[Spoilers] is the "lord of the ravens" Sargeras?

[Wolfman31]

You mean the other "expert" who has never heard Raven God being used to describe Odin and then even refers it to a name himself? Thanks for admitting to arguing semantics, though.

I don't recall anyone else claiming to be an expert, but yeah there's been some confusion going around. I've dedicated my life to Germanic Studies as a whole both on a collegiate level and a personal one. As I've said before, this is my religion. A simple invocation for Odin, or any god for that matter, will generally consist of calling out the god's name followed by several kennings like Raven-God to further strengthen the god's archetype in the invoker's mind. For example, "Hail Odin! Allfather! Raven-God! Battle-Wolf! Wielder of Gungnir! We call on you!" It's similar to how Christians often call Jesus the King of Kings.

[Engal]

The Five Keys (Pillars pf Creation) already lit the way by changing our fate and giving the Old Gods a path to Azeroth. The Lord of Ravens (Khadgar atm) already turned the key by opening the way to Argus and setting things in motion so that Sargeras will no longer be an obstacle for the Old Gods. Now all that remains is for Sylvanas to kill herself and usher in their coming (third death while guarded by Val'kyr).

The third death was never about Sylvanas.
The wound confirmed it, it's about Azeroth, it's a " her " and she got another cataclysm, we can refer to " death "

Even Tyrande mentions " Witnessing a third Cataclysm " in the audio file leaked. So it's 100% Azeroth.

[Captain Proton]

I don't recall anyone else claiming to be an expert, but yeah there's been some confusion going around. I've dedicated my life to Germanic Studies as a whole both on a collegiate level and a personal one. As I've said before, this is my religion. A simple invocation for Odin, or any god for that matter, will generally consist of calling out the god's name followed by several kennings like Raven-God to further strengthen the god's archetype in the invoker's mind. For example, "Hail Odin! Allfather! Raven-God! Battle-Wolf! Wielder of Gungnir! We call on you!" It's similar to how Christians often call Jesus the King of Kings.

Take it from a dane with a master in history, we re pretty much breastfeed with the stories of Thor, Loki and Odin from childbirth.

He hadn't heard of that kenning before and disputed it's existence. The other person quoted where Odin was referred to as Raven God. The argument wasn't about if he was an actual Raven God.

Thanks for teaching me the word kenning though. Pretty neat! (no sarcasm)

[Blamblam41]

Considering the audio short with Alleria, i am not sure whether whether all of these prophecies may come true.

One of them? sure, all of them? Unlikely.

Shadow / void based visions also shows the shadow's desire, which is a different thing that what will actually happen.

Well that's always been true. Look at the prophetic visions the heart of y'shaarj gave Garrosh. Those never came to pass, but he truly and fervently believed they would.

And what's to say that visions bourne of the Light don't too have the Lights nature and desire as well? We've already begun with the theme that Light can be used for malicious purposes just like the Void, might as well go all the way. Which makes me full on question every single one of Velen's 'prophecies'.

[Kralljin]

And what's to say that visions bourne of the Light don't too have the Lights nature and desire as well? We've already begun with the theme that Light can be used for malicious purposes just like the Void, might as well go all the way. Which makes me full on question every single one of Velen's 'prophecies'.

From what i remember, not every Vision of Velen came to pass, one of his major struggles was to tell which one would actually happen.

[Wolfman31]

He hadn't heard of that kenning before and disputed it's existence. The other person quoted where Odin was referred to as Raven God. The argument wasn't about if he was an actual Raven God.

Thanks for teaching me the word kenning though. Pretty neat! (no sarcasm)

Ah, right. Well, a master in history even in Denmark isn't necessarily going to know every detail about Norse mythology unless they purposefully studied it extensively like I did. And the stories they were told growing up were barely the cliff notes version. My grandmother immigrated to America from northwest Germany and she used to regale me as a kid with tales of Sigurd slaying the dragon Fafnir, but I didn't end up reading the Volsung saga until I was older. And now I'm learning to read it in Old Norse. The Faustian quest for knowledge is intrinsic to the spirit of the Germanic peoples, for better or worse. I'm always happy to share what I've learned along the way so you're welcome. Kennings are a crucial element of skaldic poetry, which is often overlooked in the evolution of European art but not any less beautiful and unique in its own right.

[Konteil]

my bet is that they are khadgar adn the pillars of creation. im thinking they get stolen while were on argus personally

[Asotcha]

Hmm, nah. I would believe that 'Lord of ravens' would mean more than just a one time controlling.

We currently have three-four characters connected to the term, 'ravens'?

Yeah-- honestly my first thought was Lord Jorach Ravenholdt, of the rogues. Not only were his trained ravens used to deliver messages on a regular basis through those class quests, but he's also where we get our class mount from. The cinematic shows him holding up a magic egg and then our giant raven mounts bursting out of it.

The whole thing with the Uncrowned is that angle of 'the unseen blades that write the true history of the world', and if there's a thing to be discovered or figured out, or unlocked-- He'd probably be one of the first people to know about it.

My second thought was something else having to do with Kurtalos Ravencrest. I think his own deeds are at an end, but perhaps something else to be discovered? Looking forward to finding out.

[Tartys]

Calling him Raven-God is a poetic device.

And yes, Blizzard has directly copied so much from outside sources because originality takes effort and creativity. They'll change a letter here and there and voila! Lore without having to put any real thought into it.

In the link that I posted above was well explained...: "The skaldic poetry of the Viking Age often uses kennings involving ravens to refer to Odin". And its also explained what a Kenning is...

So, Yes its a poetic device and what is the problem about that?

For Odyn in WoW was used the "kenning" as reference... even khadgar or Medivh are not "raven lord"... they use a raven as a travel form and the Atiesh, so they can be also associated with ravens as well just like Odin, God of Raven is not the name (what why I use Wotan) on his "Passaport". We got it, but its one of the many ways is called in poetic way.

Il'gynoth use "periphrasis" in his wispers... and "kenning" are periphrasis, so its correct in this contest use the same periphrasis that describe Odin as a reference to him. All these whisperings are deliberately ambiguous and they have more than one interpretations...

Its a spoiler if you dont know American Gods: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yZp3ekJwVo

[ohwell]

"Five keys to open our way. Five torches to light our path" is about the keepers i think

There were more than 5 keepers: Mimiron, Thorim, Hodir, Freya, Loken, Odyn, Ra, Tyr...

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Considering the audio short with Alleria, i am not sure whether whether all of these prophecies may come true.

One of them? sure, all of them? Unlikely.

Shadow / void based visions also shows the shadow's desire, which is a different thing that what will actually happen.

Pretty much. The lore is just such a mess right now that basically you have to choose what to believe. If you believe the whole Alleria thing even though it's full of so many bad plotholes, you would also pretty much be able to dismiss any of the old god lore other than what is in Chronicle because Chronicle is written as omniscient rather than being something someone told you.

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The Five Keys (Pillars pf Creation) already lit the way by changing our fate and giving the Old Gods a path to Azeroth. The Lord of Ravens (Khadgar atm) already turned the key by opening the way to Argus and setting things in motion so that Sargeras will no longer be an obstacle for the Old Gods. Now all that remains is for Sylvanas to kill herself and usher in their coming (third death while guarded by Val'kyr).

Almost none of that is true or plausible. Khadgar did not open the way to Argus for example and I'd like to see a citation that "the pillars changed our fate".

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Pretty much. The lore is just such a mess right now that basically you have to choose what to believe. If you believe the whole Alleria thing even though it's full of so many bad plotholes, you would also pretty much be able to dismiss any of the old god lore other than what is in Chronicle because Chronicle is written as omniscient rather than being something someone told you.

Not nearly as much as you think. the Audio drama was clear and visions are just that, visions. They may not necessarily happen. Also for the keepers. Thorim,Hodir,Freya Odyn and Ra are left.

[ohwell]

Sargeras at a time possessed Medivh and by extension is the Lord of the ravens. If this is true wouldn't "The lord of the ravens will turn the key" be pointing towards Sargeras stabbing azeroth before his imprisonment?

To add on to that, wouldn't the "Five keys to open our way. Five torches to light our path" line be a reference to us using the pillars to open the way to (indirectly) Argus which would in turn set the Lord of the ravens business in motion along with ushering in the 3rd death of Azeroth (Sargeras stabbing it)

Why does this matter? The Alleria/Turalyon audio pretty much said we can ignore the majority of what was said when it comes from the void. The void gives many things that are not true while a handful might be.

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Not nearly as much as you think. the Audio drama was clear and visions are just that, visions. They may not necessarily happen. Also for the keepers. Thorim,Hodir,Freya Odyn and Ra are left.

Except it wasn't considering it keeps going with that myth about the nether. So if you choose to believe in the whole nether nonsense and that the audio is not a pile of crap, you would also realize that you can't believe most if not all of what Ilganoth said.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Except it wasn't considering it keeps going with that myth about the nether. So if you choose to believe in the whole nether nonsense and that the audio is not a pile of crap, you would also realize that you can't believe most if not all of what Ilganoth said.

The audio Drama doesn't really refute what Illganoth says, I don't know how you jumped to that conclusion like at all.

[endorus]

It's Anzu all day long.

From the darkest night shall rise again the raven, shall take flight in the shadows, shall reveal the nature of its kind. Prepare yourself for its coming, for the faithful shall be elevated to take flight with the raven, the rest be forgotten to walk upon the ground, clipped wings and shame.

Steel your minds and guard your thoughts. The dark wings will cloud and consume the minds of the weak, a flock of thralls whose feet may never leave the ground.

The old blood will flow once again with the coming of the raven, the return of the darkness in the skies. Scarlet night, and the rise of the old.

The raven was struck down once for flying too high, unready. The eons have prepared the Dark Watcher for its ascent, to draw the dark cloak across the horizon.

[Wolfman31]

So, Yes its a poetic device and what is the problem about that?

I have no problem with that. I'm the one that pointed it out that it was a kenning in the first place when I felt that people were taking it too literal.

And yes, I know American Gods, both the book and the show. Neil Gaiman recently came out with his own take on Norse Mythology that I just started reading. So far, so good.