Are they "dumbifying" the Titans?

[Deleted]

We believed them to be. Sargeras was believed to have killed them all during his war against them, but 7.3 datamining has revealed that he captured them instead.

It's actually both. Sargeras killed the Titans, but Aman'thul send their spirits to Azeroth. Something happened and the process of transfer to the watchers went wrong. This is all in the Chronicle. And now in 7.3, the shivarra are torturing the spirits.

So, either Sargeras was the one that stopped the transfer or during the several Legion invasions, the Legion got back the Titan spirits.

[In Ogres We Trust]

Hey,

I'm not an alt, i'm just a long time lurker, and I've never really posted or replied that much, so i'm not trolling.

I listened to the recent VO datamined from the latest PTR build, and it seriously made me lose any hype I had about 20 years of Sargeras/Burning Legion/Titans hype. They just made him sound like some kind of mad NPC who just wants to destroy stuff with no actual logic or intelligence behind but a binary set of simplified decisions. I mean, if you listen at the VO of Loken from the Halls of Lightning, you can feel like the guy has been alive for thousand of years, witnessed all sort of events and situations, and has a minimum of dexterity, you can get a bit of inspiration from the character even though he is a vilain.
Same for the whispers of Illgynoth, you feel like even though it's an NPC, it has a thought process with a logical way of thinking that can show you that there is more to it than just wanting to spread tentacles, it's darker or whatever. God, even the shadow priest dagger sounds smarter than the Lord of the legion..

With Sargeras, and the rest of the pantheon they literally sound less deep than any boss from the leveling dungeons, there is no "mystical" purpose behind, no feel of machiavelic plot, nothing, just "BRRAAAAR DEATH PAIN BRBRAAA", it literally killed all the Lore hype I had, and all the expectation of what a mastermind would be, the one who convinced one of the most advanced civilizations on the universe (The eredar) to join his ranks..

Honestly, there's a threshold of having "too much lore," and I think we crossed that "line" two or three expansions ago.

[Deleted]

Tbh we know since mop that they weren't dead

Chronicles came after MoP and established them as dead. And they are still dead during part of 7.3 events.

[Ehuehuecopter]

Chronicles came after MoP and established them as dead. And they are still dead during part of 7.3 events.

In MOP Ra den absorbed the Amanthul knowledge, lei she got it and then wrathion got it after eating Lei shen heart and shout

WE HAVE FALLEN. WE MUST REBUILD THE FINAL TITAN. DO NOT FORGET.

Also mozurd foresight the death of amanthul*

[Deleted]

In MOP Ra den absorbed the Amanthul knowledge, lei she got it and then wrathion got it after eating Lei shen earth and shout

WE HAVE FALLEN. WE MUST REBUILD THE FINAL TITAN. DO NOT FORGET.

Also mozurd foresight the death of amanthul*

"We have fallen" it's pretty much the same as we were killed.

[Raetary]

In MOP Ra den absorbed the Amanthul knowledge, lei she got it and then wrathion got it after eating Lei shen heart and shout

WE HAVE FALLEN. WE MUST REBUILD THE FINAL TITAN. DO NOT FORGET.

Also mozurd foresight the death of amanthul*

what do you think "WE HAVE FALLEN" means?

they died, norgannon preserved their souls before death.
what reached azeroth was a mere part of their power, literally just a memory.

[purebalance]

If only these were datamined files and perhaps not the final versions.

You do realize 99% of the time lore does NOT change on a PTR. PTR barely changes on mechanics.

If only people knew what PTR was for.

- - - Updated - - -

It's actually both. Sargeras killed the Titans, but Aman'thul send their spirits to Azeroth. Something happened and the process of transfer to the watchers went wrong. This is all in the Chronicle. And now in 7.3, the shivarra are torturing the spirits.

So, either Sargeras was the one that stopped the transfer or during the several Legion invasions, the Legion got back the Titan spirits.

It flat out states Sargeras thought he killed them at that moment. Also it was Norgannon not Amanthul. I'd also like to see where it says "something went wrong" because I had thought that, but it must have been headcanon from people because I can't seem to find it. Headcanon is an insidious beast where sometimes it latches onto people.

- - - Updated - - -

Honestly, there's a threshold of having "too much lore," and I think we crossed that "line" two or three expansions ago.

That and having like 40 lore sources for players to keep up with.

[Caerule]

I'm a bit divided on this.

I mean, Argus and Aggramar aren't in their right mind, so we shouldn't expect an intelligent conversation with them.

Sargeras is a single-minded monster and pretty much WoW Satan. I did not expect Sargeras to come across as a rocket scientist in conversation with minions.

It's the other Titans I'm a little disappointed with. They are our creators. The ones who shaped out world and destinies, for grand purpose. One that's been both disrupted and yet exceeded. After how much mystery has surrounded them, I would have expected they had more to say about us.

Golganneth: "I recognize what you are. Aggramar was wise to persuade us to aid your world"
Khaz'goroth: "Extraordinary. The children of Azeroth have come this far?"
Norgannon: "The energies within you tell me much of the state of your world. Truly, a lot has changed since last I laid eyes upon her"
Aman'thul: "You must prevail. The tasks that lie ahead of your people are more difficult, and important, than you can imagine"

That's the sort of dialogue I would be hoping for, from beings such as them. Even Eonar is pretty much all business when it comes to her dialogue. She comes across pretty much like Ysera: We're a bunch of mortals and random champions. But, this is the mother of life for our world. Every tree and rabbit on our world is there because she gave rise to its species. To an Aspect, we may be some random mortals with whom we share a world. But to the Titans, we are the descendants of their work. It would have been nice to see more of an acknowledgement of that.

Maybe Eanor and Aggramar will have some text when we click them after their encounter? Fingers crossed.

[Deleted]

It flat out states Sargeras thought he killed them at that moment. Also it was Norgannon not Amanthul. I'd also like to see where it says "something went wrong" because I had thought that, but it must have been headcanon from people because I can't seem to find it. Headcanon is an insidious beast where sometimes it latches onto people.

Yes, Norgannon, brain fart there.

But it's still up in the air what really happened to the spirits. The Chronicle has phrases like "But just as quickly as the influx of power had come, it dimmed" and "last remnant of the Pantheon's spirits". Combined with 7.3, it's easy to speculate that Blizzard could just say "the process wasn't complete".

It's hardly headcanon, just speculation, when Blizzard themselves thrown the "Titans are back" elephant into the 7.3 storyboard.

[TheRogue]

If you are looking for any consistency or flow or basically and sort of rational decision making in the Warcraft lore, you are going to be disappointed.

The power levels are all wrong, the motivations change, if they even have motivations to begin with.

Take it at face value and enjoy it in the moment, because if you dig, it will just frustrate and confuse you.

[Kokolums]

At this point I think people are trying to expect that for a patch anything that is smaller than the entirety of Witcher 3 (plus DLC) in size with the story telling of the world greatest authors is to be shunned.

When in reality Warcraft lore has always been gamey (as in video game) and cliche. There's never been anything really super great about it or even at a level that would have those who review stories for a living to sit up and take note. Hell no game that isn't taking its lore from another medium has any type of great storytelling. They always put it as a secondary or tertiary level of importance and near enough always fall into tropes and plotholes.

Actually in the early days some of the writing was quite good. Thralls origin story was good. Blackmoore cuts off the girls head and tosses it at Thrall. I mean Blackmoore accomplished more than Kil'Jaeden because he actually killed a lore hero and it was used to reveal Thralls character. Arthas' downfall was well-written.

Th writing in WoW is atrocious but in the early days pre-WoW it wasnt bad. Thats the lament. They could have had something truly special with this lore and it went to crap.

[Tiwack]

You gotta remember: this is Blizzard. The same Blizzard that when asked to "make someone frightening or even the embodiment of terror itself" in three different universes they always came up with "Grr, I'm so angry and big and you will fear my saturday morning villain voice! Be afraid for I am so powerful!"

Every. Fucking. Time.

They've been retconned so many times I can't give a fuck about them anymore. Hell they were boring to begin with. Blizzard seriously struggles with things like character arcs.

Ditto ditto

[Kallisto]

You do realize 99% of the time lore does NOT change on a PTR. PTR barely changes on mechanics.

If only people knew what PTR was for.

To practice raids for the race for world firsts or to complete said raid ASAP? Then complain about things that were on the PTR but no one tested because it wasn't in the dungeon/raid?