**Mists of Pandaria/Class Changes Discussion**

[Deleted]

I just want to say this again: THERE IS MORE TO PVE THAN DOING ZILLIONS OF DAMAGE.

Unless the types of fights we have in MoP are significantly different to what we've seen in this expansion, there really isn't.

[Cimster]

As I see it they should do it like this.
Way 1: Fix this talent tree and actually make something usefull.
Way 2: Making a new role into the game: Crowdcontroller, which basicly stands in a corner and do nothing, cus cc is never used in high end raid content.

[Crackleslap]

im LOVING the warlock changes

[Deleted]

Utterly boring and mostly pointless. I really couldn't give a stuff about picking most of those talents, if the intention was to give a difficult choice they have completely failed, since the vast majority are pretty much irrelevant. According to the interview "Several new, overpowered (feeling) talents will be added to the game." None of our talents are overpowered, they are all pretty meh.

[Simca]

I think they just gave the classes that already had the most options in controlling other players (Mages and Rogues) very little new stuff.

[Cimster]

Utterly boring and mostly pointless. I really couldn't give a stuff about picking most of those talents, if the intention was to give a difficult choice they have completely failed, since the vast majority are pretty much irrelevant. According to the interview "Several new, overpowered (feeling) talents will be added to the game." None of our talents are overpowered, they are all pretty meh.

This... word.

[Swizzle]

As said above, when do you ever use those type of utility spells in a raid setting? And for some of us, no there is not haha. I want to put up crazy numbers being as flashy as possible.

A lot...and you still do. Or do you pop Magma Traps and fall to your death? Secondly, your mentality only works if there was never anything coming at the player ever at any time ever. Sadly, that is not the case. There is MUCH more to raiding and PvP than just spamming your damage.

[Ulsaki]

Those new mage talents were utterly attrocious. I can't get the slightest bit excited about being able to regain a few baseline abilities.

T1:
RoF - Baseline
CoC - Baseline, slightly nerfed talented effect
Frostjaw - New, but just a combination of Frost Nova + Improved Counterspell.

T2:
Greater Invisibility - Baseline, talented, and removes 2 dots.
Cauterize - Hey, an actual talent! Allowing you to survive what would kill you once a minute... this could actually be an interesting choice...
Cold Snap - This shows just how little thought went into this. You get an extra Ice Block & Frost Nova every 8 minutes. Oh and you can apparently resummon your Water Elemental. Almost useless, when it currently has quite a lot of use as part of the Frost tree.

T3:
PoM - Talent, not that exciting.
Scorch - Baseline, and why would I want to use a Fire attack in other trees?
Arcane Flows - Revised talent, cast 2 spells on the move.

T4:
Mana shield - Hey, yet another baseline ability (and it's still terrible)! It might throw in an arcane talent as well, but it's still crappy.
Blazing Speed - Well, it is a talent.
Ice Barrier - Talent. Also far superior to mana shield.

T5:
New stuff, but extremely underwhelming. Even with the reduced healing, Sickly Polymorph (ugh, horrible name even if a placeholder) is not really that useful.

T6:
Okay these are all talents, but for level 90 abilities they're just so underwhelming. The pinnacle of levelling for the new expansion and you get a bunch of CC abilities which have existed for years.

[DeveraPM]

They're pretty much making the talent system similar to the Skill system in Diablo 3. Very few choices, you can swap them as you see fit. Similar choices each tier. I'm going to make a wild guess and say glyphs will become more like runestones than they already are. Obviously we're not keeping the glyphs we have because a lot of them are already being incorporated into talents (and probably skills).

While I see how this can work in Diablo 3, and possibly WoW (adding more flexibility), it's drastically different than anything we've seen and I honestly don't feel it will do away with Min/Maxing and "Cookie Cutter" Talents. The only difference is each Boss fight/BG will have an ideal Template for Min/Maxing depending on your role for that fight as x Class.

Edit: WoW will become more about Micro than it already has been. If I wanted micro I'd be playing an RTS.

[McFrotton]

Just to start it off.. What the heck is up with the level 90 abilities? Almost every other class that I've looked at (especially Death Knights) level 90 abilities are something new and awesome. Mage gets Blast Wave, Dragon's Breath, or Slow? Seriously? Something tells me those HAVE to be place holders.

Nothing is final yet MMMMMMKAY period

[Cimster]

A lot...and you still do. Or do you pop Magma Traps and fall to your death? Secondly, your mentality only works if there was never anything coming at the player ever at any time ever. Sadly, that is not the case. There is MUCH more to raiding and PvP than just spamming your damage.

There really isnt more to raiding then doing damage as a mage. Your job is to mash your keyboard and do lots of damage. Your job isnt to keep yourself up, that's the healers job. So yea, Mages job in a raid is DPS'ing.

I can understand if we hafto kite, or chain cc some mobs in a fight, Gluth Naxx. But really, every fight cant we designed like that.

[Sw1tch]

A lot...and you still do. Or do you pop Magma Traps and fall to your death? Secondly, your mentality only works if there was never anything coming at the player ever at any time ever. Sadly, that is not the case. There is MUCH more to raiding and PvP than just spamming your damage.

That's blink (aka nothing to do with the talents). I should have rephrased. NO utility spells on the TALENT tree are of any remote use to PvE mages with the exception of Ice Barrier and sometimes Cauterize. It's kind of funny how nearly every utility spell used by PvE mages are NOT on the talent tree.

[Demonixx187]

Talent Q&A tommorow....if anyone is reading this that is at Blizzcon ask WTF for Mages plz

[nimryas]

I think there's alot more change comming up for mages.. They only reviewed the shaman,druid and warlock class changes, not specs. They also said that they would work on the rotation of some classes and I assume they mean arcane mage by that as well So just because they didnt take the time to go over the mage class doesnt mean they aren't changing it...

I'm a bit dissapointed in the new talent tree as we dont got that much new 'cool' stuff, except for the double sheep thing But this change to the talent tree's could mean an even more viable frost mage for raiding purposes

[Värgen]

Check warlock talent tiers. First cloth tank incoming? Been thinking about this for years for warlock, was thinking we could use a form to tank though, looks like it might be talents instead. (or just OP pvp talents)

[Phair]

I'm pretty sure we will get some interesting new baseline spells and have some of our rotations and mechanics worked on. You all are getting bent out of shape for nothing. I was actually pretty happy to see Cold Snap nerfed and moved out of the frost tree to be accessible to all specializations maybe with a bit of a nerf to control frost will get better options for dealing damage in Pve.

I also can't really think of anything that I'd want as a new talent at all.

[wMw]

So if I pick Blazing Speed I gonna have 0 shields? I have problem making Firelands dailies. Mages are so soft, wth.

[Shinayne]

I came here to say this. Just because our talents look boring and un-interesting, possibly laughable for end talents, does not mean in anyway shape or form mean we won't be getting new fun sparkly shit. There's been a lot of confusion on my realm, people don't seem to be realising that you still chose a spec which will come with base abilities (previously talents, i.e. circle of healing for priests). Talents now are purely to add flavour to the class.

Our "talent flavor", judging by this preview, is apparently "Diet Rice Cake".

[Deleted]

Our "talent flavor", judging by this preview, is apparently "Diet Rice Cake".

This, there is nothing in these talents for pve and for pvp its about choosing which of abilities that we already HAD will hurt most if we lost it. aka we lose a lot and gain nothing, even worse then wotlk->cata changes. time to reroll lock/warrior/monk?

[Deleted]

I just cant belive it ... i cant someone slap me please... I am mage person , always played mages in every game, if this is what blizz got for us for MoP then im gone. SW and new WH40k mmo will be out soon enough and in the end Jedi/Psyker are almost like mages