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  1. #21
    PVE Holy healer here.

    T1: Void tendril looks incredibly nice/OP, but I would probably still go for the fearbomb. Its an old companionship that I would like to continue, me and Psychic Scream.
    T2: Body and Soul is half the reason I am a holypriest. No competition. But now that I can get this as disc as well... ouch.
    T3: AA would need to be tweaked to be useful for non-disc? Or am I missing something here? Either way, Surge of Light sucks bigtime right now, so Divine Star it is.
    T4: I like having Desperate prayer. So DP it is.
    T5: Test of Faith, Power Infusion or Serendipity? Though choice. But PI is the superior choice. Serendipity costs too much mana, and ToF is not really on par.
    T6: Void shift is effectively a 3 min CD Lay on Hands, if you have full HP. How awesome isn't that? But Vampiric Dominance may just be too good to pass up.
    Non-discipline since 2006. Also: fails. "Chakra, when the walls fell"

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Venith View Post
    3. The wording of Archangel for shadowform makes me wonder if we will still have Dark Evangelism. 4. Surge of Darkness: "... cause your next Mind Blast to be instant cast and have no Shadow Orb cost" - will Mind Blast consume Shadow Orbs instead of using mana, like Holy Power for Paladins?
    I thought the same thing when I read it. What I'm hoping is that they just removed archangels consumption of dark evangelism, because it was annoying to lose that 10% dot damage momentarily after popping archangel (mostly at the start of a fight when you want to pop AA before using your first mind blast but you can't becaues you need to cast dots after getting empowered shadows and if you use AA first you lose 10% damage =[).

    Also @ tier 2. I can't honestly understand why anyone would pick levitate over 60% from body and soul. The burst movement is so nice and doesn't get broken by damage and it can be cast on teammates.

  3. #23
    Scarab Lord Unf's Avatar
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    I'm going with as many old god references on my character as posible.
    Deeps Shadow.

    Void tendrils sounds fun.
    Path of the devout better come with hovering.
    3rd tier sounds tricky. I like wings. Darkness comes light sounds fun.
    Angelic bulward, I like casting a shield on myself.
    Power infusion. I like to have stuff to click for bursts.
    VOID SHIFT because trololol.

  4. #24
    I'm noticing a lack of Atonement. Here's hoping it's baseline for Disc in MoP.
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  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Thetruth1400 View Post
    I see some pretty interesting things for every aspect of play I'd be interested in; All PvE since that's what I play

    [...]
    Shadow -

    Tier 1 - Void Tendrils again. The others don't seem like they are that reliable in PvE as the random nature of psychic scream makes it not to hot to use in dungeons. Same goes for the Psyfiend for the same reason.
    Tier 2 - Honestly, none of these really appeal to me. I guess I would take Body and Soul just because.
    Tier 3 - From Darkness, Comes Light. I think this one offers just the right amount of RNG for my tastes with a promise of increased DPS. Archangel is a close #2 though.
    Tier 4 - Final Prayer. Again, just taking it because it may ease the stress of the healer in situations where they're going to have to choose a player to save instantly. Would be nice to tell them, "Hey, if there's two people about to die, you have a buffer on me so pick them first."
    Tier 5 - Power Infusion. I think the DPS increase from this is a bit too much of a draw to move away from. Twist of Fate may be a great choice too, but without a surefire number of exactly how much more damage is being done, I'm stuck with the one I know for sure.
    Tier 6 - Vampiric Dominance again. The splash healing will really help out in dungeons and raids I think. Vow of Unity is clearly a healer talent, so that goes right out the window here. Void Shift might be interesting, but I'd have to see it in action first.
    This is pretty much exactly what I was thinking. The only thing I'm unsure of is Final Prayer vs. Angelic Bulwark... Final Prayer offers a really nice buffer that you don't have to use a gcd on, but Angelic Bulwark is usable more often and might provide nice synergy with Body and Soul.

  6. #26
    Brewmaster Mazi's Avatar
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    Anyone else totally wanna use Void Shift to kill idiots in randoms constantly? "Here lemme stand in this fire and get low, life grip you to me and then steal your health and give you my 5% and watch you die" muahahahah...

    I LOVE IT ALL!! Tough choices, but all make it great - FINALLY HOLY ARCHANGEL!!!

    Definitely can't wait to see the class/core spec abilities and how they tie in.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by kombucha View Post
    I'm noticing a lack of Atonement. Here's hoping it's baseline for Disc in MoP.
    Highly likely, especially since the devs were actually talking about it during the preview content. You don't see Holy skills in here either, CoH or HW:C

  8. #28
    Brewmaster Mazi's Avatar
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    Yeah it's tough to see the whole picture because we dont' know what's given and taken from different specs by default etc. Can't wait!!

  9. #29
    PI and archangel... wat?

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by kombucha View Post
    I'm noticing a lack of Atonement. Here's hoping it's baseline for Disc in MoP.
    I would say it will be baseline for all 3 specs, or else t3 archangel will be pretty much useless for holy.
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  11. #31
    Have to say, I'm impressed that all abilities (with the potential exception of Archangel, needing more info on Evangelism now) seem to be usable for all three specs, even giving the playstyle differences between Discipline and Holy, let alone the role difference between those two and Shadow.

    Kind of playing around with how I want to build, but I'm surprised at some of the choices that I'd make in a build (for example potentially not taking Power Infusion, as a raid healer, and instead coupling it with Vampiric Dominance)

    ---------- Post added 2011-10-22 at 02:01 AM ----------

    To follow through as a Raid healing Holy Priest, I'm probably going to look at it as follows:

    Tier One (CC): Irrelevant. Probably sticking with Psychic Scream, just because I know who it hits, when it hits, and its "short" cooldown (relatively speaking) means I can make use of it sooner than the counterparts. BUT, it works on things that Tendrils won't. PvP, this could change.

    Tier Two (Movement): Body and Soul. Phantasm for PvP as Discipline though, letting Shield be used for healing rather than running away (plays into their toolkit better anyways). I'd like to see if any changes are planned for Levitate to make Path more interesting. Because it's definitely cool, just not feasible.

    Tier Three (output): Divine Star. Tank healing would probably use From Darkness, Comes Light. I just don't know enough about Archangel's new iteration to see if it'd even be worth it at all, but Divine Star from a raid healer's point of view is significantly huge, as it's a heal that doesn't care about grouping, and it doesn't have the limitations of "smart" heals either. Using a new skill, the Holy Yo-Yo is pretty awesome.

    Tier Four (Survival): Varies. Likely to be Final Prayer on RNG encounters, but Desperate Prayer wins if there's a gap between hits. Final wins in PvP, but Angelic Bulwark might take a step up for Discipline PvP

    Tier Five (Output): Twist of Fate. I'd need to see numbers, but these are the people you need to heal the most, and having bigger numbers here can be a big difference. Serendipity would need a retool for it to pull out ahead, and while I'd like to see this talent switch to tier three, it would remove its synergy with the Surge of Light proc. Power Infusion would be nice, but Holy's always been about bigger numbers, and Twist of Fate is never overheal. Again though, numbers are required.

    Tier Six (Concept): Vampiric Dominion. Especially if it works with Twist of Fate. Vow of Unity can definitely be an interesting tank healing cooldown (I'm curious if it actually is going to have a duration, or if it's just "don't get yourself killed, lasts until cancelled"). Void Shift opens some doors for griefing, and potentially saving someone's butt, but Dominion is like a secondary Echo, more healing en masse, whether your heals landed on that target specifically or not. I can see Prayer of Healing effectively breaking this ability hard, not to mention when you bring in the glyph and echo's healing... yeah.
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  12. #32
    I like the concept they've gone for, it's what I hoped for with cata (those massive big cata trees in alpha... was all about choices)

    However it's going to be completely determined on how well they balance the tiers.

    eg, as shadow;
    power infusion vs execute.

    unless the numbers are very finely tuned one of these options will just 'be better' than the other. especially when you're able to start adding AA with PI, that's some insane burst right there, will the execute + yoyo equal that? will it be fight dependant? All that would mean is that cookie cutter builds still exist, but there's 1 right spec per boss encounter. (use PI+AA for patchwork, use yoyo+execute on add fights / burn phase under 25% etc)
    I just think they'll have to be very careful how they balance those numbers.


    The utility choices are great though. 25% passive speed boost (kinda) vs a short sprint usable on other players, that's an interesting choice and something you may base on which other priests in your raid have it.

    again synergy though, if I had B+S I'd probably take bullwark, if I took the 25% runspeed I'd probably go with final prayer.

    The final talent tree looks a little bit lost as shadow, would like void shift to become a DPS ability also (you deal damage based on your health lost to the target and gain their health %?) It just seems a rather obvious choice to me (Vamp)



    All of the choices look a lot more flexible for healing though, the idea of being a holy priest with PI+AA is nice. But again the consistency of execute + Vamp is very very tasty for pure raid healing.
    Again depending on numbers and mechanics.

    Overall I like the concepts, and most of the talents but I expect an awful lot of changes before release, I doubt we'll see the vast majority of what's there currently.
    Last edited by Redsparowe; 2011-10-22 at 08:48 AM.

  13. #33
    The Patient
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    What would worry me if I was planning to play the expansion is that PW:S (a core spell) was not mentioned.

    Blizzard has always had problems with bubbles and I have a sneaking suspicion that they are going to take this "talent reconstruction" to kill Disc as people know it.

  14. #34
    I'm pretty sure PW:S will still exist, otherwise Body and Soul and Angelic Bulwark wouldn't do much.

    Several spells are not mentioned in the new talent trees because the new talents aren't like what we're used to now. We will get spec specific abilities at appropriate levels simply by choosing the spec at 10; the talents will be in addition to those.

    Edit: Although, that doesn't necessarily mean they won't kill the current Disc (I hope they don't, but we don't have enough information to know yet).
    Last edited by Xendai; 2011-10-22 at 10:53 AM.

  15. #35
    Regarding non-talent choices:

    When it comes to spec abilities, the paladin is already given as an example. I would really assume that on level 22 or whatever, the discpriest gets access to Inner Focus, the holypriest gets access to Lightwell, and the shadowpriest gets access to Shadowform. Every now and then, each specs gets their own unique abilities. For Disc that would be inner focus, pain supression, atonement, divine aegis and barrier. For holy, this would be lightwell, improved death, chakra, circle of healing and guardian spirit. For shadow, it would be shadowform, silence, vampiric touch, psychic horror and dispersion.

    Some passives would have to be spec different passive boons unlocked while levelling, just like the tree-defining abilities. I hope it will be like this: At level 26 or whatever, the discpriest gets a shorter cooldown on shields, while the holypriest gets an instant healing component of renew, and the shadowpriest gets a shorter cooldown on mind blast. At level 46 or whatever, the discpriest gets rapture, the holypriet gets holy concentration, and the shadowprest gets masochism. At level 66 or whatever, the discpriest gets grace, the holypriest gets choir leader, and the shadowpriest gets shadowy apparitions. And so on and so on.

    But I would assume that most passive talents are baked into the abilities. For example; every priest ever takes twin disciplines - might as well increase all numbers by 2% baseline and forget the talent ever existed. Also; there is no point in making talents improving chakra further; just hand out revelations and state of mind when you hand out chakra.
    Non-discipline since 2006. Also: fails. "Chakra, when the walls fell"

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Venith View Post
    Tier 5 - Again, it seems like we're being forced between a DPS cooldowns and an execute phase. There will most likely be a "better" choice between PI and Twist of Fate. Not cool. Granted, if it's as easy to change these as glyphs (as was promised), hopefully it won't be TOO much of an issue depending on the fight.
    PI in tier 5 as shadow priest was the best thing that could happend to me!
    I've never raided with a disc priest and beeing able to have a mini BL from time to time is wicked (esp. if you look at the CD of AA together with PI).

  17. #37
    Stood in the Fire Backreaper's Avatar
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    Shadow PVE:
    Tier1: Void tendrils.
    Works well on group mobs that require a slow like the beth'tilac adds

    Tier2: Body and Soul
    Great movement increase, path of the devout is nice but levitate will still break on damage so it makes it useless on fight where you have to move with aoe damage going out.

    Tier3: Depends on the damage MB does and the RNG of shadow orbs but will most likely have a "best dps choice".

    Tier 4: Final Prayer.
    Automatic shield so you can keep dpsing without having to press a self-heal CD.

    Tier 5: Power infusion.
    almost all classes use execute abilities at 25% so this part really is the smallest part of the fight as oposed to PI which you can use the whole fight.

    Tier6: Vampiric dominance.
    Constant aoe healing, quite a good talent in all situations as oposed to Void shift which i can only see working well on heavy tank damage fights


    "We want to move away from cookie cutter builds"
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  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Thetruth1400 View Post
    Tier 6 - Vampiric Dominance. That splash damage will just make my job so much easier. A 20K heal turns into a 29K heal instantly with that spell.
    befor anybody missinterpretest this: it clearly says it heals 15% of your heal to up to 3 nearby low allys.
    this means, if there's one damaged ally nearby, he'll get healed by 15% of that 20k heal, which is 3k
    if there are 3 damaged allys nearby, they will each get healed by 5%.
    thats how i would understand the wording.

    otherwise that would mean as much as: whenevery there are 3 damaged people nearby, you will heal 45% more.
    which would be absolutley OP as raidhealer :-)
    I even find 15% to be a lot! mini-beacon while tankhealing (when multiple tanks)
    or: PoH heals 6 targets! (just about: 5*0.15 = 0.75)
    and remembers: its smart! I love it now allready :-)
    but I must admit: the other 2 options are great aswell: a tank wall (dunno how usefull because 30% hp-hit-break), and a lay on hands...

    I wonder how powerfull Twisted Faith will be... PI is cool, especially when you can pair it with Archangel.
    but Archangel reads: "Consumes your Evangelism"
    what does that mean? only usable by Disc? or will all speccs get Evangelism? That would be weird for holy, because Evangelism does NOTHING for Holy if you dont get Attonement aswell...

    And how the hell will Divine Star work?? How will that cap out on target limits? Is it gonna be another stupid spell that is epic in 25 because you can hit 25 people twice when stacked up correctly, but crap for 10s?
    If they want to prevent that, they must put some sort of limit or diminishing effect onto it...
    the idea is really cool though!

  19. #39
    Until we see more details on some of those spec talents as well as the new end game content, I wouldn't pick a hard locked spec just yet. Especially for guild challenges, it would be useful to have Void Tendrils cc, etc.

    The one talent that jumps out at me as nice in a raid setting is the top tier Vow of Unity.
    Think about that on a tank, with Beacon of Light on the priest. Using liberal Binding Heal and having Serendipity would make this an insane tank set up. Surely this will get nerfed, as is it's ridiculous.

  20. #40
    vow sounds cool, but somehow the tooltipp isn't very definate...
    it doesn't say anything about a duration, only that it falls off if your target gets a 30%hp hit...

    it would be crazy if that 30% hit wouldnt happen often...
    if it does, its obviously not much help for tankhealing.
    but would be a lifesafer if you have a clumsy fellow raider that cant avoid avoidable dmg ^
    Last edited by TheTrueM4gg0t; 2011-10-22 at 03:59 PM.

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