Paladins - The 5.0 Edition, or How I learned to Talents 2.0

[The Good Captain]

A new expansion, an entirely new Talents system; abilities that were once exlcusive now appear to be more accessible by all specs.


Tier one


Tier two


Tier three


Tier four


Tier five


Tier six


Discuss.

[Andron]

As I wrote in another topic: I'm dissapointed.
Where's the utility to help the raid, like DK with a mass-deathgrip? Where is the fun, like an Avatar-Warrior? And where the hell's the "Wow!".
I also feel like all those talents are far to defensive. When looking at other DPS trees, I feel like they got a lot more choice. Weren't those trees supposed to be like "three DPS talents, then three survival ones, then three for healing and over again". All I see there is "Survival, survival, survival, healing, healing, healing" - and only the last one at 90 is considering DPS.

I do not, by all means, see the fun, hard or interesting choices in this. Not satisfied here.

[The Good Captain]

As I wrote in another topic: I'm dissapointed.
Where's the utility to help the raid, like DK with a mass-deathgrip? Where is the fun, like an Avatar-Warrior? And where the hell's the "Wow!".
I also feel like all those talents are far to defensive. When looking at other DPS trees, I feel like they got a lot more choice. Weren't those trees supposed to be like "three DPS talents, then three survival ones, then three for healing and over again". All I see there is "Survival, survival, survival, healing, healing, healing" - and only the last one at 90 is considering DPS.

I do not, by all means, see the fun, hard or interesting choices in this. Not satisfied here.

But perhaps our DPS-related elements are now baked in? There's a biger picture here, we've pieced a corner of it thus far. DPS are somewhat more difficult to factor into a system like this; survivability, however, can be suggestive, we can each choose what's best according to our scruples. I like that, but admittedly, I feel how you do; it isn't impressive. I see us losing more than gaining what we need here, and they still can't loose their grip on those dilapidated Cataclysm policies and precepts. I hate to say it, but...

It's a ways away. There's still time.

[Valenhil]

As I wrote in another topic: I'm dissapointed.
Where's the utility to help the raid, like DK with a mass-deathgrip? Where is the fun, like an Avatar-Warrior? And where the hell's the "Wow!".
I also feel like all those talents are far to defensive. When looking at other DPS trees, I feel like they got a lot more choice. Weren't those trees supposed to be like "three DPS talents, then three survival ones, then three for healing and over again". All I see there is "Survival, survival, survival, healing, healing, healing" - and only the last one at 90 is considering DPS.

I do not, by all means, see the fun, hard or interesting choices in this. Not satisfied here.

DK has 2 DPS specs and 1 tanking spec, so its talents revolve around Area of effect control and damage, which are not too far apart from each other. the paladin talents also need to factor Healing, so it's only obvious the talents will be less focused, and more will be channeled in the spec-specific abilities.
I like this. Every single talent at least makes you consider picking it, and that's one hell of a step forward.

[Andron]

But perhaps our DPS-related elements are now baked in? There's a biger picture here, we've pieced a corner of it thus far.

This may well be true. However, when looking at other trees, I see alot more talents for all three roles (take the Shaman spell-doubler, Incarnation for Druids, Warrior's Avatar or Deadly Calm, etc). What I see with Paladins by now is a tree centered around two out of three talent specs.
However, I do share your view on the rest of your post.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for "slow down, there's more to come". One could put it like that: I was not utterly amused.
There's the Q&A tomorrow, I'll wait for that and see.

[Fredzilla]

We don't really need two separate threads for the same topic (eg. Reg Sulf vs H Skullstealer)

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...ents-5.0/page2

[The Good Captain]

This may well be true. However, when looking at other trees, I see alot more talents for all three roles (take the Shaman spell-doubler, Incarnation for Druids, Warrior's Avatar or Deadly Calm, etc). What I see with Paladins by now is a tree centered around two out of three talent specs.
However, I do share your view on the rest of your post.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for "slow down, there's more to come". One could put it like that: I was not utterly amused.
There's the Q&A tomorrow, I'll wait for that and see.

Oh, I misspelled **bigger. Anyway, I still recall that quip about Paladins earlier. I don't think they've worked out a design philosophy just yet (or rather, ironed one out) that works in tandem with the talent redesign. Hey, if they can finally (seemingly) get Shammies into a happier way, they may do this right this time. I mean, I almost think they did this thing considering us.

[Talen]

A new expansion, an entirely new Talents system; abilities that were once exlcusive now appear to be more accessible by all specs.

Discuss.

Got to admit...it takes a lot to impress me.

This failed.

We don't know what the class/spec abilities will be....and they'll have big impact....but a talent revamp likely won't solve the issues the class has. As it is, too many options are (currently) too similar...e.g. a choice between mobility boost A, mobility B or mobility C and while Blizzard may be trying to emphasise choice (a good goal) they'll need to do a lot better than this to avoid cookie cutter builds.

Pures will have better success, but Paladins and other hybrids will probably get a greater benefit from a cookie cutter build tailored to their role.

The system itself looks interesting, but a cure for the Paladin it ain't. And while it is early yet, the fact that the talents they chose to publicise are so.....boring....isn't a good sign.

EJL

[The Good Captain]

We don't really need two separate threads for the same topic (eg. Reg Sulf vs H Skullstealer)

Well, I could make it about Ret', then. Although... it's all pretty much the same thing, now. 'Sides, I'd hate to have wasted the time I spent fixing those images.

[Fredzilla]

Well, I could make it about Ret', then. Although... it's all pretty much the same thing, now. 'Sides, I'd hate to have wasted the time I spent fixing those images.

If people are too lazy to look at the main page, that's their own problem. We have enough thread duplication in these forums (paladin, that is), we don't really need any more.

[Deleted]

Got to admit...it takes a lot to impress me.

This failed.

We don't know what the class/spec abilities will be....and they'll have big impact....but a talent revamp likely won't solve the issues the class has. As it is, too many options are (currently) too similar...e.g. a choice between mobility boost A, mobility B or mobility C and while Blizzard may be trying to emphasise choice (a good goal) they'll need to do a lot better than this to avoid cookie cutter builds.

Pures will have better success, but Paladins and other hybrids will probably get a greater benefit from a cookie cutter build tailored to their role.

The system itself looks interesting, but a cure for the Paladin it ain't. And while it is early yet, the fact that the talents they chose to publicise are so.....boring....isn't a good sign.

EJL

I bet you a Pint they will scrap this system entirely.

[Talen]

I bet you a Pint they will scrap this system entirely.

No, they won't.

Its a perk system insteda of a talent system but it needs a lot more work IMO. It ahs a lot of potential, I think...but then so do most iterations of the paladin.

EJL

[The Good Captain]

If people are too lazy to look at the main page, that's their own problem. We have enough thread duplication in these forums (paladin, that is), we don't really need any more.

Calm your tits. We aren't starting a million of these threads a minute as before Cataclysm and Wrath. There are two in the forum at the moment, including this one. And besides that, I actually spent (ie, wasted) the time to post these images, I simply didn't get mine out before Tatsu's (where I've taken the discussion). It'll more'n half likely die if you stop bumping it, anyway. I'd already finished with it, let it be. Posters these days, such egos.

---------- Post added 2011-10-21 at 08:14 PM ----------

I bet you a Pint they will scrap this system entirely.

Eh, this isn't Path of the Titans. Also, of note, the official forum post on the WoW forums places a certain emphasis on the talents' tangibility.

Examples of possible talents for paladins in Mists of Pandaria.