Worgen Shamans

[Andromedes]

Except headpieces, they look terrible. Anyway i would rather see them getting paladin.

[Miatog]

Jesus no...

It's already bad we have goat and gobbo shamans. We don't need Worgen in this company aswell. There is no support for Gilneas shamans, humans never had any contact with it, and are not tribal community.

If you want to play real shaman roll from original 3 Horde races. Plenty of spells and lore supports them. They have it all that makes a true shaman. And shaman is not just elementalist, it's a representative of tribe . It's someone that praise ancestors, it's someone who follows old traditions, it's someone who speaks with spirits and does other tribal stuff.

So all the things that the draenei do, that you're complaining about. Goblin I will give you, those have always felt funky to me, but I have no issues with any of the other races that are shaman. Orc, troll, tauren, draenei, dwarves, all of them fit what being a shaman is.

OT: No, worgen don't fit being shaman. They have a better chance getting monk or paladin than they do shaman.

[Volendrung]

Every race should be every class. It's 2017, it's time.

Preach

/10char

[Deleted]

Thankfully, the job of spirit talking can be given to a shapely spacegoat girl already, so I couldn't care less if the dogs can get it too.

[Synthium]

So with the next expansion new class/race combinations will probaly be possible, will Worgen Shaman be one? I would really love it! Think about a Male Worgen Enhancement Shaman with the tier 6 set, absolutely brutal.

It of course is a subjective thing, but the races that can roll a Shaman now on the Alliance side al have that squishy armor look. It doesn't look impressive or imposing at all. Think about a female Draenei for example, you almost can't see what she is wearing. Orcs are the ultimate race for it - love them - but that's a little hard for an Alliance.

Do you think it's possible lorewise and what do you think of it?

What source do you have to back up the claim that in the new expansion, there will probably be more combos?

[Ramz]

There is no cultural aspect to most shamans in warcraft. In Warcraft Shamanism is the hability to bargain with the elements to inflict wounds or heal them. The cultural aspect is that each race will see it differently. Some Shamans will ask the elements for their help, some will impose their will on the elements. The goblin even use their bargaining expertise and work with the elements through contracts.

In Lord of the Clans, Drek'thar talks about this. He asks the elements for their help and offers things in return. Gameplay wise the Shaman is simply a caster / melee / healer but lorewise it's a much deeper balance.

There is absolutely nothing barring other races to learn shamanism. But there is also no need for it. The Orcs / Tauren - the oldest shamans in Warcraft - had no knowledge of the arcane and thus they had to resort to shamanism. And that's why the Orcs became Warlocks, it was much easier to impose their will and use fel magic than to beseech the elements for help.

The Trolls worked a much darker aspect of shamanism through their Loa gods. While the Pandaren, due to the playful nature of their elemental spirits, work their shamanism through different forms: Dances, martial arts, meditation.

As a long time Shaman roleplayer i have to say that lorewise there is no barrier for other races to learn shamanism. The only exception i'd make it's undead. But the rest could learn but have no need for it.

Humanity left shamanism / druidism of old because the elves taught them the secrets of arcane magic. And specially because they lost their vrykul ancestry. Once they had the arcane, and the arcane saved their civilization against the Trolls, they had no need to "ask" the elements because now they could bend them to their will. That didn't happen to Orcs till the formation of the Horde. And it never happened to Tauren since they never dabbled in the arcane. The Trolls are a different matter because they always had a deeper connection to the Loas.

If it was up to me the game would have very little limitations on classes.

I am also long time shaman roleplayer, and Shaman is culture affilated. Shaman is important member of the tribe, it's usually a spiritual leader. Someone who performs ancinet rites to please ancestors/ gods. Shamanism is very pegan-oriented, it's in oposition to the light worship - and this is why goat "shamans" fit like punch to the face.

they can be elementalists, but they will never be a true shaman, as they're not a tribal society. They had to have blood lust renamed to heroism because they lack any primal quality, they're incapable of reaching that.

You're mixing game mechanics with cultural flavor that shaman class gives. Reducing them to mere casters that just throw elemental spells would indicate that twilight cultists are shamans too, and so are mages.

But that is not the case. Ability of interacting with elementals is just part of what makes shaman. A huge chucnk of spells is affiliated with spirituality or tribal magic/ voodoo.

It was a grave mistake to make out of goats and goblins shamans. They don't have any tribal background, they don't have history of creating totems, appealing to ancestors, performing tribal magic.
They're just elementalists.

[Teri]

Goblin + Orb of Deception

- - - Updated - - -

Seriously, gear sets look sick on those guys. Besides that, I love them.

Male worgen, ok.
Female worgen, ewww. (I just can't stand their face)

Model update for Goblin/Worgen would be nice regardless.

And new (sub)race/class combos instead would keep me more interested in 8.0 then a new class in current state of "not knowing anything"

[Grenzstein]

I am also long time shaman roleplayer, and Shaman is culture affilated. Shaman is important member of the tribe, it's usually a spiritual leader. Someone who performs ancinet rites to please ancestors/ gods. Shamanism is very pegan-oriented, it's in oposition to the light worship - and this is why goat "shamans" fit like punch to the face.

they can be elementalists, but they will never be a true shaman, as they're not a tribal society. They had to have blood lust renamed to heroism because they lack any primal quality, they're incapable of reaching that.

You're mixing game mechanics with cultural flavor that shaman class gives. Reducing them to mere casters that just throw elemental spells would indicate that twilight cultists are shamans too, and so are mages.

But that is not the case. Ability of interacting with elementals is just part of what makes shaman. A huge chucnk of spells is affiliated with spirituality or tribal magic/ voodoo.

It was a grave mistake to make out of goats and goblins shamans. They don't have any tribal background, they don't have history of creating totems, appealing to ancestors, performing tribal magic.
They're just elementalists.

You still can't understand how Shamanism and magic in general works in Warcraft.
Warlocks, Mages, Shamans and Necromancers are all spellcasters. But they use the same energy on different ways. It's about what they use to fuel their spells and not a imaginary cultural flavor.

Shamans ask the elements for their help, Warlocks use the fel to fuel their spells, Mage bend the elements through the arcane and Necromancers use death magic. There is also the void. Classes are just a gameplay creation. In the lore there are no classes. Drek'thar was a Shaman, then a Warlock, and then a Shaman again.

Once again, the classes exist for gameplay reasons and not lore reasons. Turalyon was raised as a priest and trained under Lothar to be a knight and thus became a Paladin.

Look at the Chronicles Cosmology. There is no separation between Shamanism fire magic and Mages fire magic, both are using the same fire but through different ways. The mage will use the arcane to bend the elements to their will. A Fire mage is still an arcanist in pure lore terms he is just bending the elemental fire to his will. And so is a Destruction Warlock, using Fel Magic to empower and bend the elements and that is pretty clear in Chronicles 2 when the Elements are enraged because the early horde warlocks were corrupting them through the use of fel magic. The Shaman do no such thing, he will ASK for the elements for their power. And that is the difference.

Once again, you are trying to impose real life shamanism in Warcraft shamanism and that's wrong. There is absolutely no need in Warcraft for a "tribal background" to have Shamans. Taurens, Trolls and Orcs have a tribal background. Dwarves, Draenei and Goblins don't. And both are Shaman. It's canon and thus your idea of a "tribal shamanism" is just half of the Warcraft shamanism.

I'll try to be more clear: There is nothing in canon lore (Specially Chronicles) that supports that Shamanism is a tribal religion. The only thing is that Shamans were mystics that asked the elements for their power. Some races had a tribal background and shamanism, some races had no tribal background and shamanism. And thus Blizzard made it clear that one thing has nothing to do with the other. There is no unified culture for Shamans. Each race have their own background and their specific way to deal with the elements.

[Deleted]

I see Worgen Paladins and Monks before them getting shaman.
I mean they have a church and beleave in the light and are now together with Pandaren Monks for years.

[Ramz]

You still can't understand how Shamanism and magic in general works in Warcraft.
Warlocks, Mages, Shamans and Necromancers are all spellcasters. But they use the same energy on different ways. It's about what they use to fuel their spells and not a imaginary cultural flavor.

Shamans ask the elements for their help, Warlocks use the fel to fuel their spells, Mage bend the elements through the arcane and Necromancers use death magic. There is also the void. Classes are just a gameplay creation. In the lore there are no classes. Drek'thar was a Shaman, then a Warlock, and then a Shaman again.

Once again, the classes exist for gameplay reasons and not lore reasons. Turalyon was raised as a priest and trained under Lothar to be a knight and thus became a Paladin.

Look at the Chronicles Cosmology. There is no separation between Shamanism fire magic and Mages fire magic, both are using the same fire but through different ways. The mage will use the arcane to bend the elements to their will. A Fire mage is still an arcanist in pure lore terms he is just bending the elemental fire to his will. And so is a Destruction Warlock, using Fel Magic to empower and bend the elements and that is pretty clear in Chronicles 2 when the Elements are enraged because the early horde warlocks were corrupting them through the use of fel magic. The Shaman do no such thing, he will ASK for the elements for their power. And that is the difference.

Once again, you are trying to impose real life shamanism in Warcraft shamanism and that's wrong. There is absolutely no need in Warcraft for a "tribal background" to have Shamans. Taurens, Trolls and Orcs have a tribal background. Dwarves, Draenei and Goblins don't. And both are Shaman. It's canon and thus your idea of a "tribal shamanism" is just half of the Warcraft shamanism.

I'll try to be more clear: There is nothing in canon lore (Specially Chronicles) that supports that Shamanism is a tribal religion. The only thing is that Shamans were mystics that asked the elements for their power. Some races had a tribal background and shamanism, some races had no tribal background and shamanism. And thus Blizzard made it clear that one thing has nothing to do with the other. There is no unified culture for Shamans. Each race have their own background and their specific way to deal with the elements.

I know how classes work, but as I said already Shaman is not JUST an elemental spellcaster. Almost half of their skills is a reference to tribal traditions and customs.

I am not reinventing shaman class, this is how shaman class is in game.
A lot of skills are reference to tribal magic, such as voodoo. I know game mechanics has their own limitations, and it's obvious that certain spells would be normally race restricted, but really I wouldn't bring this up if it wouldn't be that obvious.

There are elementalists and there are shamans. Shaman while is relying on elementals in a way of asking for help is still a totemic warrior (enhancement tree description) and spiritual guide of a tribe/clan. Which is also quite well explored for orcish culture.

And lastly you had WoD already to prove that space goats didn't had any affinity for this stuff, because for centuries their culture was about something completely different.

But TBC happened, whoop- they can, because one guy got beaten to coma and he suddenly realised he can understand elementals. And then we have Cataclysm, and Twilight highlands where we meet that goat that sais "Being thundercaller is fun, but it electrifies my hair!" (or something like that). I don't know how a long time shaman player that treats their class seriously couldn't find this cringeworthy.

But I'm honestly done with this subject, I believe I elaborated well on what I think about this, and there is nothing I could add. But seeing how lore is going downhill and we get more homogenisation and shallow development I wouldn't be surprised if some other stupid combinations would emerge for whatever reason.