Sin Opener?

[LntC]

Hey guys.

What is the best opener for sin in your opinion?

im going: garrote>mut>mut>rupture>vendetta>kingsbane>5cp>vanishRupture

i have a feeling that i'm doing it wrong

i only got the leendary belt

[Demorgoth]

My opener with Vigor is:

Stealth > Garrote > Mut > Rupture > Mut > Vendetta (full energy) > Mut (hopefully at 5 CP) > Vanished Rupture > Mut (hopefully get 3 or 4 CP) > Envenom > Kingsbane

and you are on your merry way.

[kidstechno]

I'm using:
1) Garrote out of Stealth
2) Envenom to build AP stacks
3) Mut x2 (hopefully to get full CPs)
4) Vanish
5) Rupture
6) Vendetta
7) Kingsbane
8) Mut until 4-5 CP then Envenom and try to keep Envenom rolling throughout KB/Vendetta

[Elyzibeth]

What has been working pretty well for me is:

prepot>garrote>rupture>mut>mut>vanish+rupture>vendetta>kingsbane>envenom>mut/envenom spam

[Deleted]

What has been working pretty well for me is:

prepot>garrote>rupture>mut>mut>vanish+rupture>vendetta>kingsbane>envenom>mut/envenom spam

This is the right one

[Elyzibeth]

Thinking about it, since I have the new crit shoulders I may give an opener like this since the crit guarantees how many combo points I'll earn with every attack.

garrote (1CP) (6 seconds of crit starts)
mutilate (5cp)
envenom (0cp) [build AP stacks faster and will have SOT buff up for the kingsbane hit]
mutilate (4cp)
kingsbane (5cp)
vanish+rupture (0cp) (6 seconds of crit starts again)
Vendetta
mutilate (4cp)
envenom (0cp)
mutilate (4cp)
envenom (0cp)

[LntC]

Thanky you so far for the reply's

One more question. ep still the way to go or do wen run mp now ?

[Elyzibeth]

It probably depends on your gear. Right now a lot of us have gone MP/vigor/AP. With that, Mastery is king, you stack mastery, mastery and more mastery. I think EP/vigor/EX is completely viable too, but less mastery and more crit vers.

I'd suggest you go sim your characters setup on AMR and see what talents perform the best for you.

[shaunika123]

Thanky you so far for the reply's

One more question. ep still the way to go or do wen run mp now ?

MP is generally better unless you have really low mastery and really high crit

[Oscassey]

I go with what http://roguedpsguide.com/stjerns-legion-rogue-overview/ suggests for the poison build.

Garrote -> Envenom-> Mutilate -> Rupture * -> Mutilate to 5 combo points -> Vanish -> Rupture -> Kingsbane -> Keep dots up (If Garrote comes off cd, pop it) -> Mutilate + Envenom spam for Envenom uptime.
* Once you get energy starved, pop Vendetta for the full energy bar. [Trait number 5, if you follow my path]

A first Rupture is important before the Vanish Rupture to get those extra seconds for re-applying a DoT.

(he also has a opener for people playing with Exsanguinate)

[Symphonic]

Thinking about it, since I have the new crit shoulders I may give an opener like this since the crit guarantees how many combo points I'll earn with every attack.

garrote (1CP) (6 seconds of crit starts)
mutilate (5cp)
envenom (0cp) [build AP stacks faster and will have SOT buff up for the kingsbane hit]
mutilate (4cp)
kingsbane (5cp)
vanish+rupture (0cp) (6 seconds of crit starts again)
Vendetta
mutilate (4cp)
envenom (0cp)
mutilate (4cp)
envenom (0cp)

That is a lot of time without any rupture. Rupture now does the same damage regardless of combo points on it, so getting a rupture up immediately after garrote will be great (and then the rupture will be below 8 seconds when you get to 5 cp to vanish rupture). Also why kingsbane BEFORE vendetta?

Should garrote -> rupture -> mut to 5 -> vanish rupture -> vendetta mut mut kingsbane -> envenom -> keep up garrote and reapply rupture when the vanish-rupture is almost to 0.

[Elyzibeth]

Just trying to think some things through and experiment. With the shoulders giving max combo pts for every attack for 6 seconds, then 6 seconds of crit after the vanish+rupture again it "could" pay off to space the initial vanish/rupture out 5-6 seconds and to get a bunch of your kingsbane ticks as guaranteed crits. My standard opener has always been:

prepot>garrote>rupture>mut>mut>vanish+rupture>vendetta>kingsbane>envenom>mut/envenom spam

The killer with this is with the shoulders it throws combo points out the window and clips 2 of the 6 seconds of the crit bonus of the shoulders off with the new vanish

prepot>garrote(1cp)>rupture>mut(4cp)>mut(8cp)>vanish+rupture>vendetta>kingsbane>envenom>mu t/envenom spam


Maybe
prepot>garrote(1cp)>mut(5cp)>rupture(0cp)>mut(4cp)>kingsbane(5cp)>vanish+rupture(0cp-starts 6 sec of crit again)>vendetta>mut(4cp)>envenom>mut/envenom spam

I'm really just thinking out loud here more than anything, anyone without the shoulders, I wouldn't even recommend looking at this stuff.

- - - Updated - - -

Turns out that Subterfuge now sims ~5k+ higher than nightstaiker for me. SO problem solved

[VicenteRangel]

you're not rupturing early and missing out on all those crits, you basically have bota for like 12 seconds if you do it right.

- - - Updated - - -

you want to mut env then kingsbane mut/env spam, that way as soon as it's casted it's already proc'ing

[jdfrost]

What has been working pretty well for me is:

prepot>garrote>rupture>mut>mut>vanish+rupture>vendetta>kingsbane>envenom>mut/envenom spam

Same thing, Best rotation I found.

[Elyzibeth]

Interestingly enough I've been talking to another guy in the rogue B.net forums that has the shoulders. We both sim slightly higher dps on AMR using subterfuge over nightstalker. He had the idea since he doesn't need to vanish/rupture he should fish for poison bomb procs straight out of the opener since poison bombs give us huge dps boosts. I've looked at his logs and he pulls damn good numbers and has hit 2million on openers several times (this is WITHOUT the belt). I'm planning to test it a little tonight.

His opener:

[-------6 sec of crit from shoulders----------] [-----6 sec of crit from shoulders again--------]
garrote>mut>rupture>mut>envenom>mut> vendetta>kingsbane/vanish>envenom>mut>envenom>mut>envenom>mut

With this opener, and not needing to vanish+rupture. we get guaranteed 4 pts mutilates in the crit windows. so on pull the garrote/mut gives him a nice long 5 point rupture that he can now complete the rest of the opener without having to refresh it. The rest of the mut/envenoms are 4/5 pt envenom crits, With the back to back envenoms, if you fish a psn bomb out your damage sky rockets.