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  1. #21
    Always makes me sad when people forget that AC's are not the same as WoW's talent trees, skilltrees are for that. AC's = pretty much the same as a class in any other MMO. It's not like you can change your class in WoW now, is it? If you want to tank, pick an AC that can tank like someone already said. You can always respec to for example Firebug if you wish to dps as a Powertech or something.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Relir View Post
    Always makes me sad when people forget that AC's are not the same as WoW's talent trees, skilltrees are for that. AC's = pretty much the same as a class in any other MMO. It's not like you can change your class in WoW now, is it? If you want to tank, pick an AC that can tank like someone already said. You can always respec to for example Firebug if you wish to dps as a Powertech or something.
    Exactly. AC choice should be permanent. Now the talents within an AC, they said you will be able to move them around if I'm not mistaken (or maybe I'm just making that up now that I think about it).

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by PuliGT View Post
    The answer is the same as it was when they first announced the issue. They are testing multiple ways of handling it. We'll get more info closer to launch.
    While this is currently the most correct answer possible, I like the speculation and rumor of allowing AC changes from levels 10-20 (give ot take a few levels) and then capping it off. No more changing once you reach that point and every time you do change AC's before that level cap it costs you an increasing amount of credits till you can almost not afford it change the AC anyway.

    Change AC at end game. I hope not.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Klur View Post
    Not allowing it or making it ridiculously expensive to respec would only hurt the game, especially if leveling takes as long as they are hinting. This is a brand new game. Players aren't going to have a ton of resources to look at and make accurate decisions about how the endgame plays out.

    Think of it this way: lets say you finally get to lv 50 as an Inquisitor Assassin, but you find it's not that fun. What would you do if your options are either relevel a Inquisitor again to try out the Sorcerer, pay a ridiculous amount of credits, or just level another class in the hopes that you'll enjoy it.

    How about if you get to 50 and it's fun, but they make some tweaks (remember, this is a new game, things won't be perfect at launch, regardless of how long beta is) and it destroys that spec for you. Once again you either have to level a new toon in hopes that it'll be fun.

    No thank you. MMO's are too fluid to restrict a player like that. Every major content update can cause re-balancing issues. Look at WoW: how often has a patch made a spec not viable or made another spec top dps?
    So you would support WoW having the option to change my Priest (Healer/Caster DPS) to a Warrior (Tank/Melee DPS). I would not.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by PuliGT View Post
    So you would support WoW having the option to change my Priest (Healer/Caster DPS) to a Warrior (Tank/Melee DPS). I would not.
    This is a good point. As mentioned above, different ACs even for the same class are quite unique from each other. Changing an Inquisitor from a Sorcerer to an Assassin would almost be comparable to changing a priest to a warrior. Sure, Sorcs and Assassins share a few abilities, but they are more different than they are alike. I wouldn't like the idea of someone being able to switch to a class they know little about, past a certain level.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Relir View Post
    Always makes me sad when people forget that AC's are not the same as WoW's talent trees, skilltrees are for that. AC's = pretty much the same as a class in any other MMO. It's not like you can change your class in WoW now, is it? If you want to tank, pick an AC that can tank like someone already said. You can always respec to for example Firebug if you wish to dps as a Powertech or something.
    I disagree. SWTOR will be a story-driven MMO unlike WoW. The stories will be unique for every class, not every AC. I wouldn't want to sit through the same story just to be able to play another AC of the same class.

    Also, the classes aren't like the classes in WoW. In WoW a Rogue is a Rogue and a Mage is a Mage. In SWTOR a Powertech is a Bounty Hunter and a Mercenary is also a Bounty Hunter, so why not make changing ACs possible? Why can't that Bounty Hunter drop some of his heavy armor for another pistol if he wanted to (for a price)? Why shouldn't he have that freedom(if he has the credits)?

    It's not like that Bounty Hunter is suddenly going to get infused with the Force and go Sith Warrior or anything. It's a class change within itself, so I think it's perfectly viable both in a gaming sense and in a lore sense.
    "It's not what we don't know that gets us into trouble; it's what we know for sure that just ain't so." ~Mark Twain
    "The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time" ~Jesus Christ

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by PuliGT View Post
    So you would support WoW having the option to change my Priest (Healer/Caster DPS) to a Warrior (Tank/Melee DPS). I would not.
    Apples to oranges.

    Priests and warriors have nothing in common.

    A Sith Warrior going juggernaut or marauder is similar to a war going arms or fury. It's all a branching tree.

    Sith Warrior- Marauder or Jugernaut- 2 trees each and 1 shared

    Warrior- arms, fury, or prot

    priest- holy, disc, shadow

    No overlap in wow.

    Crappy diagram ftw!

    Mostly I'm concerned about the time sink of this game. I don't have hours upon hours to play anymore, and I don't want to level a character for months, only to find out that I should have went Assassin instead of Sorcerer.

    edit: the formatting got all mess up :\

    And whats the difference between changing AC at 10 -20 or changing at 50?
    Last edited by Klur; 2011-10-18 at 09:10 PM.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Klur View Post
    Not allowing it or making it ridiculously expensive to respec would only hurt the game, especially if leveling takes as long as they are hinting. This is a brand new game. Players aren't going to have a ton of resources to look at and make accurate decisions about how the endgame plays out.

    Think of it this way: lets say you finally get to lv 50 as an Inquisitor Assassin, but you find it's not that fun. What would you do if your options are either relevel a Inquisitor again to try out the Sorcerer, pay a ridiculous amount of credits, or just level another class in the hopes that you'll enjoy it.

    How about if you get to 50 and it's fun, but they make some tweaks (remember, this is a new game, things won't be perfect at launch, regardless of how long beta is) and it destroys that spec for you. Once again you either have to level a new toon in hopes that it'll be fun.

    No thank you. MMO's are too fluid to restrict a player like that. Every major content update can cause re-balancing issues. Look at WoW: how often has a patch made a spec not viable or made another spec top dps?
    If you get to level 85 as a priest and realize you don't like it, what do you do? You reroll.
    This is how mmos work. You don't get a free rogue because you liked healing and shadow dps less than expected.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by PuliGT View Post
    So you would support WoW having the option to change my Priest (Healer/Caster DPS) to a Warrior (Tank/Melee DPS). I would not.

    You are comparing apples with oranges. WoW's questing/story system isn't determined by the player's class; SWTOR is. In WoW, a Priest is a completely different class than a Warrior with different morals, ethics, beliefs, views, different teachings, different fighting style, different reasons for fights, etc. In SWTOR a Sniper and an Operative are both Imperial Agents with the same everything but weapons.

    ---------- Post added 2011-10-18 at 09:17 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Klur View Post
    Apples to oranges.

    Priests and warriors have nothing in common.

    A Sith Warrior going juggernaut or marauder is similar to a war going arms or fury. It's all a branching tree.

    Sith Warrior- Marauder or Jugernaut- 2 trees each and 1 shared

    Warrior- arms, fury, or prot

    priest- holy, disc, shadow

    No overlap in wow.

    Crappy diagram ftw!

    Mostly I'm concerned about the time sink of this game. I don't have hours upon hours to play anymore, and I don't want to level a character for months, only to find out that I should have went Assassin instead of Sorcerer.

    edit: the formatting got all mess up :\

    And whats the difference between changing AC at 10 -20 or changing at 50?

    Damnit, you beat me to it >_<
    "It's not what we don't know that gets us into trouble; it's what we know for sure that just ain't so." ~Mark Twain
    "The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time" ~Jesus Christ

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Klur View Post
    Apples to oranges.

    Priests and warriors have nothing in common.

    A Sith Warrior going juggernaut or marauder is similar to a war going arms or fury. It's all a branching tree.

    Sith Warrior- Marauder or Jugernaut- 2 trees each and 1 shared

    Warrior- arms, fury, or prot

    priest- holy, disc, shadow

    No overlap in wow.

    Crappy diagram ftw!

    Mostly I'm concerned about the time sink of this game. I don't have hours upon hours to play anymore, and I don't want to level a character for months, only to find out that I should have went Assassin instead of Sorcerer.

    edit: the formatting got all mess up :\

    And whats the difference between changing AC at 10 -20 or changing at 50?
    Seems as though there is no point in a continued discussion. You're mind seems made up, but I guess mine is as well. I can only hope that there are more people who share my opinion than yours.

    The reason other people (read: not me) support allowing AC change at low levels is to allow people who've just made a mistake in choosing their AC to not have to start all the way at level 1. Personally, I think this type of thinking just enables poor decision makers. Just leads to further down the line people expecting others to fix their mistakes.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Klur View Post
    Apples to oranges.

    Priests and warriors have nothing in common.

    A Sith Warrior going juggernaut or marauder is similar to a war going arms or fury. It's all a branching tree.

    Sith Warrior- Marauder or Jugernaut- 2 trees each and 1 shared

    Warrior- arms, fury, or prot

    priest- holy, disc, shadow

    No overlap in wow.

    Crappy diagram ftw!

    Mostly I'm concerned about the time sink of this game. I don't have hours upon hours to play anymore, and I don't want to level a character for months, only to find out that I should have went Assassin instead of Sorcerer.

    edit: the formatting got all mess up :\

    And whats the difference between changing AC at 10 -20 or changing at 50?
    You're basically saying "I dont know if I want to melee dps and tank or ranged dps and heal!"
    I actually like that this game lacks a druid

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Sengura View Post
    You are comparing apples with oranges. WoW's questing/story system isn't determined by the player's class; SWTOR is. In WoW, a Priest is a completely different class than a Warrior with different morals, ethics, beliefs, views, different teachings, different fighting style, different reasons for fights, etc. In SWTOR a Sniper and an Operative are both Imperial Agents with the same everything but weapons.

    ---------- Post added 2011-10-18 at 09:17 PM ----------




    Damnit, you beat me to it >_<
    I assure you, the difference between an Imperial Agent Operative and an Imperial Agent Sniper is more than just weapons.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by KvanCetre View Post
    If you get to level 85 as a priest and realize you don't like it, what do you do? You reroll.
    This is how mmos work. You don't get a free rogue because you liked healing and shadow dps less than expected.
    Again with the apples and oranges. They aren't the same dude. I'll tell you what, if you want to reroll because you didn't like a particular AC, then go right ahead and reroll. Just let those with the credits who don't want to reroll have the option of switching to the other AC. It's not class switching, they will still be limited to being within the 8 major classes.


    There, problem solved, both sides are happy. Reroll if you don't want to spend the money but don't mind putting in the time and AC switch if you don't mind spending the money and don't want to experience the exact same story over again.
    "It's not what we don't know that gets us into trouble; it's what we know for sure that just ain't so." ~Mark Twain
    "The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time" ~Jesus Christ

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Sengura View Post
    There, problem solved, both sides are happy. Reroll if you don't want to spend the money but don't mind putting in the time and AC switch if you don't mind spending the money and don't want to experience the exact same story over again.
    Isn't this a old way of thinking though in the era of Rift and WoW dual spec? I mean consider it now. Raid spec, pvp spec, and solo pve spec all will probably have different builds. I have said it before it literally make no sense dual spec is not in the game. This is 2011 not pre 2005

    ToR is really the only major MMO that I know of even suggesting this. TSW and GW2 are both going the multiple build option route.
    http://raptr.com/puremallace/about

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  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Sengura View Post
    Again with the apples and oranges. They aren't the same dude. I'll tell you what, if you want to reroll because you didn't like a particular AC, then go right ahead and reroll. Just let those with the credits who don't want to reroll have the option of switching to the other AC. It's not class switching, they will still be limited to being within the 8 major classes.


    There, problem solved, both sides are happy. Reroll if you don't want to spend the money but don't mind putting in the time and AC switch if you don't mind spending the money and don't want to experience the exact same story over again.
    Your class story only makes up about 15% of the questing once you reach higher levels. You'll be experiencing a lot of the same content every time you play a new character, whether they have the same base class or not.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by PuliGT View Post
    Your class story only makes up about 15% of the questing once you reach higher levels. You'll be experiencing a lot of the same content every time you play a new character, whether they have the same base class or not.
    All the more reason not to have to reroll needlessly.
    "It's not what we don't know that gets us into trouble; it's what we know for sure that just ain't so." ~Mark Twain
    "The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time" ~Jesus Christ

  17. #37
    Would anybody like to clear up what "AC" actually means? Some people think its means switching between specs and some people seem to think its switching classes.

  18. #38
    What I think alot of people are missing out on is that the devs have already said the the 1st act for each class will take as long as KotoR to complete. Each class has 3 acts. It's not gonna be like WoW where you can level a toon in a week if you are really dedicated. It'll be more comparable to WoW vanilla leveling, and even then it sounds like it's gonna be more time consuming.

    It's not an issue about what role I want to play. I've never chosen a class based on "I want to tank, or dps, or whatever." I've always based my decisions on the aesthetics of the class. I like the idea of the "in your face" warrior. It's why I play one. I like the idea of the sneaky assassin, it's why I play a rogue. I like the aesthetic of the "Paragon of justice" but I don't care much for the way Paladins play, it's why mine sits at 63. I like the idea of the malicious and cruel dark Death Knight, but again, the mechanics are meh so it sits at 80. The same can be said of every other class I've leveld to 20-50 and now just sits at my character select screen.

    The key difference is that I can get to a decent lv and figure out whether I like a class or not in a few short days. Maybe it'll be the same for TOR, but from what I've seen or heard it doesn't seem likely.

    I actually already no without a doubt what my first class will be. But if I want to try out a Sith Marauder later on I don't want to level another Soth warrior to try it. That's time I could be spending leveling an Assassin or Powertech.

    @Kieran: it's sort of in between. You choose your class, ie. Sith Warrior, then choose your AC (for SW it'll be Juggernaut or Marauder) then each AC has 3 talent trees, 2 unique and 1 shared between both AC. For instance I plan on playing a Vengeance Sith Warrior Juggernaut.
    Last edited by Klur; 2011-10-18 at 09:41 PM.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Klur View Post
    Apples to oranges.

    Priests and warriors have nothing in common.

    A Sith Warrior going juggernaut or marauder is similar to a war going arms or fury. It's all a branching tree.

    Sith Warrior- Marauder or Jugernaut- 2 trees each and 1 shared

    Warrior- arms, fury, or prot

    And whats the difference between changing AC at 10 -20 or changing at 50?
    The sith warrior is similar in these terms but what about the other classes.....
    a Sith Sorceror is basically nothing like a Sith Assassin
    Powertech and Merc ACs are totally different Heal/DPS and Tank/DPS
    Sniper and Operative Pure DPS / Heal/DPS

    The difference between changing pre 20, is you have ample time to figure out whether or not the AC is for you or not and pick your path before you venture on.

    And to those saying that the game is story driven, it doesn't follow any logical lore that you would train in a certain branch of skills or the force and then all of a sudden at max level switch and be FULLY trained in a totally different branch.

    This issue could be part of the legacy system, if you get one AC of a class to 50 and you want to level the second AC of that class then you get X% bonus XP or something to speed it along.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran View Post
    Would anybody like to clear up what "AC" actually means? Some people think its means switching between specs and some people seem to think its switching classes.
    AC means Advanced Class.

    Using smuggler as an example, you have Scoundrel and Gunslinger. Changing AC lets you switch from one to another.

    Unfortunately a lot of players seem to think it means you can switch your character into a Jedi or Trooper.

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