Page 1 of 2
1
2
LastLast
  1. #1
    I am Murloc! gaymer77's Avatar
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Central California
    Posts
    5,218

    Angry Judge orders baby returned to mother in custody dispute involving Indian tribe

    SOURCE

    A child-custody case in Florida has erupted into a battle between state officials and a Native American tribe after a couple complained that their newborn was snatched from a hospital by tribal police based on bogus accusations made by the grandmother, who allegedly does not like the father because he's white.

    Rebecca Sanders, a member of the Miccosukee tribe, and Justin Johnson say tribal police came to Baptist Hospital in Kendall, Florida, and took their baby girl, Ingrid Ronan Johnson, two days after her birth on March 14.

    A tribal judge granted custody of the baby and Sanders two other children to Sanders' mother, Betty Osceola.

    During an emergency closed-door hearing Thursday afternoon, a tribal judge ordered Osceola to give the infant back to Sanders once the mother has arranged safety measures ordered by the court, Osceola's lawyer, Spencer West, told ABC News.

    West said Osceola will maintain custody of Sanders two older children, a 12-year-old boy and an 11-year-old girl, but that Sanders will have visitation rights.

    Sanders’ attorney, Bradford Cohen, told ABC News he believes the tribal court ultimately made the right decision because he says the court order it issued was not legal.

    “In my opinion, the way that it was executed, how it was executed, what was in it, and the name that was on it, I don’t believe it was [legal],” Cohen said.

    He went on to add that he believed the order was, in a sense, a “pickup order” for the baby. Since there is no valid U.S. penal code allowing that type of order “without going through the courts of that state,” the order was not valid, Cohen stated.

    In addition, the name on the order was incorrect, Cohen said. The baby’s name is Ingrid Ronan, but the name was listed as “Ronan Ingrid Johnson” on the order, according to Cohen.

    “If I go to a bank, and I present the check with my name spelled wrong, they’re gonna give it back to me,” he said. “This is a baby. No hospital should have handed over a baby with an order that wasn’t certified, by the way -- they got a photocopy of the order -- and an order where the baby’s name is incorrect.”

    The tribal court is a “different court” than what most U.S. citizens are accustomed to, Cohen said. Thursday’s hearing involved two tribal judges, a pew full of elders and a social services worker from the tribe, and “everyone gets a chance to speak.”

    Cohen called the tribal court’s decision to return the baby “100 percent correct.”

    The ordeal began on March 16, when Micosukee tribe police went Baptist Hospital in the Miami suburb of Kendall and took Sanders' baby from her.

    "A police officer and a few security guards came into the room and were talking to me, asking me if I knew what was going on. And I said I didn't know what was going on. He told me that I no longer have custody of my daughter," Sanders, 28, said at a news conference on Wednesday.

    Sen. Marco Rubio, R-Fla., said the tribal police had no right to take Sanders' baby, arguing they used the tribal court to "kidnap" the newborn from a hospital in the Miami-Dade County jurisdiction.
    This is bullshit on the actions of the grandmother and the tribal police. I hate the man with a passion but I agree with Marco Rubio and that this was a kidnapping using tribal police. That lady's other 2 kids should have been returned as well but glad to hear she at least got the newborn back.

  2. #2
    Old God Vash The Stampede's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Better part of NJ
    Posts
    10,939
    Quote Originally Posted by Boomzy View Post
    The fuck is a tribal court?

    What century are we living in?
    That's what I was wondering. What assbackwards part of the world is still in Florida?

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Dukenukemx View Post
    That's what I was wondering. What assbackwards part of the world is still in Florida?
    Indian Reservations basically function under their own governments.

  4. #4
    Read about this earlier, what a shitty thing for that tribe to try to pull. They seriously just kidnapped a baby without any resistance.

  5. #5
    Brewmaster Natta Lmo's Avatar
    5+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    bangkok thailand
    Posts
    1,399
    why do u say indian when they are native american?

  6. #6
    Old God Vash The Stampede's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Better part of NJ
    Posts
    10,939
    Quote Originally Posted by Atethecat View Post
    Indian Reservations basically function under their own governments.
    Does that automatically mean their rights override American rights? Something seems very wrong here.

  7. #7
    Indians are from India.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Dukenukemx View Post
    Does that automatically mean their rights override American rights? Something seems very wrong here.
    They seem more American to me in the first place.
    Modern gaming apologist: I once tasted diarrhea so shit is fine.

    "People who alter or destroy works of art and our cultural heritage for profit or as an excercise of power, are barbarians" - George Lucas 1988

  9. #9
    Tribes have limited sovereignty, similar to a state's sovereignty. That's why there are indian casinos.
    .

    "This will be a fight against overwhelming odds from which survival cannot be expected. We will do what damage we can."

    -- Capt. Copeland

  10. #10
    Stood in the Fire The5thVegetable's Avatar
    7+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    A place no one will hear you scream
    Posts
    411
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul - Thrall View Post
    Indians are from India.
    Quote Originally Posted by Natta Lmo View Post
    why do u say indian when they are native american?
    Whilst I would agree that "Native-american" would be the better term, essentially, when America was discovered by colombus, he mistook the natives for inidans because he thought he'd traveled across the world and gone to india. And the name stuck.
    Why do I even bother to post on this damned site?

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by The5thVegetable View Post
    Whilst I would agree that "Native-american" would be the better term, essentially, when America was discovered by colombus, he mistook the natives for inidans because he thought he'd traveled across the world and gone to india. And the name stuck.

    I know. Columbus was wrong then, and the ignorant are wrong now.

  12. #12
    Scarab Lord Mister Cheese's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    4,620
    Quote Originally Posted by Natta Lmo View Post
    why do u say indian when they are native american?
    Nobody says that. Indians don't even refer to themselves as such. They either say "Injun" or say whatever tribe they are from.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Boomzy View Post
    Their land doesn't include children.
    Actually it does, mostly because both the USA and Canada have a history of forced housing and taking kids away from tribes so they were privileged to get specific laws to combat that.

    https://www.americanbar.org/newslett...elfareact.html

    Mostly what the law boils down to is that if there is a tribal child in need then the first place law enforcement must look to place the child is with the tribe. This overrides even closely related family - so like if parents die in a car crash a tribal uncle/aunt would have more claim to the child than say a non-tribal grandparent or possibly even non-tribal older sibling.

    It's to ensure that any children of the tribe can grow up in that tribe and heritage.

  14. #14
    I am Murloc! gaymer77's Avatar
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Central California
    Posts
    5,218
    Quote Originally Posted by Natta Lmo View Post
    why do u say indian when they are native american?
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul - Thrall View Post
    Indians are from India.
    Native American wouldn't fit in the title so I used Indian instead because people understand what that means.

  15. #15
    Most Native Americans refer to themselves as Indians. It's a commonly used work here in the Americas. We don't use the term Native American often, unless in formal situations. It'd be like calling a white guy, Caucasian. Proper, but a little awkward in regular conversation.

  16. #16
    Thankfully the child was returned to its parents.

  17. #17
    Merely a Setback Sunseeker's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    In the state of Denial.
    Posts
    27,075
    Gonna be that guy: "Reservations" should be abolished. Distribute up the land among the currently registered members and be done with it. If the members want to organize all their land together, live in tight-knit communities like many Asian Americans do, they are more than welcome to, but no more tribal courts, no more tribal police, no more weird "nations but not nations" within the USA.
    Human progress isn't measured by industry. It's measured by the value you place on a life.

    Just, be kind.

  18. #18
    Why doesn't she have custody of her other children? Seems like we may be missing a part of the story.
    “The biggest communication problem is we do not listen to understand. We listen to reply,” Stephen Covey.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    Gonna be that guy: "Reservations" should be abolished. Distribute up the land among the currently registered members and be done with it. If the members want to organize all their land together, live in tight-knit communities like many Asian Americans do, they are more than welcome to, but no more tribal courts, no more tribal police, no more weird "nations but not nations" within the USA.
    So we should abolish cities, counties and states as well?

    America is built of 50 small countries each called a state, it's one of the reasons why electoral college is so weird because it is basically each state voting separately. There are at present ZERO federal elections.

    Also each state makes their own laws, has their own police - separate from the federal police agencies - has their own courts both civil and criminal and is a nation unto itself capable of making their own sovereign laws.

    I know you think you're being all talking it like it is and edgelord but you don't appear to have a grasp of the basic structure of the USA.

    It's because we have a federal, state, county system that you can get things like dry counties, legalized marijuana, laws restricting interstate commerce, cities able to set their own specific laws and so on. Suggesting the abolishment of native states is incredibly shortsighted and built around not knowing how this country is put together.

    Also if you really think they have all these fancy special privileges you're quite mistaken. Most every law built to protect native american lands and rights isn't even done on "the res" but is a product of federal legislation.

    Tribal lands have FAR less autonomy than normal states and are basically wards of the federal government with the majority of their victories being the result of court action than actual legislation. And even then the courts have swung wildly from the time of reservation inception based on racism and manifest destiny.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by noidentity View Post
    Thankfully the child was returned to its parents.
    That might not actually be a good thing. I'm curious why she doesn't have custody of her other children.

    West said Osceola will maintain custody of Sanders two older children, a 12-year-old boy and an 11-year-old girl, but that Sanders will have visitation rights.
    “The biggest communication problem is we do not listen to understand. We listen to reply,” Stephen Covey.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •