7.1.5 Frostscythe Machine Gun Rotation

[Hctaz]

What exactly was the glitch to RE/RA?

Something to do with a beta element not changed where taking RA would make RE more effective or something?

[Clash the DK]

At the risk of taking the bait from a troll, you are missing out on rime procs from obliterate (Using obliterate has some indirect mastery benefit due to it proccing rime, which is frost damage), which hits hard in itself and doesnt need to crit to be good. FsC on single target you are just gambling. You also lose RP generation from Overpowered trait, and completely lose out on your tier set bonus.

Join me on a m+ and i'll smash you on trash and bosses; I don't use frostscythe.

And you also realize that you use many more Frostscythes in this rotation compared to Obliterates in a normal rotation. Now realize how that affects the chemistry between Icecap, Pillar of Frost and the Legendary Bracers. That's 35% more damage to almost all of your damage output happening much more often.

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What exactly was the glitch to RE/RA?

Something to do with a beta element not changed where taking RA would make RE more effective or something?

Basically, when taking RA you would gain a 2% chance per RP spent to proc RE. And without RA selected, then the percentage dropped to 1%.
That's a pretty significant bug. That also better explains the huge difference we had between RA and the other two choices at the time.

[Deleted]

It's a well known fact that Frostscythe doesn't sim correctly.

that is false

[Thorbalt]

Can you link your character so that I can see more details. And what was the average dps of the two rotations for you exactly?

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It's a well known fact that Frostscythe doesn't sim correctly. This has even been stated in this very thread twice already. So please stop with the trolling.

the stench of desperation in this is pathetic at this point. FS is not an ability that is hard to sim, it either deals normal damage or crit damage, it just has a different crit mod than almost every other ability in game. Stop using that pathetic excuse for why your sims accurate damage is so much lower than the standard oblit build. We KNOW FS is fantastic for 2+, just like we KNOW its damage is pathetic on ST (you know, bosses). Its fine if you enjoy the playstyle, and you should play what you like the best, world be damned. But for gods sake STOP telling everyone that they are wrong when their own experience and all the sims around prove otherwise EVERY TIME

[Clash the DK]

the stench of desperation in this is pathetic at this point. FS is not an ability that is hard to sim, it either deals normal damage or crit damage, it just has a different crit mod than almost every other ability in game. Stop using that pathetic excuse for why your sims accurate damage is so much lower than the standard oblit build. We KNOW FS is fantastic for 2+, just like we KNOW its damage is pathetic on ST (you know, bosses). Its fine if you enjoy the playstyle, and you should play what you like the best, world be damned. But for gods sake STOP telling everyone that they are wrong when their own experience and all the sims around prove otherwise EVERY TIME

I was referring to the Frostscythe centric rotation, not the actual ability. Would you like to add anything else to the discussion?

[Thorbalt]

I was referring to the Frostscythe centric rotation, not the actual ability. Would you like to add anything else to the discussion?

Only one last thing. Stop "forgetting" how much our weapon traits synergise with oblit and HB. unless something comes along to boost FS itself in our weapon, not only will FSMG never be single target viable, its going to get FAR worse in 7.2 when the 4th level of each trait is added, on top of the relics that can already boost oblit to obscene levels of awesomesauce

[Deleted]

I was referring to the Frostscythe centric rotation, not the actual ability.

it's not any different from the regular obliterate centric rotation other than the fact that you use frostscythe instead and there is absolutely nothing difficult to sim about it
why don't you just show the ingame dummy results along with a /simc gear export so that we can see for ourselves whether or not the sim is wrong (it's not)

[Exotath]

What build is "memestorm"? 223XX31?

I believe I tried that in a M+ this week and found it did some nice balanced dps. I may have used murderous efficiency though can't remember.

[Amalkatrazz]

I mentioned our T19 in my first post. And while I do think we will probably be using a standard Obliterate rotation once we gain some Tier gear, the power gained will come at a cost. Frozen Pulse up-time will suffer with our Tier set. And if we become GCD capped, then Haste could take a dip in value. The Frostscythe rotation doesn't suffer from any of those potential problems. And frankly, it just scales incredibly well with all secondary stats. Nothing is ever as clear as it seems.

Frostscythe was absolutely used more than just M+ prior to 7.1.5. It wasn't until Obliterate and Howling Blast were buffed twice before it was stamped out. Not to mention the RA/RE bug which may or may not have been introduced at the same time. Until that point, Frostscythe was our highest damage rotation for all content.

Now here we are. A new patch. And they decided not to buff Obliterate for this cycle. Instead they are relying on our Tier bonuses to prop up the standard rotation. Maybe that works. Maybe that doesn't. But in the meantime, Frostscythe is viable.

Once we gain the tier, I bet the standard OBRA MG build will use Freezing Fog instead of FP. And haste won't ever dip in value since they 'fixed' the RA-related bug that produced a lot of extra runes; as such, haste is currently a critical stat for MG and will stay so because the NH gear doesn't offer too much haste to overcap it.

As for the pre-7.1 use of Frostscythe, well, it wasn't until the 7.1 buffs to Frost that the spec was any popular; prior to those buffs, you would use Frostscythe in all situations just to be the slightly-above-tanks bottom DPS, so that's not even relevant for the discussion.

[Deleted]

What build is "memestorm"? 223XX31?

3133231 to maximize the value of the orange helmet
don't know how well it works without it since it goes all-in on rime procs

e: i see you got the helmet
here's the relevant part of the APL (the "core" rotation)

actions+=/remorseless_winter,if=rune>2
actions+=/howling_blast,if=buff.rime.react&buff.remorseless_winter.up|(buff.rime.react&buff.killing_machine.react&rune>1)
actions+=/obliteration,if=rune>1&buff.remorseless_winter.up
actions+=/frost_strike,if=runic_power>80
actions+=/obliterate,if=buff.remorseless_winter.up|buff.killing_machine.react|rune>3
actions+=/frost_strike

give it a try
it's very simple but very effective and will be outperforming classic OBRA by a lot with NH 2pc (even more with 4pc)
probably the best us people without rings and belts can get out of breathless frost

[Exotath]

3133231 to maximize the value of the orange helmet
don't know how well it works without it since it goes all-in on rime procs

Cheers man, I have the helm so I will need to give this a try.

[Yhcti]

So how does this build compare to specs like fury, havoc, ret etc... Is it on par? Behind? I guess with leg pants having fury every 2m30 is going to be amazing in m+, I'm seeing a lot of demonic build dhs destroying m+ though and rarely see any dks.. can we just not keep up?

[Exotath]

3133231 to maximize the value of the orange helmet
don't know how well it works without it since it goes all-in on rime procs

e: i see you got the helmet
here's the relevant part of the APL (the "core" rotation)

actions+=/remorseless_winter,if=rune>2
actions+=/howling_blast,if=buff.rime.react&buff.remorseless_winter.up|(buff.rime.react&buff.killing_machine.react&rune>1)
actions+=/obliteration,if=rune>1&buff.remorseless_winter.up
actions+=/frost_strike,if=runic_power>80
actions+=/obliterate,if=buff.remorseless_winter.up|buff.killing_machine.react|rune>3
actions+=/frost_strike

give it a try
it's very simple but very effective and will be outperforming classic OBRA by a lot with NH 2pc (even more with 4pc)
probably the best us people without rings and belts can get out of breathless frost

Even better! Thank you for this.

[Deleted]

Reading this sporting my sephuz,cloak and boots I wanna cut myself..

[Demeisen]

Can you link your character so that I can see more details. And what was the average dps of the two rotations for you exactly?

Here's the crit/mastery gear I used for the tests:

head=,id=139058,bonus_id=3415/1552/3337
neck=,id=141696,enchant_id=5439,bonus_id=1805/41/1512/3337
shoulder=,id=137524,enchant_id=5899,bonus_id=3417/1527/3337
back=,id=142412,enchant_id=5434,bonus_id=3468/1492
chest=,id=142123,bonus_id=3452/1502/3337
shirt=,id=138385
wrist=,id=132458,bonus_id=1811/3458
hands=,id=142435,bonus_id=3468/1492
waist=,id=137523,bonus_id=3418/1532/3337
legs=,id=137342,bonus_id=3412/1537/3337
feet=,id=132443,bonus_id=1811/3458
finger1=,id=139237,enchant_id=5428,bonus_id=1805/1808/1487,gem_id=130220
finger2=,id=138220,enchant_id=5428,bonus_id=1805/1808/1497/3336,gem_id=130220
trinket1=,id=142167,bonus_id=3453/1482/3336
trinket2=,id=141482,bonus_id=1808/1477/3336,gem_id=130246
main_hand=,id=128292,enchant_id=3370,bonus_id=717,relic_id=3415:1512:3336/3416:1517:3336/3509:1537:3337,gem_id=137308/133684/133683/0
off_hand=,id=128293,enchant_id=3368,relic_id=0/0,gem_id=0/0/0/0

Average on my dummy tests was ~410k for RA and ~380k for FSc.

[Exotath]

3133231 to maximize the value of the orange helmet
don't know how well it works without it since it goes all-in on rime procs

e: i see you got the helmet
here's the relevant part of the APL (the "core" rotation)

actions+=/remorseless_winter,if=rune>2
actions+=/howling_blast,if=buff.rime.react&buff.remorseless_winter.up|(buff.rime.react&buff.killing_machine.react&rune>1)
actions+=/obliteration,if=rune>1&buff.remorseless_winter.up
actions+=/frost_strike,if=runic_power>80
actions+=/obliterate,if=buff.remorseless_winter.up|buff.killing_machine.react|rune>3
actions+=/frost_strike

give it a try
it's very simple but very effective and will be outperforming classic OBRA by a lot with NH 2pc (even more with 4pc)
probably the best us people without rings and belts can get out of breathless frost

I don't think I am getting this apl to work. Where is the proper place to paste it in?

[Deleted]

disappointing

[Exotath]

Alright well thanks anyway.

Using the sample apl with this added as well as added to my own custom profile. Yields no change.

Talents changed of course.