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  1. #1

    WIA vs MG decision: Drain soul uptime requirements?

    When trying to decide if a fight has sufficient movement requirements that it’s better to use WIA as opposed to MG, is there any kind of established calculation or ballpark figure for how often you have to be using drain for MG to outperform WIA? For example, if I’m only getting 25% uptime on DS, would I be better off using WIA? Would that answer change if I’m closer to 35-40% uptime on DS?

    Thanks in advance for the advice!

  2. #2
    Its more about DS uptime during reap and UA's, best way to check the % would be to check logs of augur or krosos where you dont have that much movement if not excesively targeted by mechanics (taking into account the soaking time and probable the add doting time).

    You should have pretty high DS uptime during UA also, otherwise you will be losing so much dps.

  3. #3
    I have also asked myself the same question

  4. #4
    Just taking a quick look over at warcraftlogs and seeing that the highest parse on every boss in nighthold for affliction is MG,I dont think WIA is able to compete on any boss except maybe Botanist if youre an asshole and want to pad the meters (even then WIA build loses to MG LUL).

    So yeah you can play WIA but you won't do better than any other MG affliction lock.

    I guess there is no breakpoint in DS uptime where WIA becomes a clear winner.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Kimk View Post
    Just taking a quick look over at warcraftlogs and seeing that the highest parse on every boss in nighthold for affliction is MG,I dont think WIA is able to compete on any boss except maybe Botanist if youre an asshole and want to pad the meters (even then WIA build loses to MG LUL).

    So yeah you can play WIA but you won't do better than any other MG affliction lock.

    I guess there is no breakpoint in DS uptime where WIA becomes a clear winner.
    "highest parse on every boss for affliction" is probably the guy who has got a license from RL to stay in and tunnel with MG. I doubt those guys have the same MG uptime as your regular e.g. cake eater/sterilizer on Trilliax.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Ellerain View Post
    "highest parse on every boss for affliction" is probably the guy who has got a license from RL to stay in and tunnel with MG. I doubt those guys have the same MG uptime as your regular e.g. cake eater/sterilizer on Trilliax.
    I tested WIA on Triliax as i am a cake eater sterilizer too, but still WIA lacks behind MG so much its just not worth it, at least for me personally.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Kimk View Post
    Just taking a quick look over at warcraftlogs and seeing that the highest parse on every boss in nighthold for affliction is MG,I dont think WIA is able to compete on any boss except maybe Botanist if youre an asshole and want to pad the meters (even then WIA build loses to MG LUL).

    So yeah you can play WIA but you won't do better than any other MG affliction lock.

    I guess there is no breakpoint in DS uptime where WIA becomes a clear winner.
    I tried to both MG and WIA on botanist mythic and WIA had clearly better priority target damage for 1st and 2nd phases. It is mostly because you are drowning in shards on that fight so you don't get to drain much in between juggling 3-4 Agonies, Corruption and, if you are talented, Siphon Life on the prio target. Also switching to lashers and the spheres. Only downside is 3rd phase is a burn phase and you don't have as much Single Target dps as MG in the last phase.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaroch View Post
    I tried to both MG and WIA on botanist mythic and WIA had clearly better priority target damage for 1st and 2nd phases. It is mostly because you are drowning in shards on that fight so you don't get to drain much in between juggling 3-4 Agonies, Corruption and, if you are talented, Siphon Life on the prio target. Also switching to lashers and the spheres. Only downside is 3rd phase is a burn phase and you don't have as much Single Target dps as MG in the last phase.
    Remember the no. 1 priority for Warlocks - do not overcap shards!
    And if you spend shards, you should drain them. Do 3 UA's if you have so many shards before a drain, but your prio target should have all other dots.
    Then, and only then you dot the other targets.

    This way you have the most damage available in all phases.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Kimk View Post
    I tested WIA on Triliax as i am a cake eater sterilizer too, but still WIA lacks behind MG so much its just not worth it, at least for me personally.
    There is too much time of no eating/sterilizing for WiA to be stronger than MG.
    Excuses are like assholes, everyone have them and they all stink.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by VladimirM View Post
    There is too much time of no eating/sterilizing for WiA to be stronger than MG.
    yeah thats why i generally think that for nighthold WIA isn't a viable alternative.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaroch View Post
    I tried to both MG and WIA on botanist mythic and WIA had clearly better priority target damage for 1st and 2nd phases. It is mostly because you are drowning in shards on that fight so you don't get to drain much in between juggling 3-4 Agonies, Corruption and, if you are talented, Siphon Life on the prio target. Also switching to lashers and the spheres. Only downside is 3rd phase is a burn phase and you don't have as much Single Target dps as MG in the last phase.
    On botanist u dont use corruption and siphon life on the other 2 boss adds if u specced into MG Cont!
    Its worth more to keep 3 agonies rolling, 3-4 UA on main target because of shard influx and then drain like no tommorow.

    Corruption and SL should always only be on your main target. the globals are wasted on the other 2 in phase 1.
    Phase 2 it may be possible to keep 2 dotlines rolling and still drain enough, not sure entirely.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Kimk View Post
    yeah thats why i generally think that for nighthold WIA isn't a viable alternative.

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    On botanist u dont use corruption and siphon life on the other 2 boss adds if u specced into MG Cont!
    Its worth more to keep 3 agonies rolling, 3-4 UA on main target because of shard influx and then drain like no tommorow.

    Corruption and SL should always only be on your main target. the globals are wasted on the other 2 in phase 1.
    Phase 2 it may be possible to keep 2 dotlines rolling and still drain enough, not sure entirely.
    what kind of crazy person plays SL on botanist mythic anyway ._.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Kimk View Post

    On botanist u dont use corruption and siphon life on the other 2 boss adds if u specced into MG Cont!
    Its worth more to keep 3 agonies rolling, 3-4 UA on main target because of shard influx and then drain like no tommorow.

    Corruption and SL should always only be on your main target. the globals are wasted on the other 2 in phase 1.
    Phase 2 it may be possible to keep 2 dotlines rolling and still drain enough, not sure entirely.
    I'm sorry if it wasn't clear from my English, what I meant was keeping agony on 3-4 targets, and on the prio target keeping corruption and (maybe)SL.
    You still don't get much uptime on drain soul juggling dots and the movement in the fight.

    But Orwell7 is right about one thing, it doesn't matter if your agonies on other bosses drop as long as you maintain it on your main target and letting them drop during your drain soul cycles.

  13. #13
    Corruption and SL deal total shit damage without MG so it's no surprise most affliction locks have gone MG.

    Affliction cleave is shit anyways because all the damage is shoved into UA, which is single target, and Agony, which has ramp up and requires long lived mobs.

    Vampiric Touch+SW:P do more damage between the 2 of them than your 3 dots (Agony, Corruption, Siphon Life) combined, so affliction warlock will always be a mediocre shadow priest for cleave, especially since shadow priest can renew dots to 45+ seconds duration with voidbolt while happily doing his single target damage.

    Everything about affliction is trying to empower UA and synergize that with Reap. All the other dots except max stack agony were made incredibly weak to make UA strong.

    In botanist you can't maintain any dot more than agony on the other clones since by the time you apply SL+Agony and dump 2 shards plus one drain soul the other 2 agonies are already falling off.

    Affliction dots, especially siphon life and the initial agony application last way too short.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by scrynlock View Post
    what kind of crazy person plays SL on botanist mythic anyway ._.
    trust me, I've seen things ._.

    i personally prefer AC+SH instead of Cont+SH just because im lazy as fuck

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucrece View Post
    Corruption and SL deal total shit damage without MG so it's no surprise most affliction locks have gone MG.

    Affliction cleave is shit anyways because all the damage is shoved into UA, which is single target, and Agony, which has ramp up and requires long lived mobs.

    Vampiric Touch+SW:P do more damage between the 2 of them than your 3 dots (Agony, Corruption, Siphon Life) combined, so affliction warlock will always be a mediocre shadow priest for cleave, especially since shadow priest can renew dots to 45+ seconds duration with voidbolt while happily doing his single target damage.

    Everything about affliction is trying to empower UA and synergize that with Reap. All the other dots except max stack agony were made incredibly weak to make UA strong.

    In botanist you can't maintain any dot more than agony on the other clones since by the time you apply SL+Agony and dump 2 shards plus one drain soul the other 2 agonies are already falling off.

    Affliction dots, especially siphon life and the initial agony application last way too short.
    Yeah thats what has bummed me about affliction since the beginning of legion. Either godlike ST or Godlike Mass AoE, but cleaving as Aff doesn't feel rewarding at all. On any 2 Target fight I would probably go to Destruction if it really is needed, otherwise just keep agony up on the second target and tunnel the main one.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Kimk View Post
    trust me, I've seen things ._.

    i personally prefer AC+SH instead of Cont+SH just because im lazy as fuck

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    Yeah thats what has bummed me about affliction since the beginning of legion. Either godlike ST or Godlike Mass AoE, but cleaving as Aff doesn't feel rewarding at all. On any 2 Target fight I would probably go to Destruction if it really is needed, otherwise just keep agony up on the second target and tunnel the main one.
    yeah aff doesnt cleave for shit, you just amp your ST a bit

  16. #16
    Writhe in Agony is really good in fights where you can abuse the multidotting aspect and where there's alot of mobility. It's also great in encounters where you can abuse a high uptime on Wrath of Consumption.

    Personally I play Writhe on Elisande, Gul'dan, Trilliax and Botanist.

    The only problem is when you play with Contagion at which point the dotting can become really stressfull and quite hard.
    Personally I believe the Writhe in Agony playstyle should be buffed, it's way harder to perform well with that specc compared to Malefic Grasp aswell.

    The damage of Agony could be buffed by ~15% and Effigy could be upped to 45%.
    Number's are just pulled from nowhere, I'd be fine with MG pulling ahead slightly on pure single target fights. Simply wish Writhe was stronger. It's not really like it's multitarget capabilities are over the top either.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Kimk View Post
    trust me, I've seen things ._.

    i personally prefer AC+SH instead of Cont+SH just because im lazy as fuck

    - - - Updated - - -



    Yeah thats what has bummed me about affliction since the beginning of legion. Either godlike ST or Godlike Mass AoE, but cleaving as Aff doesn't feel rewarding at all. On any 2 Target fight I would probably go to Destruction if it really is needed, otherwise just keep agony up on the second target and tunnel the main one.
    Affliction aoe outside gimmicks like Skorpyron and Il'gynoth is total garbage as well.

    Look up Aluriel, Tichondrius, or Gul'dan, and affliction is mediocre.

    Even with sow the seeds affliction aoe is still the substandard warlock aoe crap that all specs suffer. Only time affliction does good is when soulflame can be cheesed with ton of consistent adds that liver very little.

    More importantly, Affliction in Skorpyron is one of the few fights in Nighthold where you gain souls for killing adds besides the elf adds from Tichondrius. Gul'dan, Aluriel, Elisande give jackshit worth of souls.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucrece View Post
    Affliction aoe outside gimmicks like Skorpyron and Il'gynoth is total garbage as well.

    Look up Aluriel, Tichondrius, or Gul'dan, and affliction is mediocre.

    Even with sow the seeds affliction aoe is still the substandard warlock aoe crap that all specs suffer. Only time affliction does good is when soulflame can be cheesed with ton of consistent adds that liver very little.

    More importantly, Affliction in Skorpyron is one of the few fights in Nighthold where you gain souls for killing adds besides the elf adds from Tichondrius. Gul'dan, Aluriel, Elisande give jackshit worth of souls.
    yeah the souls aspect also makes me wonder everytime.

  19. #19
    When setting simcraft to light movement, I sim a 2k difference between WiA and MG on 1 target. Makes me think WiA might be better after all, seems much more forgiving (not letting Agony fall off is alot easier than getting perfect drains) and it allows you to move more, and to be honest its more fun too. I just dont completely trust it to be true.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by noaim View Post
    When setting simcraft to light movement, I sim a 2k difference between WiA and MG on 1 target. Makes me think WiA might be better after all, seems much more forgiving (not letting Agony fall off is alot easier than getting perfect drains) and it allows you to move more, and to be honest its more fun too. I just dont completely trust it to be true.
    Do you have the legendary helm?

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