Vulnerable and Patient Sniper

[merlin2oo2]

So, I played MM with Sidewinders back in EN, and really enjoyed it. Then I switched to BM for Nighthold after Sidewinders was changed, since the spec was doing pretty well and I found it more enjoyable than either the Meme or Trick Shot MM builds. Now for Tomb of Sargeras, it seems like MM has a fairly significant advantage over BM, so I'm giving MM another try. I can't stand Explosive Shot, so I'm going with the Trick Shot build.

My question is, how critical is Patient Sniper in the grand scheme of things? With the increased proc chance for Marking Targets, I have no problem making sure that nearly all of my Aimed Shots occur during Vulnerable. However, I am struggling with trying to time my Aimed Shots to make the most of the increased damage towards the end of the Vulnerable window. (Yes, I know there's an addon to help with this, but I'm still having some difficulty). If my execution isn't perfect (or near perfect), is it a significant DPS loss? Is it always worth letting Vulnerable expire before reapplying it? Having all these extra Marking Targets procs go to waste feels counter-intuitive.

I am casting Aimed Shot while Vulnerable is up, it's just not always coinciding with the very end of the Vulnerable window. If that's the case, should I just go back to BM or is MM still likely to be better? My group raids Heroic and dabbles in Mythic where possible.

[Krunkus]

Hey mate,

First of all I don't think MM will have that much of an advantage over BM, so if you enjoy BM I wouldn't change just yet. See how it plays out.

As for your question, timing vulnerable isn't nearly as important as it was with the newest changes. They buffed all shots and nurfed vulnerable so casting aimed shot inside vulnerable window is still preferable but not as mandatory. You won't need to worry about it.

[Tr0xa]

Sorry for offtop but I rerolled from Frost DK to MM Hunter and I've got follwoing question - in AOE fights we should spam Multi Shot till Marked Traget proc and after MT proc use it and AS x 2??? I checked Icy-Veins, Wowhead, YT and still have no idea what is more important

[Okatan]

So, I played MM with Sidewinders back in EN, and really enjoyed it. Then I switched to BM for Nighthold after Sidewinders was changed, since the spec was doing pretty well and I found it more enjoyable than either the Meme or Trick Shot MM builds. Now for Tomb of Sargeras, it seems like MM has a fairly significant advantage over BM, so I'm giving MM another try. I can't stand Explosive Shot, so I'm going with the Trick Shot build.

My question is, how critical is Patient Sniper in the grand scheme of things? With the increased proc chance for Marking Targets, I have no problem making sure that nearly all of my Aimed Shots occur during Vulnerable. However, I am struggling with trying to time my Aimed Shots to make the most of the increased damage towards the end of the Vulnerable window. (Yes, I know there's an addon to help with this, but I'm still having some difficulty). If my execution isn't perfect (or near perfect), is it a significant DPS loss? Is it always worth letting Vulnerable expire before reapplying it? Having all these extra Marking Targets procs go to waste feels counter-intuitive.

I am casting Aimed Shot while Vulnerable is up, it's just not always coinciding with the very end of the Vulnerable window. If that's the case, should I just go back to BM or is MM still likely to be better? My group raids Heroic and dabbles in Mythic where possible.

If you do it like this you won't have any problems with casting 2 Aimed Shots in the last few seconds of vulnerability (assuming you dumped all your focus in Trueshot window): Get back to 75ish focus --> Marked Shot --> 1 Arcane Shot --> 2 Aimed Shots --> 2 Arcane Shots --> rinse and repeat.

When Windburst is off cd: Windburst --> 3 Arcane Shots --> 2 Aimed Shots --> 2 Arcane Shots --> back to notmal rotation.

But like Krunkus said, it's not important as it was before.

Sorry for offtop but I rerolled from Frost DK to MM Hunter and I've got follwoing question - in AOE fights we should spam Multi Shot till Marked Traget proc and after MT proc use it and AS x 2??? I checked Icy-Veins, Wowhead, YT and still have no idea what is more important

You shouldn't spam Multi Shot while waiting for a proc. That is a waste of focus. You should cast Aimed Shot around 95 focus.
You should just use your Marking Targets procs immedietly. If you don't have the procs, cast Aimed Shots and spam Arcane Shot to get your focus back till you got a Marking Targets proc.

[Tr0xa]

You shouldn't spam Multi Shot while waiting for a proc. That is a waste of focus. You should cast Aimed Shot around 95 focus.
You should just use your Marking Targets procs immedietly. If you don't have the procs, cast Aimed Shots and spam Arcane Shot to get your focus back till you got a Marking Targets proc.

Many thanks! I'll start doing like mentioned above.

[Nythiz]

So, I played MM with Sidewinders back in EN, and really enjoyed it. Then I switched to BM for Nighthold after Sidewinders was changed, since the spec was doing pretty well and I found it more enjoyable than either the Meme or Trick Shot MM builds. Now for Tomb of Sargeras, it seems like MM has a fairly significant advantage over BM, so I'm giving MM another try. I can't stand Explosive Shot, so I'm going with the Trick Shot build.

The significant advantage was nerfed quite a bit with the nerf to the MM tier set. It's still slightly stronger, but definitely not a 'fairly significant advantage' anymore.

My question is, how critical is Patient Sniper in the grand scheme of things? With the increased proc chance for Marking Targets, I have no problem making sure that nearly all of my Aimed Shots occur during Vulnerable. However, I am struggling with trying to time my Aimed Shots to make the most of the increased damage towards the end of the Vulnerable window. (Yes, I know there's an addon to help with this, but I'm still having some difficulty). If my execution isn't perfect (or near perfect), is it a significant DPS loss?

It's not massively critical, but it's still quite important to land those big aimed shots if you want MM to really have that advantage.
This'll be one of those cases where if you play MM good you'll probably out dps BM in ToS in single target fights and if you execute this poorly you'll be behind a well played BM hunter.

Fortunately executing it correctly really isn't that hard once you get the hang of it. When you pick Patient Sniper, you can somewhat substitute the priority rotation into a set rotation, which is:

Arcane Shot to 70-90 focus -> Marked Shot -> Arcane Shot -> Aimed Shot -> Aimed Shot -> Repeat
alternative:
Arcane Shot to 50-70 focus -> Windburst -> Arcane Shot -> Arcane Shot -> Aimed Shot -> Aimed Shot -> Repeat

Both of those rotations will get you to land your 2 aimed shots in the last few seconds of vulnerable.
This is a bit oversimplified though as the rotation will obviously change based on your haste and whether or not you have bloodlust (which generally allows an extra aimed shot); but if you think of the above as a starting point and then use your experience over time to adjust.

Is it always worth letting Vulnerable expire before reapplying it? Having all these extra Marking Targets procs go to waste feels counter-intuitive.

This is quite situation dependent. If you can still get an aimed shot in before Vulnerable ends you want to try to do that. But there are a lot of situations where reapplying vulnerable before it ends is a smart thing to do.
For example if you have some movement coming up it's smart to use marked shot as you're moving as it's instant.

I wouldn't worry too much about the marking shots procs. You generally get more procs than you can use anyway, and your focus with Trickshot is on those big aimed shot hits. Sure you might waste a proc and sure you have a slightly higher chance to get a gap in your vulnerable uptime, but that's worth the tradeoff for those big aimed shot hits.

There are basically 2 builds for MM:
- Meme-spec with Explosive Shot and Piercing Shot. This spec maximizes damage from marked shot with this build you focus on burning through all your marked shots as you get them asap.
- Trick Shot build, which focuses on doing max damage with aimed shot. Marked Shots are simply a means to an end; you want to get those big aimed shots out.
Reapplying Vulnerable simply wastes trades high aimed shot damage for low aimed shot damage.
NOTE: In case of being able to hit more targets the priorities shift a bit.

I am casting Aimed Shot while Vulnerable is up, it's just not always coinciding with the very end of the Vulnerable window. If that's the case, should I just go back to BM or is MM still likely to be better? My group raids Heroic and dabbles in Mythic where possible.

Again, a well played BM spec will be better than a poorly played MM spec. The sim results are assuming you play the spec to near perfection.
That said, you're likely to see better results with MM even if you mess up a few times.

Sorry for offtop but I rerolled from Frost DK to MM Hunter and I've got follwoing question - in AOE fights we should spam Multi Shot till Marked Traget proc and after MT proc use it and AS x 2??? I checked Icy-Veins, Wowhead, YT and still have no idea what is more important

In AoE fights your main priority is to use Marked Shot as much as possible.
So when you get a marking targets proc, you want to use multi shot to mark them all and then use marked shot for the damage.

Spamming Multi Shot really isn't ideal, unless there are a LOT of adds (like 12+ targets), because it's damage is super low.

If you don't have a marking targets proc up, you'll want to use aimed shots to fill the gaps. Assuming you've already used your explosive shot and piercing shot.

So basically, spam aimed shots until you get a Marking Targets proc, then Multi shot -> Marked Shot.
Use multi shots to regen focus.
Use Windburst on cooldown, use explosive shot on cooldown, use piercing shot on cooldown (only with vuln up and 100+ focus!). For both Windburst and Piercing Shot, try to target the mob furthest away from you.

[Chickensoup23]

What add-on are you using to help with patient sniper? I use a WA and it's not great.

[Okatan]

What add-on are you using to help with patient sniper? I use a WA and it's not great.

https://wago.io/VulnerableTrackerV2 this is the most useful WA for Patient Sniper i've ever seen.

[Tr0xa]

So this addon is showing Vulnerable duration and how many Aimed Shots you can do during it? Newbie question, sorry.

[Okatan]

So this addon is showing Vulnerable duration and how many Aimed Shots you can do during it? Newbie question, sorry.

Yep. And it will warn you when you are casting an Aimed Shot if you don't have Vulnerable.

[Tr0xa]

Yep. And it will warn you when you are casting an Aimed Shot if you don't have Vulnerable.

Wooow so this is really amazing tool! Thanks! Must try this ASAP!

[Juurikkala]

I've just made Icon with TMW where I see the duration of vulnerable on a spot in my screen where it hits nicely my eyes. Seems to work well. Hardly ever use Aimed outside the Vulnerable.

[Deleted]

interesting hmm

[Deleted]

Anyone using a good focus bar? I have been using kams focusbar for a while but I dont know if im doing something wrong but it bugs out sometimes and I have to delete it and import it again.

[Chickensoup23]

Anyone using a good focus bar? I have been using kams focusbar for a while but I dont know if im doing something wrong but it bugs out sometimes and I have to delete it and import it again.

Used classmods and disable everything except the resource bar. ClassMods used to be called JSHunterBar, so yeah, it was kinda made for us. It works great and gives you breakpoints for abilities (KC as BM, Aimed as Marks, etc).

[Deleted]

Used classmods and disable everything except the resource bar. ClassMods used to be called JSHunterBar, so yeah, it was kinda made for us. It works great and gives you breakpoints for abilities (KC as BM, Aimed as Marks, etc).

Aight cool, do I need to change anything with the breakpoints or do I just disable everything except the resource bar? Can I change the breakpoints?