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  1. #141
    Elemental Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Good Captain View Post
    INote the second clause. That little ditty clarifies the effective potential of the buff.
    Its ambiguous. The first part states you get Veneration while in an area affected by Consceration. The second states it lasts 6s.

    It could mean you get affected by Veneration and retain it even after leaving the Consecrated area. Which makes sense.

    Or it could mean, it lasts for 6s if you stay in the Consecrated area and vanishes if you leave it. Which also makes sense.

    It really depends on what Blizzard wants this effect to do. As a quick clear for a clustered group of melee, for example, it doesn't need to persist.

    Now, while I can surmise how it will likely act, and how Blizzard intends for it to act, tooltips have tripped people up before. Which part of the tooltip take precedence here is not known. Therefore we don't know for sure how it will act. It may last for 6s regardless; it may last for 6s if and only if you spent that time within the Consecrated circle.

    Your interpretation is likely correct, but its far too early to say with certainty. After all, if Consecration causes veneration only to those within its area....what happens when you leave?

    EJL

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    Your interpretation is likely correct, but its far too early to say with certainty. After all, if Consecration causes veneration only to those within its area....what happens when you leave?

    EJL
    What happens when you leave it?
    Exactly what happens when we use Judgement; it 'causes' Replenishment on players affected by it, just as (according to the tooltip) Consecration 'causes' Veneration on players within range of the cast, it isn't vague at all. The only real difference is Judgement simply selects ten party members in your group, whereas Consecration seems to instill anyone within range the Veneration effect. It lasts six seconds following the cast, the buff remains when you move out of it (to simply 'last' six seconds within the static perimeter of an eight second AoE effect is ridiculous by any stretch of the imagination). I mean, Replenishment doesn't just vanish when a player moves out of the effective range of the Judger, it doesn't even fade in the event the Paladin that Judged dies, it remains for its duration.

    Think of situations where it's ideal to charge a caster; Consecrate (keep running), Judge: inflict Judgement of Justice's speed debuff/gain LAotL, and go nuts with, say, Holy Avenger. That it lasts six seconds implies that something to that effect is what they're building Ret' up to. I hear ya', though; whether or not this comes to fruition is another beast entirely. However, I haven't any doubt it works exactly as it reads (Replenishment uses the same terming, we can assume it functions as that does). Ya' just gotta use a little common sense, man, I mean that with respect.

    Frankly, the only question is whether its dispellable. In which case, it's little more than an expensive, flamboyant trash buff that simply appears more epic than it is. In any case, it looks like most melee are getting an effect like this in some form or other (Deathknights, for instance).
    A voice replied...

    "Not by the hair on my Wrynny chin chin."

    And then Varian Chintercepted Garrosh's cast, then sliced the orcs head off. 24 hours later he was found riding Deathwing over Orgrimmar, burning the city to the ground, laughing maniacally.

  3. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Good Captain View Post
    Exactly what happens when we use Judgement; it 'causes' Replenishment on players affected by it, just as (according to the tooltip) Consecration 'causes' Veneration on players within range of the cast, it isn't vague at all.
    No...it is. Veneration is caused by Consecration.

    While you are likely correct, the tooltip is ambiguous. You gain Veneration while you are affected by Consecration and veneration lasts 6s.

    Does it last 6s so long as you are within Consecrations RoE? That is, as a side effect of Consecration? Or does it cause Veneration independently of Consecration? Also unanswered is whether you can move into Consecration to gain the buff.

    I mean, Replenishment doesn't just vanish when a player moves out of the effective range of the Judger,
    Judgement is not a persistent effect so no link can be made. Both Veneration and Consecration ARE persistent effects and it would be simple to create such a link. Judgement provided Replenishment as a means to provide a ceratin benefit. The nature of that benefit would be largely negated tying in ranged recipients to a Judgement range of 10 yards. Depending on how Blizzrad sees this efefct being used, and how it views the bvalance issues, there is no such issue with Veneration being tied to the static AoE effect of Consecration.

    Think of situations where it's ideal to charge a caster; Consecrate (keep running), Judge: inflict Judgement of Justice's speed debuff/gain LAotL, and go nuts with, say, Holy Avenger. That it lasts six seconds implies that something to that effect is what they're building Ret' up to.
    6s with a 4s sprint effect via LAotL to replace a self only HoF that apparently still exists.

    They could also be envisaging situations where there are mass roots and a need to clear them off the melee and other players close by....but aren't willing to let the effect substitute for a charge mechanic in PvP.

    As I said..you are likely correct. But it is too early to say that you are.

    EJL

  4. #144
    Havnt finished reading the last few pages, but wanted to point out a few things i noticed people had problems with on the first 5, sorry if this is old news by now..

    They have said holy wrath is no longer a ret skill and that skills such as hammer of wrath, judgment, crusader strike, and other skills that make sense will grant holy power, they have also said that Fist of Justice (like the new DK Asphyxiation) is an improved hammer of justice, IE: you pick it and THEN you lose Hammer of Justice to gain a 6 second stun with longer range and a shorter cooldown, however you can have the Repentance and hammer of justice (60 second cd, shorter range).

    Both of these were talked about in the Live Q&A they had online a few days ago. You can read through the mmo-champion script of it if you want.

  5. #145
    Elemental Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by IEatRoflWafflz View Post
    Havnt finished reading the last few pages, but wanted to point out a few things i noticed people had problems with on the first 5, sorry if this is old news by now..

    They have said holy wrath is no longer a ret skill and that skills such as hammer of wrath, judgment, crusader strike, and other skills that make sense will grant holy power, they have also said that Fist of Justice (like the new DK Asphyxiation) is an improved hammer of justice, IE: you pick it and THEN you lose Hammer of Justice to gain a 6 second stun with longer range and a shorter cooldown, however you can have the Repentance and hammer of justice (60 second cd, shorter range).

    Both of these were talked about in the Live Q&A they had online a few days ago. You can read through the mmo-champion script of it if you want.
    What that tells me is that HP generation is being sped up, but with HoW still being an Execute you get CS>>Filler>>>then it depends on CS' CD. Possibly 3s, with Judgement and Exo procs filliing in the gaps.

    Depressing if that were true.

    EJL

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by The Good Captain View Post
    *snip*
    Yea. In retrospect, I'm definitely thinking I was pretty wrong. Whoops. That can certainly make it much more useful than I originally thought. I'll definitely admit that I screwed the pooch on this one

    Also, in a related discussion, I'd love to see your cut/paste version of those documents. Should make hilarious reading

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonuts View Post
    Yea. In retrospect, I'm definitely thinking I was pretty wrong. Whoops. That can certainly make it much more useful than I originally thought. I'll definitely admit that I screwed the pooch on this one

    Also, in a related discussion, I'd love to see your cut/paste version of those documents. Should make hilarious reading
    In pve, hardly. I mean sure it might work beter then you expected. But except for some gimmick fight where you a) Cluster up and b) all get mass slowed/snared, veneration has very little use. And i doubt they will balance a fight around needing Veneration. So if such a fight even excists, it might not even be needed to have Veneration and itll not be more then a little boost.
    What springs to mind is Shade of Aran in Kara. Who did an aoe slow and then you had to run away to avoid the aoe. It wouldve helped in such a fight, but even with the slow it was still very easy to outrun the aoe. So it wouldnt have added alot, if a retarted kept dpsing and not moving he wouldve died just as easily.

    Its strength lies in rbgs. Where you could potentially free alot of allies from those damn aoe slows and snares. But even there its a situational use.

  8. #148
    Immortal Frozen Death Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shnider View Post
    why do i feel that veneration is utterly useless :P
    some1 tell me what's the advantages it seems to me that we won't benifet much from it as long as consecration is still standing
    i mean i would have to run within my own consecration in order to not get rooted or freezed which goes against for what it suppose to do. which makes you have more mobility. sounds epic to me when they introduced veneration i was LMAO when i read it and it was very epic. it sounded to me like this "we finally fixed paladin mobility but only within 10 yards area for 6 sec :P

    ---------- Post added 2011-11-01 at 03:50 PM ----------

    other than that. i'm very very very satisfied with the first Tier 3 holy power +30% extra movement speed
    it's going to be very interesting in PVP
    It is probably one of the most useful utility talents in a PvP group setting, especially in rated BGs. Even if it only lasts a few seconds and is limited to the area the spell is cast upon, it would still be very useful when the spell is pretty much an AoE "Hand of Freedom" that neglects any kind of snare.

    It pretty much counters the AoE snares from DKs, Mages, and Hunters. Just stand right ontop of the AoE and poof, the enemy has wasted a CD.
    Last edited by Frozen Death Knight; 2011-11-01 at 04:12 PM.

  9. #149
    Veneration would be fantastic for Ret *if* consecration didnt cost so much mana. If you pick this talent it should make Consecration cost a % less mana to cast. As it is its only viable to take the talent as a Holy Paladin.

  10. #150
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    Give seal of command back with chance on hit k? Thats what we need.

  11. #151
    Herald of the Titans zcks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fend View Post
    Give seal of command back with chance on hit k? Thats what we need.

    This ^ is something we definitely do not need. All it would do is create more reliance on uncontrollable RNG effects.
    The way balancing for WOW PVP works is allot like American politics.
    1: Be lazy & ignore problems till the yelling is so loud your cant concentrate.
    2: Refuse to do the things you have Said need to be done, then make up reasons why they cannot be done.
    3: Lay the blame for problems on someone else even when it's your fault because you did all of the above.

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