[Official Thread] Mists of Pandaria - Rogue Changes

[the_axi]

Rogues are pretty much screwed imo, well atleast if you look what every other class gets. Rogues dont get much new stuff. + there is no talent specs anymore so hello 2Min cos, 3min vanish and blind (correct me if im wrong about this, seen it on the official site)

Elusiveness is pretty likely to become a glyph, they can't really take it away but I'd be surprised if they gave it to us for free.

[Shockswift11]

1) I think the level 15 abilities are kinda lame and disapointing,
2) level 30 abilities are retarded, have deadly throw removing throwing weapons along with adding [Combat Readiness] to a talent when its already a spell and already has a cooldown with CoS??? [Nerve Strike] seems like the only 1 worth getting and thats for pvp...
3) level 45 abilities disapointing as well, i didnt expect to see [Cheat Death] in another talent tree, [Leeching Posion] seems like a great concept and viable but if your going to add new poisons to game, why make them talented? I'd think it'll be a better idea to add the Poisoner profession from Vanilla and have new quest to be able to make the new posions.
4) level 60 abilities could work but [Preperation] with the mobile aspect of the tree?? [Shadowstep] seems to have no competiton, [Burst of Speed] seems like its only useful for mages considering all the slows they have and will this have the same CD as [Sprint]??
5) level 75 abilities is a good concept but, i don't see them falling that far into the talent tree, maybe level 15? I'd rather see mobility, damage or survivability aspect this far down the tree.
6) level 90 abilites of course, the original; if theres nothing broke dont fix it.

But overall with the new talent trees; i dont really like the new talent tree nor "new abilities" for the rogue class nor do i see a need in dual speccing, unless of course ur pvp from pve but theyre mostly minor changes with what blizzard is giving us to work with now; i hope to see a major change before Pandaria comes out or i am going to be very disapointed and may need to switch to a new MMO - Starwars.

I was also hoping to see a new class ability for everyone at level 90. "Prey"

[marcelos11]

my major problem with the new talent trees, is quite simple: we get a few new toys, but for the most part none of them really "stand out". now, go look at the druid trees for example. COMPLETELY revamped. almost nothing is the same, and they get a lot of badass abilities. when is Blizzard finally going to put the time and effort into rogues that they put into other classes?

[Quave]

As I'm mainly into PVE this is the spec that I will probably be running. Depending on whether they change or not of course..

Tier One: Shadow Focus - Being able to open up in combat without expending any energy, yes please.

Tier Two: Had some trouble deciding for this one, my choices are between Deadly Throw and Nerve Strike. I cut Combat readiness out of the picture as I believe it still shares a cooldown with Cloak of Shadows. So, Deadly Throw is an interrupt which is always helpful or Nerve Strike that allows my Kidney Shot to reduce the targets damage. Probably going with Deadly Throw.

Tier Three: Improved Recuperate - Recuperate has actually saved my ass a few times in PVE, so buffing it would be nice.

Tier Four: Preparation - This one is an obvious choice for me, takes the cooldown off of some of the most useful skills in my arsenal.

Tier Five: Deadly Brew

Tier Six: Vendetta

[spyros2283]

Subtletly with killing spree! that rocks
This is a more solid system than talent trees I think , all ppl have to worry now is what cool skill they will choose not where to spent talent points

---------- Post added 2012-02-08 at 02:56 PM ----------

Rogue changes in 5.0

Spells will be automatically learned, you won't have to go to your trainer anymore.

more like it , its like diablo 3 skill gaining

[Verain]

Our current talent setup for mop looks terrible, simply awful. Rogues currently rely heavily on talent points to be competent in pvp.

Though not many of you are running combat in pvp, go ahead and look at that tree from the perspective of pvp. It actually has some pretty great things.

1)- Glyphed Revealing Strike Kidney Shot is over 8 seconds... or exactly 8 seconds. Either way, this is a very nice glyph in pvp. Does this go away? Apparently RS -> KS doesn't go away, which is thrilling.
2)- Improved Sprint. I see no sign of this in the new universe.
3)- Blade Twisting- this 70% physical snare is a core element of combat pvp. I see no sign of this.
4)- Improved Throw adds an interrupt to deadly throw, which is hilarious against any caster in a BG, but really makes frost mages think about how they deserve to be interrupted. It also adds ranged to throw. No sign of this talent.
5)- The improved armor we don't see yet as a trained skill, though it would make sense to have it. (this is also true of assassination's damage reduction)


So we end up with a lot of things that a pvp combat rogue currently has, but that he will lose, presumably because instead, we can have prep or shadowstep. This is a dramatic downgrade- what SHOULD happen is that combat's unique stuff should get buffed to viability, instead of them just copping out and essentially making us all into nerfed versions of sub rogue.


Again, alpha, blah blah blah. I don't think this is nearly exciting as the other classes, and we lose a dramatic amount of distinction and flavor with this change, while other classes are busy gaining those two things. But there is plenty of time for them to fix it, and blue recently confirmed that another pass on rogue talents was in the works.

[Carp The Fish]

As a night elf, Subtlety PvP is going to be broken for a little while. Here's why:
Gouge -> Shadowstep -> Shadowmeld -> Ambush/Premed macro -> Kidney Shot -> New Killing Spree/Evis Spam

There's no real way to deal with that unless you're playing at a VERY high level (trinketing the Gouge immediately might help you get away). The Gouge lasts long enough to get off the Ambush macro, use Kidney Shot to try to keep the enemy stationary for Find Weakness's duration, then really open up on them with Killing Spree/Evis spam.

[Verain]

1)- What you list above would also work with vanish.
2)- Since shadowstep no longer gives any damage bonus in MOP, leave that out. Now it is better with prep, because you can vanish twice.
3)- I don't see that killing spree will actually be more damage than a shadowdance, but you are correct that it is more energy efficient. Remember that, as written,you have to actually press killing spree manually, and it only hits once- so pretend it's a weak SS that makes 5 CP.

[Tahirii]

Talent Calc has been updated!
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/game/mis...t-calculator#c!

Didn't notice to much in the first 5 tiers, but the 6th tier is all new.
Also a few new class abilities:
We get WF effect at lvl 30 -> Swiftblade's Cunning
Shadow Walk, an improved stealth CD. Not to sure what this will be for.
Shroud of Concealment, sounds like an AoE Group Vanish

[Pope]

Talent Calc has been updated!
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/game/mis...t-calculator#c!

Didn't notice to much in the first 5 tiers, but the 6th tier is all new.
Also a few new class abilities:
We get WF effect at lvl 30 -> Swiftblade's Cunning
Shadow Walk, an improved stealth CD. Not to sure what this will be for.
Shroud of Concealment, sounds like an AoE Group Vanish

Shuriken Toss sounds quite awesome. Finally having a range-CP-generator could come in handy.

Damn, all three 90-talents sound great. Anticipation wastes no CP anymore

[Niyari]

Before anyone bites my head off for doing this (I don't play SWTOR anymore), but Shadow Walk and the new lvl 87 Rogue skill are totally from Operatives. lol

Not that I'm complaining though.

[Dizzarai]

It sounds like Anticipation builds up this anticipation points on the rogue rather than on the target, meaning it also helps drastically in target switching. In the current world it seems particularly useful for Ass/sub since t hen they switch targets there are things they'd like to get up again quickly that will get you those extra points (rupture for instance). IE, in a target switch/burst situation, assassination could build up 5 anticipation points, switch, mutilate once, hit rupture and immediately be able to use a combo point envenom...that's pretty awesome. Unless rupture becomes really useful for combat again combat might not gain as much from this.

[Tahirii]

Or combine that with Redirect -> target switch with 10 CP's ready to go

[shadowboy]

It looks like combat rogues will wanna open with revealing strike instead of sinister strike. My guess is that the sinister strike glyph is going to take the place of the current improved sinister strike talent. I just wonder if revealing strike will be consumed by finishers, or is just an 18 second buff. The wording of revealing strike doesn't say "next offensive finishing move" like the current iteration, so it makes me think it's a debuff you have to maintain on the target and you hit revealing strike when the debuff drops.

The last tier talent looks interesting and I can definitely see the choice you make varying on a fight-by-fight basis. Versatility will have diminished value for combat due to the fact that restless blades still acts on redirect's cooldown. I guess it depends on just how often the target switching is. The tooltip also indicates that bandit's guile is *still* linked to target, and the tooltip for redirect doesn't say anything about bandit's guile insight anymore.

Combat readiness is terrible now, and terrible in the current iteration of the MoP talent tree. It's one of the only rogue spells that scales INVERSELY with gear (the better your gear, the more you dodge, the greater your chance of the stack dropping).

Given that shadowstep will no longer give the mini sprint OR buff ambush damage, it should have its cooldown reduced to 20 seconds. or even 15.

Pve, in first tier you'll want subterfuge as subtlety (higher FW uptime, and possible as assassination, as well for overkill), nightstalker is probably best for combat.

[vbn]

Or combine that with Redirect -> target switch with 10 CP's ready to go

They are the same tier.

edit- too late

[Pope]

They are the same tier.

We still keep redirect.

[Tahirii]

Yeah, fixed that vnb.

Actually I think Versatility might be the best for Combat on some fights, would never have to worry about BG stacks as those can be redirected. Again it depends on how often you are target switching, but I would love it for Madness right now.

Really liking Anticipation for Sub, should be able to fit in an extra Ambush or 2 per SD.

[Dizzarai]

Or combine that with Redirect -> target switch with 10 CP's ready to go

This may not be true...anticipation points may not count as combo points until after a finishing move is performed.

[Tahirii]

Its all theory at this point, but we can hope.

[Swargle]

Before anyone bites my head off for doing this (I don't play SWTOR anymore), but Shadow Walk and the new lvl 87 Rogue skill are totally from Operatives. lol

Not that I'm complaining though.

Actually the level 87 ability is from Illidan in Well of Eternity