No Vengeance nerf in the hotfixes?? Are they kidding?

[Gorsameth]

In under 2min? Log pls...
Our dps have all orange rankings and fight was 2:49

My guild is to scrub to do under 2 min but here
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done
2:34 with 'bad' dps

2:49 with all dps on orange rankings? good joke.

[Tech614]

My guild is to scrub to do under 2 min but here
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done
2:34 with 'bad' dps

2:49 with all dps on orange rankings? good joke.

Do I have to be captain obvious and point out rankings mean jack shit for kill speed on skorp?

[Deleted]

no reason mythic skorp shouldn't die in under 2 minutes.

Only 47 guilds(with public logs) downed skorp under 2 minutes most of them cutting down to 1 tank and 1 or 2 healers, what you saying dude. Only 1% of the guilds (or less) doing under 2 minutes kills and you say every guild should do it, or they are scrubs? eksdee.

OT: the nerf will make the dh go to the medium table on the tank dmg, while still having not the best defensive tools. Another meh tier for DH it seems.

[Socialhealer]

Only 47 guilds(with public logs) downed skorp under 2 minutes most of them cutting down to 1 tank and 1 or 2 healers, what you saying dude. Only 1% of the guilds (or less) doing under 2 minutes kills and you say every guild should do it, or they are scrubs? eksdee.

OT: the nerf will make the dh go to the medium table on the tank dmg, while still having not the best defensive tools. Another meh tier for DH it seems.

yeh my guild that used to be world 300~ is currently 700+ lost over half it's roster due to real life and other things, killed it 1:56.

guess everyone else is going big for that 6 million aoe dps that proves how skillful a player you are padding it hard, when it doesn't even count for all star ranks.

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In under 2min? Log pls...
Our dps have all orange rankings and fight was 2:49

yeh all orange = shit aoe padding, spec single target watch your kill time drop by a minute.

[Tech614]

OT: the nerf will make the dh go to the medium table on the tank dmg,

LOL no.

VDH was ahead by a hell of a lot more then this nerf, they're still going to be trouncing all other tank specs in DPS if going all out for it.

With the nerf SB will still be hitting for 800k-3mil+ depending on AP, Crits and Fiery Demise being up. It's still going to hit like an absolute truck.

I really would love to hear what tank specs you think are going to pass them up in DPS to make them middle of the pack. Prot Pal may go back to bursting harder but that will be about it, their sustained dps is shit and lowest among all tank specs so 30 seconds into the fight VDH will be laughing at them.

[Deleted]

Only 33 % nerf on Spirit Bomb and nothing on Fracture, sigh what is Blizzard even doing at this point?

[Deleted]

LOL no.

VDH was ahead by a hell of a lot more then this nerf, they're still going to be trouncing all other tank specs in DPS if going all out for it.

With the nerf SB will still be hitting for 800k-3mil+ depending on AP, Crits and Fiery Demise being up. It's still going to hit like an absolute truck.

I really would love to hear what tank specs you think are going to pass them up in DPS to make them middle of the pack. Prot Pal may go back to bursting harder but that will be about it, their sustained dps is shit and lowest among all tank specs so 30 seconds into the fight VDH will be laughing at them.

Making some calculations, a 95th percentile DH ST will lose ~40k DPS overall (http://imgur.com/ziiPJTo). There are lots of classes that are behind vdh by only 50-60k; and next tier 20 will have damage bonus for some classes too (DK and Pally mainly). Take also on account people is maximizing damage with VDhs because content is now trivialized and they hardly have ~10% uptime on demon spikes (if any), good luck having that uptime on ToS where bosses hit for 3-4 million (http://imgur.com/S0NjLCy) without active mitigation.

So we have a class doing about 50-60k dps more than others (post nerf) that will not receive any damage-enhance with the tier set, that need to sacrifice some of his actual damage for survivability; and on the other hands we have contenders that have to sacrifice no damage for survivability and will receive some damage enhances with their tier set.

The order on damage on PROGRESSION (no trivial content) will be warrior>druid>DH>DK>Pally>BM, medium of all the tanks. maybe dh> druid, time will speak for this, but taking in acount they will be casting about 5 times more demon spikes than now, they wont have that much souls to work with, resulting in less dmg overall.

All this talking about ST damage, ToS is mainly a ST raid.

[Tech614]

Making some calculations, a 95th percentile DH ST will lose ~40k DPS overall (http://imgur.com/ziiPJTo). There are lots of classes that are behind vdh by only 50-60k; and next tier 20 will have damage bonus for some classes too (DK and Pally mainly). Take also on account people is maximizing damage with VDhs because content is now trivialized and they hardly have ~10% uptime on demon spikes (if any), good luck having that uptime on ToS where bosses hit for 3-4 million (http://imgur.com/S0NjLCy) without active mitigation.

So we have a class doing about 50-60k dps more than others (post nerf) that will not receive any damage-enhance with the tier set, that need to sacrifice some of his actual damage for survivability; and on the other hands we have contenders that have to sacrifice no damage for survivability and will receive some damage enhances with their tier set.

The order on damage on PROGRESSION (no trivial content) will be warrior>druid>DH>DK>Pally>BM, medium of all the tanks. maybe dh> druid, time will speak for this, but taking in acount they will be casting about 5 times more demon spikes than now, they wont have that much souls to work with, resulting in less dmg overall.

All this talking about ST damage, ToS is mainly a ST raid.

LOL dude still thinks wars and druids can out dps VDH. Even with the nerf, even with maintain max up time on DS they're going to be behind by 100k+. Right now even with those still they're behind by 150k+.

It's just as content becomes more trivial the gap gets even further. Also hilarious where the dude has monks at, apparently you missed the memo when a 25% increase to keg smash came to town along with 3x face palm relics. They are ahead of everyone but VDH and Prot War.

You don't seem to be that up to date on your overall tank knowledge.

[Deleted]

LOL dude still thinks wars and druids can out dps VDH. Even with the nerf, even with maintain max up time on DS they're going to be behind by 100k+. Right now even with those still they're behind by 150k+.

It's just as content becomes more trivial the gap gets even further. Also hilarious where the dude has monks at, apparently you missed the memo when a 25% increase to keg smash came to town along with 3x face palm relics. They are ahead of everyone but VDH and Prot War.

You don't seem to be that up to date on your overall tank knowledge.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...on=3&boss=1842
At 95% percentile brewmasters are behind everything but pally (which i already explained is receiving DMG buffs via tier set). I am taking Krosus as an example, a mostly ST boss. VDH on this log is casting 89 fractures (178 souls, ~36 charged spirit bombs, ~4000 pain). Also he casts demon spikes only 7 times (140 pain), on a progress fight he will need a 50-60% uptime on demon spikes (35-42 spikes; 700-840 pain, lets say 770 pain on average). Thats a total of 630 pain less = 14 less fractures (8.8M less damage) and ~5,5 less spirit bombs (11,77M less damage). He will loss 19 million damage, almost 40k dps. And that before the nerfs. Then you just apply the nerf of ~50k dmg and voila, DH magically lost almost 100k dmg out of nerfs and progression. Also, im not taking in account legendaries (most of them are running cinidaria and ahb, not suited for progression) and trinkets (again, good luck doing progression with damage-oriented trinkets on a raid where bosses hit for tons. And on top of that, Krosus favors DHs a lot cause they can mantain the % agility from their magical CD almost every time, ToS will have less magic damage, and less constant.

[Tech614]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...on=3&boss=1842
At 95% percentile brewmasters are behind everything but pally (which i already explained is receiving DMG buffs via tier set). I am taking Krosus as an example, a mostly ST boss. VDH on this log is casting 89 fractures (178 souls, ~36 charged spirit bombs, ~4000 pain). Also he casts demon spikes only 7 times (140 pain), on a progress fight he will need a 50-60% uptime on demon spikes (35-42 spikes; 700-840 pain, lets say 770 pain on average). Thats a total of 630 pain less = 14 less fractures (8.8M less damage) and ~5,5 less spirit bombs (11,77M less damage). He will loss 19 million damage, almost 40k dps. And that before the nerfs. Then you just apply the nerf of ~50k dmg and voila, DH magically lost almost 100k dmg out of nerfs and progression. Also, im not taking in account legendaries (most of them are running cinidaria and ahb, not suited for progression) and trinkets (again, good luck doing progression with damage-oriented trinkets on a raid where bosses hit for tons. And on top of that, Krosus favors DHs a lot cause they can mantain the % agility from their magical CD almost every time, ToS will have less magic damage, and less constant.

Once again, not realizing a legendary that increases keg smash damage by 25% just came into existence and comparing logs of most monks who don't have it yet.

Once again proving, you don't seem that up to date on your tank knowledge.

A monk with 3x facepalm relics(which they have no reason to NOT have outside of being too lazy to farm them) and the kegsmash leg(which once acquired should always be on) is going to be ahead of everyone but prot war and VDH.

[Merlunie]

What does this have to do with anything, it's a tank, it shouldn't be doing that much dmg. Who cares how it compares to his other raiders, look at the raw numbers.

He's padding on adds. That's what it has to do with it.

[Emerald Archer]

He's padding on adds. That's what it has to do with it.

The issue is the dmg on ST fights.. >.>

[Deleted]

Once again, not realizing a legendary that increases keg smash damage by 25% just came into existence and comparing logs of most monks who don't have it yet.

Once again proving, you don't seem that up to date on your tank knowledge.

A monk with 3x facepalm relics(which they have no reason to NOT have outside of being too lazy to farm them) and the kegsmash leg(which once acquired should always be on) is going to be ahead of everyone but prot war and VDH.

I have a monk on my raid that has that lego (other leggo being chest).
That said monk has 3x facepalm relics.
We both do 95%+ percentiles.
I do more ST damage than him, only by a small amount, but still more. Blood DK with shoulders/trinket.
Where is your god now? :|

[VarianceWoW]

PSA:

Vengeance can ignore survivability to deal more damage. They will not be doing that kind of damage on progression. Anyone who doesn't understand this is a salty guardian druid.

Enjoy your well deserved nerfs.

Lol are there actually guardian druids out there upset at the nerfs? As soon as I read them 2 months ago I said yep that seems fair, mained guardian all of NH.

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he can take on adds and so on. Do you really wanna tell me that you think its normal for ANY tank to out dps a regular dps? If you can have 3 tanks, 2 for boss and one for adds that will do more dps than proper dps you would take it. Do you think its normal for 5 tanks to do M+ 19?

Tanks actually regularly out DPS some classes in mythic+ on overall damage, and I am talking about 915+ DPS who parse in the 80-100th percentile.

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Lol, 1st boss in NH isnt last boss in NH, or 9th!!! I can do 3m so what does your comment have to do with what i said!?



Have you seen the rankings? We are not talking about average players, we are talking about players that are clearing NH mythic! No tank should out dps any mythic raider that has killed current end boss for this tier, PERIOD!

Well we killed the end boss 2.5 months ago.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done
bloods: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...one&target=308
bats: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...one&target=310
boss damage: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ngs&source=153

Very little padding from any of our raid, classes near the top of blood damage are all getting single target increases doing so. My blood damage as a bear also goes to mitigation in thrash stacks as well as thrash ST damage to the boss so its uncontrollable cleave. Damage to bats is anything but padding as killing more bats faster makes it easier for the raid to get orbs and not die. All the DPS involved regularly parse in the 75th-100th percentile on many fights. Tich is probably a poor example due to fight design but as I have shown this is not padding we aren't going for parses we are doing the fight in an effecient manner that ends up with a fast boss kill. If I was going for parses I would be running Cindaria to pad on bloods above 90%, I am not. I agree tanks shouldn't regularly out DPS good mythic raiders who clear cutting edge but it does happen on certain fights, thats my only point.

[Tech614]

I have a monk on my raid that has that lego (other leggo being chest).
That said monk has 3x facepalm relics.
We both do 95%+ percentiles.
I do more ST damage than him, only by a small amount, but still more. Blood DK with shoulders/trinket.
Where is your god now? :|

Cool story, link the logs bro. Since you want to talk about percentiles link them up.

[Tech614]

I have a monk on my raid that has that lego (other leggo being chest).
That said monk has 3x facepalm relics.
We both do 95%+ percentiles.
I do more ST damage than him, only by a small amount, but still more. Blood DK with shoulders/trinket.
Where is your god now? :|

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...90&class=Tanks

Sorry what where you telling me about that super pro Blood DK dps again?

You have to go down to the 40th percentile to find blood ahead of monk, and they never pass VDH.

[Deleted]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...90&class=Tanks

Sorry what where you telling me about that super pro Blood DK dps again?

You have to go down to the 40th percentile to find blood ahead of monk, and they never pass VDH.

Week 1 with no tier? ok x)
http://imgur.com/Pr287l9 30k bellow without tier and defensive trinkets (i was running 900 deck+mistress trinket 915 vs memento 890+goblet 895 on the monk). Surely monks will have a chance after our main ST attack cost 5 less runic (i used 51 death strikes on that fight, or 2040 RP, with tier it would go up to 58, 4.8M more damage) AND 2500 (arround 5% more dmg) free perma versa for free. Also, i am 3 points of concordance bellow him because this is my split raid alt.
Also heroic week LUL we already overgear heroic. Logs are hidden on my guild FYI that's why i dont link shit basically.

[satimy]

Over nerfed as usual

[Grobovshik]

I had more fun prior 7.2.5 with VDH. Bomb gameplay is aids.