ret relic and gear question

[Lulalula]

hello i have 2 questions if someone can answer that would be great.
so first off i have 3 AW relic in my weapon an 900/850/870. anyways i just got an 875 DS relic i was wondering if i should replace that 850?
and my second question is i have the 4 set bonus but it kinda messed around with my stats so now i have 25% crit 23% haste 36% mastery and 9% vers so i was wondering if i should just use the 2 set piece and use other off set with better stats? the gear are around the same ilvl so i'm not sure how much the 4 set is worth. oh and simcraft wouldn't work for me for some reason it wouldn't start up so...yeah cant sim my character

[AoinoMiku]

hello i have 2 questions if someone can answer that would be great.
so first off i have 3 AW relic in my weapon an 900/850/870. anyways i just got an 875 DS relic i was wondering if i should replace that 850?
and my second question is i have the 4 set bonus but it kinda messed around with my stats so now i have 25% crit 23% haste 36% mastery and 9% vers so i was wondering if i should just use the 2 set piece and use other off set with better stats? the gear are around the same ilvl so i'm not sure how much the 4 set is worth. oh and simcraft wouldn't work for me for some reason it wouldn't start up so...yeah cant sim my character

http://imgur.com/a/qsrSh
try using this to judge the relics but the answer is yes
u should get the 4 set and try to mess around with the other gear

[Caramuru]

4 set for me was about a 30k dps increases but that might vary based on what stats you gain with the offset pieces.
Also, the AW relic should only be replaced by a TV relic and only if it's 20+ levels. BOJ relics are close behind but those lag behind TV.

[AoinoMiku]

4 set for me was about a 30k dps increases but that might vary based on what stats you gain with the offset pieces.
Also, the AW relic should only be replaced by a TV relic and only if it's 20+ levels. BOJ relics are close behind but those lag behind TV.

AW relic should always be replaced if the other relic is a 25 ilvl upgrade

[Caramuru]

AW relic should always be replaced if the other relic is a 25 ilvl upgrade

Not if that relic has a +healing on FoL haha

[Deleted]

AW relic should always be replaced if the other relic is a 25 ilvl upgrade

It is a good rule of thumb but not always true I am myself using an 875 aw relic even though I got a 900 bop one but after checking with simcraft swapping relics would be a small dps decrease even with the +25 ilevels

[Lulalula]

thanks guys! i guess ill replace it. using a divine storm relic wouldn't do much for my single target but ilvl increase would be nice

[TEHPALLYTANK]

AW relic should always be replaced if the other relic is a 25 ilvl upgrade

Nope, trait of the replacement relic is still a factor.

[AoinoMiku]

Nope, trait of the replacement relic is still a factor.

If it is 25ilvl it is always an upgrade
if it is 20ilvl might or not be depending on the trait yeah

- - - Updated - - -

If u have a Crusade build (Crusade legendaries, trinkets) yeah might be different
most of the cases it will always be an upgrade

[TEHPALLYTANK]

If u have a Crusade build (Crusade legendaries, trinkets) yeah might be different
most of the cases it will always be an upgrade

If you aren't using a Crusade build then you're not playing Ret in instanced PvE, in which case it literally doesn't matter what your relic traits are as they're disabled in instanced PvP.

[Wutangrza]

At 25 ilvls, after the crusade nerf, any relic is better, but a useless one is close (~23 ilvls).

Basically, a 0 DPS trait is worth 0 ilvls, WotA is ~23, BoJ is around 10, TV is also around 10, the others are 5 or less. (These numbers can be found in the ret Discord)

I do think people are significantly undervaluing the DS relics though. I'd probably value a DS relic ahead of a TV relic though to be honest. On almost any fight, DS damage will be at least equal to TV damage, and on a lot of fights, DS damage will be double TV damage. This is only more true for M+ content overall damage.

Just go through the list:

Skorpyon: DS doing more than double TV's damage. = DS relic >> TV.
Chronomatic: TV doing double DS damage. = DS relic > TV.
Trilliax: Only TV at least on heroic or less. = DS relic useless.
Spellblade: TV = DS damage = DS relic > TV.
Tich: DS doing 4x TV damage. = DS relic >> TV.
Krosus: Mostly TV. = TV relic >> DS relic.
Star: Mostly TV. = TV relic >> DS relic.
Botanist: DS doing double TV. = DS relic >> TV.
Elisande: DS = TV. = DS relic > TV.
Guldan: DS = TV. = DS relic > TV.

Now consider that the DS trait increases DS damage by 5% compared to the 2% the TV relic gives you. Overall, the DS relic will be better, but the downside is that it's a 0 DPS gain on pure ST (though there are admittedly very few pure ST fights).

The TL;DR: is that the DS trait ought to at least be thought of as in the same ballpark as the TV relic, and in the vast majority of cases, it's actually better than the TV relic.

[Deleted]

Some addition to above post - if we are talking strictly mythic, DS relic gets tons of value on hardest bosses.

EZ one:
Skorpyon M: u can go no relics.

Chronomatic M: DS Is above everything outside WotA - lower if u have heavy cleave setup, higher if ur raid lacks it. DS=WotA>>TV

Trilliax M: Low DS value, some storms on adds. TV>>>DS


Medium diff bosses:

Spellblade M: I would say DS=WotA>>>TV here, alot of storms and adds are crucial dps target, more than single target dmg.

Tich M: Depends of tactic, Tv for boss dps, DS helps on bats alot. Still TV>DS

Krosus M: Mostly TV, so TV>>>DS

Botanist M: TV>>>DS Almost pure single target with rare fire sphere or 2 melee adds for 4sec cleave.


Wall bosses:

Star M: TV>>>>DS Almost 0 value in DS relic. Maybe 1-2 storms on voidlings p3 if too many and to build up crusade stacks when u run from boss.

Elisande M: TV=DS TV 70% DS 30% dmg from spenders, so both relics are about to equal in value same ilvl here.

Guldan M: DS>WotA>>>> TV 50% TV 50%DS in spenders. Aoe dps is more important than single cause eyes and parasites need to be killed asap or u wipe.