Page 1 of 2
1
2
LastLast
  1. #1

    2/2 Nether Vortex, be or not to be ? (Raid)

    Searching for a general opinion on this, since you will see these two point taken in close to all arcane mages speccs,
    but if you think the 2 points in Nether Vortex is worth it or not. (Gives your Arcane Blast 100% to apply slow)

    This considering that all of the 4 tanking classes have and should be applying the debuff to activate the 6% dmg increase in the Torment the Weak.
    (Paladin being the only "one target only" by Judgement)
    Warriors: Thunder Clap
    Paladins: Judgements of the Just
    Druids: Infected Wounds
    Death Knight: Icy Touch
    The rotations/priority of the actual spell applying ofc differ some between the classes, but should be up independent of class within 5sec of the encounter.

    I would like you to not take into account that the two talents could be of benifit while doing dailys, farming, pvping or w/e.
    Only consider a pure raiding specc, were those 2 points may be dropped into Improved Blink/Prismatic Cloak/Improved Arcane Explosion or even Fire Power for example, and imagine a fight like ragnaros hc.

    Or do you sleep better at night when you're 100% sure that your 2nd AB will land on target with 6% dmg increase.

    Im greatful for all your thoughts and input.

  2. #2
    Take it, you need it for fights like Beth'tilac where your attacking the spinners and need to apply the buff yourself. Also in other fights such as Ragnaros transition phase etc.

  3. #3
    Kavan over at elitistjerks has some calculations that shows nether vortex to be a DPS increase. I can't post links but it's post number 276 in the arcane compendium.

    I've personally switched between both points and having only one point a few times and haven't noticed much of a difference. The increase is so small that I don't think it would matter much to anyone other than someone very serious about min-maxing.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Malixer View Post
    Take it, you need it for fights like Beth'tilac where your attacking the spinners and need to apply the buff yourself. Also in other fights such as Ragnaros transition phase etc.
    It can help on Beth sure, but I don't see how it would help on Rag transition phases.

  5. #5
    The Lightbringer Raugnaut's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Frogspoison#1419 Battletag
    Posts
    3,541
    I generally put only 1/2 in Nether Vortex. 3 AB till it lands is the longest I have EVER seen it take to apply, and thats only a very, very slight dps loss.
    Anyone ever notice how the sun seems to shine silverish now? Didn't it used to shine goldish? PM me if you've noticed this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moounter View Post
    I think your problem is a lack of intellect.

  6. #6
    Other than on the Spinners on Beth'Tilac its only relevance to your damage throughput is its chance to proc Arcane Missiles from applying Slow. Given how the higher your gear the lower the frequency in which you are required to clear your Arcane Blast debuff, the usefulness of 2/2 in Nether Vortex decays as you go up in item level. I personally haven't used it for a few good months now, just find the other talents to be more useful.
    Last edited by Ipsissimus; 2011-10-13 at 12:29 AM.

  7. #7
    I go with 1/2, which you should absolutely have. I then go with 2/2 Imp AE and 2/2 Imp Blink. Fire Power 2/2 is theoretically better if you never move and never aoe, but since Ragnaros is only fight I'm concerned with I'm doing both very often


    www.echoes-guild.eu Always Recruiting Exceptional Players! 8/8hc

  8. #8
    I take it. It's a nice quality of life talent. The alternative is IA, which I pick up for Heroic Ragnaros 25 and then respec out of it afterwards.

  9. #9
    It is good because the slow counts as another spell cast and triggers our arcane missiles proc. Which means it's a slight dps increase in conserve phase. As well as a dps increase on adds etc where tank might not apply slows right away (or at all)

  10. #10
    Moderator Wilderness's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Baltimore, MD
    Posts
    3,346
    I don't take it because its only useful in 3 specific cases in FL: Spinners on Beth (which die quickly and easily), Druids on Alys (I'm always flying, but they die fast now post-nerf anyway), and Sons on Rag. In none of those cases do I think the extra 6% damage matters at all. I cannot give up Imp Blink or AE b/c of Rag, and I'd rather have the instant Invis + 4% less damage taken than the slight dps increase on Sons.
    Raids & Dungeons Mod | <Despotism> 14/14H (10-man); 14/14H (25-man); 2 Days/Week US-Greymane <> Recruiting for Mythic

  11. #11
    If you want to keep NV, Imp Blink and AE, drop Master of Elements in the fire tree. At most its about ~120 dps (so sayeth Rawr) and the mana regain is pretty small, comparable to what a mana gem gives you back over a fight, (check your logs to see). The best reason for NV is, as described above, for the extra proc on AM during the Slow application which counts as an extra spell.

  12. #12
    1/2 is optimal imo


    www.echoes-guild.eu Always Recruiting Exceptional Players! 8/8hc

  13. #13
    Moderator Wilderness's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Baltimore, MD
    Posts
    3,346
    Quote Originally Posted by Minimemage View Post
    If you want to keep NV, Imp Blink and AE, drop Master of Elements in the fire tree. At most its about ~120 dps (so sayeth Rawr) and the mana regain is pretty small, comparable to what a mana gem gives you back over a fight, (check your logs to see). The best reason for NV is, as described above, for the extra proc on AM during the Slow application which counts as an extra spell.
    According to this post, 2/2 NV is about the same dps. I guess NV does have the benefit of the slow in those few situations where you don't have it, so that probably tips the scale in its favor.
    Raids & Dungeons Mod | <Despotism> 14/14H (10-man); 14/14H (25-man); 2 Days/Week US-Greymane <> Recruiting for Mythic

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Indium View Post
    Searching for a general opinion on this, since you will see these two point taken in close to all arcane mages speccs,
    but if you think the 2 points in Nether Vortex is worth it or not. (Gives your Arcane Blast 100% to apply slow).
    I have it for every fight except heroic Rag, where I drop it for 2/2 Improved arcane explosion.

  15. #15
    I would say yes go for it, or at the very least go for 1/2 like many better mages than I have said.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Malixer View Post
    Take it, you need it for fights like Beth'tilac where your attacking the spinners and need to apply the buff yourself. Also in other fights such as Ragnaros transition phase etc.
    Hmmm, I would assume as Arcmage you are either on the Drone or up on Beth or on the small spiders... anyways, myselves I went for 1/2 NV, to be able to specc into Improved Blink, improved AE *and* IA. Actually all mages in my guild specced so (after me suggesting this ^^).

  17. #17
    Legendary! Polarthief's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    (USA) Florida
    Posts
    6,538
    Quote Originally Posted by Malixer View Post
    Take it, you need it for fights like Beth'tilac where your attacking the spinners and need to apply the buff yourself. Also in other fights such as Ragnaros transition phase etc.
    You can't slow Spinners. I've tried. (Well you can, but their movement speed is not reducible)

    If you're needing to slow adds in Reg Phase Transitions, something's wrong.

    Retired Veteran Raider: [T14] 10/16H, [T15] 12/13H, [T16] 7/14H
    FFXIV Stuff: i96 WHM/i94 SCH/i84 WAR/i83 BRD; T1-4, Garuda/Titan/Ifrit Xs

  18. #18
    Blademaster Larada's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    48
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon9870 View Post
    You can't slow Spinners. I've tried. (Well you can, but their movement speed is not reducible)

    If you're needing to slow adds in Reg Phase Transitions, something's wrong.
    You're not using it for the actual movement slow, It's for Torment the Weak since they might not have some other slow debuff on them.
    Last edited by Larada; 2011-10-14 at 08:51 AM.

  19. #19
    Bloodsail Admiral Saegno's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Kansas City, Ks
    Posts
    1,013
    Hmmm, I actually dropped it for H rag to pick up 2/3 Firepower and Imp blink.
    If I drop the 2 from firepower and toss 1/2 into into NV would 1/2 IA even be worth it? Imp AE, Pris. Cloak and Imp Blink are required imo for H rag, which we are progressing on(WTB Deluge spawning faster in phase 4 >_> ).

    Edit- My main debate would be 2/3 Fire power vs IA.
    Last edited by Saegno; 2011-10-14 at 09:38 AM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lohe View Post
    If you're semi-hardcore or semi-casual what's the other half? To me, they're both the same thing.
    Canicus - 577 - Arcane Mage - US Mal'Ganis Horde - 12/14H T16

  20. #20
    The Patient Sneglzilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Aalborg
    Posts
    348
    If your progressing on heroic ragnaros, you should without a shred of doubt pick up IA. Theres so much movement involved and using Mage Ward + possibly Mana Shield as an extra cd while moving is a sick dps increase..

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •