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  1. #41
    T1: Void Tendrils
    T2: Body and Soul (or Levitate if that spell gets redesigned)
    T3: Depends of damage of Divine Star, if it's crap then From Darkness, Comes Light
    T4: Final Prayer
    T5: Depends on Fight, PI or Twisted Faith
    T6: Vampiric Dominance.

  2. #42
    Up until know, I was always so excited to see whats coming in the next patches, especially the talent trees, that were usually (vanill->bc->wotlk) enlargend, so there was always these new talents, and new 41p/51p abilites I was so eager to see.
    But this expansion, instead of beingexcited: I'm just stunned and shocked...

    What am I as Holypriest getting? Sure, you keep your old talents.
    T1: you can swap your used-to-be-baseline PsychScream with some other CC (not relevant for PvE Healer)
    T2: you can swap your used-to-be-baseline B&S with a weird Levitatebuff or PvP Fade
    T3: you can swap your used-to-be-baseline Surge of Light for something usefull, that used-to-be-baseline Disc: AA, or a new Heal
    T4: you can swap your used-to-be-baseline Desperate Prayer for an auto-shield or a DiscPvP thing.
    T5: you can swap your used-to-be-baseline Serendipity with a sort-of used-to-be-baseline Test of Faith, or Discs PI
    T6: Wow! 3 new cool spells!

    So in the end, I would probably be staying with 3/5 of the used-to-be-baseline (priest/holy) talents(T1,T2,T4), and take 2 of the used-to-be-baseline Disc spells (T3,T5)
    and get one new spell! (maybe two new spells, if Divine Star is usefull in 10m)

    why am I underwhelmed??

  3. #43
    Brewmaster Mazi's Avatar
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    I really think overall people are looking into these too much, without seeing how they relate to class abilities and core spec abilities you really can't know wha tit's giong to be like...

  4. #44
    It looks to me that blizzard is killing off the talent tree/s and I don't think there will be Disc/holy/shadow anymore or at least not defined as a tree. What the whole thing looks like to me is one class, one tree, loads of random talents but useful for how you want to play be it either old disc, holy or shadow.
    It's a unique idea for this style of mmo I think, but I can't help but feel like we are getting less choice in terms of talents but more crossover between what used to be other trees.

    Its actually very much like how the glyph system works except you can choose the ability like say a shadow priest build with PI and barrier. Unless they have a large amount of talents to choose from, otherwise everyone is going to end up using the cookie cutter spec that this change was supposed to prevent.

    I haven't read too much into the new talents it's still too early plus I don't believe they are the only talents to choose from, they have only shown us pre-chosen talents, I would hope that there are at least 10 talents per each tier and you can choose 3 per tier.

  5. #45
    Please tell me they are doing away with the different "chakra" states for the Holy Priest and I may actually return to the game.

  6. #46
    Alright so here's the deal. I'm gonna level a panda to 90 and become a pokemon master, then I'll learn Void Shift and Lifegrip, join a heroic as DPS, at the first possible chance I'm lifegripping the healer in a fire, I'll stay in this fire too and void shift the tank just before I die. The healer will be busy healing himself and the tank will be at 10% HP or something like it.

    Next xpac you guys will get a spell that puts a guardian angel on yourself, sacrificing a random group member if someone lands a killingblow on you. You'll get a spirit link too, that splits 50% of your damage over a number of allies.


    Seriously though, INFINITE TROLLING POSSIBILITIES with Void Shift and Lifegrip combined in the hands of a malicious priest.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by CoolNitro View Post
    It looks to me that blizzard is killing off the talent tree/s and I don't think there will be Disc/holy/shadow anymore or at least not defined as a tree. What the whole thing looks like to me is one class, one tree, loads of random talents but useful for how you want to play be it either old disc, holy or shadow.
    It's a unique idea for this style of mmo I think, but I can't help but feel like we are getting less choice in terms of talents but more crossover between what used to be other trees.
    Well yes, the "killing off" of the 3 speccs would be the next step. but thats nothing new and unique ither, I have played susch a game myself (Allods online, no specc differentiation, you just have one talent tree and you take whatever you want: more survivability/less dps/more heal/some tankskill etc)

  8. #48
    I was excited when I read Blizzard's description of new talent concept... but very disappointed at the actual implementation (so far).
    It read like all of the talents would be utilities, but instead they're just dps cooldowns and etc that will turn out offering no more choice than current talent systems do.
    Also it looks like a great deal of them won't even be usable as shadow unless they change something to allow shadow to cast the heal spells. WTB pure utility in talents.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by CoolNitro View Post
    It looks to me that blizzard is killing off the talent tree/s and I don't think there will be Disc/holy/shadow anymore or at least not defined as a tree. What the whole thing looks like to me is one class, one tree, loads of random talents but useful for how you want to play be it either old disc, holy or shadow.
    It's a unique idea for this style of mmo I think, but I can't help but feel like we are getting less choice in terms of talents but more crossover between what used to be other trees.
    Specs (disc, holy, shadow) still exists. As before, you select a spec at lvl 10.

    The "old talents" will be per spec, and are now handed out passively. For example, a lvl 62 priest in the disc spec may get rapture, while a lvl 62 priest in the holy spec may get holy concentration instead, and a shadowpriest may get masochism. Swap specs, and you get the other set of old talents. The old talents are not going away, you just no longer get a choice of selecting 20 talents out of roughly 24 possible choices. You get all the talents (that blizzard care to keep around). Automatically.

    The real choice is now in the "new talents". These are per class. Some of the old talents moved into the new talent pool, and will of course not be part of the passive spec-bonuses you gain. I also suspect that most catch-all passive abilities like twin disciplines will go away completely.

    In the new talent pool, you have 3^6 choices, and while some may be better for a given spec, it is much more important to pick something fitting your playstyle. The old system allowed 2-3 decent specs. If you did anything else, you did it wrong. The new system ideally does not have a "wrong" spec whatsoever. We'll see if that works out, but at least there is more than 2-3 choices now. Which is why I like this new system.

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment

    Class Talents vs. Specialization Abilities

    So what does this mean for important spec-based spells and abilities like Hammer of the Righteous and Circle of Healing?

    At level 10, players will still select a specialization and unlock an iconic class specialization ability. As players level up, they will then automatically learn both class-based and specialization-specific abilities at set intervals. The specialization abilities you learn will be largely comprised of old talents we feel players should have, as well as core class abilities that not every spec needs.

    For example, for a level 25 Protection paladin, his or her training list may look a little something like this:
    Level 10: Avenger's Shield (Protection ability)
    Judgments of the Wise (Protection ability)
    Level 12: Rightous Fury (Class ability)
    Level 13: Redemption (Class ability)
    Level 14: Flash of Light (Class ability)
    Level 15: Hand of Reckoning (Class ability)
    Level 16: Lay on Hands (Class ability)
    Level 18: Divine Shield (Class ability)
    Level 20: Hammer of the Righteous (Protection ability)
    Level 22: Supplication (Class ability)
    Level 24: Consecration (Class ability)

    These spells and abilities will be trained in the field, appearing immediately in players' spellbooks once they reach the appropriate level. As a result, there will no longer be a need to visit class trainers save to re-spec or purchase Dual Specialization, keeping players engaged and doing what they enjoy.

    With this new method of distributing abilities, we can ensure that players are receiving role-defining talents at levels that make sense and will benefit them the most as well as deliver fun and meaningful choices along the way.
    Source: http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/2...-talent-system
    Last edited by Danner; 2011-10-22 at 06:30 PM.
    Non-discipline since 2006. Also: fails. "Chakra, when the walls fell"

  10. #50
    I figured I'd do some backtrack work to see how the Priest abilities will look like for class-wide versus spec only, similar to Danner's quote about Pallies' abilities.

    First, we can look at the new talent trees. If they're serious about wanting every spec to be able to use any of those talents, every ability in those has to be useable by all priests, regardless of spec. That means we're definitely going to have:
    Power Word: Shield (Tier 2)
    Levitate (Tier 2)
    Fade (Tier 2)
    Smite (Tier 3)
    Heal (Tier 3)
    Flash Heal (Tier 3)
    Binding Heal (Tier 3)
    Greater Heal (Tier 3)
    Prayer of Healing (Tier 5)

    That's consistent with the way priests are now. However, there's an important note to make from gleaning this: we cannot be sure of any abilities listed to have different effects for non-shadow and shadow (Archangel; From Darkness, Light; and Serendipity). I listed the heals because those have been baseline for priests for quite a while, and I don't see Blizz taking any heals away from priests who level as shadow. However, we don't know if Shadow will have Evangelism (AA consumes orbs) or if disc/holy will have Shadow orbs (unlikely, it's in shadow's passives).

    We can also determine that Psychic Scream is no longer a base ability because it's a tier 1 talent. Vampiric Embrace is also probably scrapped since Vampiric Domination is a tier 6 talent.... but there might be significance in the fact that it has a similar, but different name.

    Moving on from the talents, and onto specs.

    Let's look at the talent trees as they are now. Just looking at the spec options, we can probably assume that the spells associated with each spec are still going to be unique to choosing that spec. Masteries will probably also be the same (or similar after minor tweaking).

    Here are my guesses for what spells will be unique to a spec, but trained rather than talented once we get 5.0. It's based on the fact that the talents are too high in the tree for any other spec to reach or that it's added when choosing a spec. I'm not listing ones that temporarily increase stats (such as Borrowed Time) because those seem more likely to be changed and not really "trainable" things.

    Totally take this with a grain of salt. I'm just giving a list of what I think we'd be working with in each spec.

    Disc Only:
    - Penance
    - Inner Focus
    - Pain Suppression
    - Divine Aegis
    - Grace
    - Power Word: Barrier

    Holy Only:
    - Holy Word: Chastise/Serenity/Sanctuary
    - Lightwell
    - Spirit of Redemption
    - Chakra
    - Circle of Healing (?*)
    - Guardian Spirit

    (?*): I recall reading on one of MMO's posts that it would be supposedly available to all specs, but I haven't read that elsewhere and I can't find that post. Anyone know?

    Shadow Only:
    - Mind Flay
    - Shadow Form
    - Silence
    - Vampiric Touch
    - Psychic Horror (possibly replaced by Psyfiend?)
    - Shadowy Apparition
    - Dispersion
    Quote Originally Posted by Purpleisbetter View Post
    Power Torrent, Volcano and Theralion proc'ed, dots just refreshed. Everyone dies. Just a tank and a boss with around 200k hp. Everyone in vt yells "omg we failed omg omg" and you "don't worry amigos, my dots are steamrolling!". Boss dies while you'd say "Enjoy your loots" with a lot of purple awesomness spilling thru your voice. Just happend yesterday.

    Seriously, i thought i'd reroll warlock for 4.2, but that was the sign that i'm purple inside and i can't reroll. never.

  11. #51
    Void Shift on full health Shadow Fiend in pvp.

    Freel heal at the end.

    lulz

    80 Kingslayer Shadow Priest - Spirestone
    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...e&n=Direshadow

  12. #52
    The Patient DismalNether's Avatar
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    Disc
    Tier 1. Void tendrils
    Tier 2. Body and Soul
    Tier 3. Either Divine Star or AA depending on changes to AA or how strong Divine star is
    Tier 4. Angelic Bulwark, pure HPS and survivability increase over situational abilities
    Tier 5. Power Infusion, I don't see myself casting very many binding heals or flash heals and when I do I usually don't need a follow up heal so serendipity seems useless
    Tier 6. All 3 of these look amazing depending on the fight, Vow of Unity is an amazing tank mitigation ability and this ability could have very good synergy with serendipity through binding heal. Void Shift, we can instantly save a tank who took too many stacks/stood in something, and the wording swaps hp percent sounds like it wouldn't be affected by healing reduction debuffs or anything. Vampiric Dominance seems really good for an aoe healing fight depending on functionality and which spells it affects, could have good synergy with Divine Star. Really looking forward to MOP now

  13. #53
    Mind Blast with Shadow Orbs like Holy Power just got confirmed in class Q&A

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Zuziza View Post
    Totally take this with a grain of salt. I'm just giving a list of what I think we'd be working with in each spec.

    Disc Only:
    - Penance
    - Inner Focus
    - Pain Suppression
    - Divine Aegis
    - Grace
    - Power Word: Barrier
    I would like to add:
    - Atonement, though they may want to make that baseline just because it is too awesome to keep as disc only.
    - Soul Warding, or similar "no-cooldown" ability on shields. Having the option to shieldspam in a pinch is fun even if it isn't sustainable.
    - Reflective Shield, because PVPers everyone love it, despite being ineffective as heck.
    - Rapture, though this depends on how mana models will work in MoP. The monk heals with energy...
    - Train of Thought. It's a crutch ability, but it adds flavour to the spec.

    Holy Only:
    - Holy Word: Chastise/Serenity/Sanctuary
    - Lightwell
    - Spirit of Redemption
    - Chakra
    - Circle of Healing (?*)
    - Guardian Spirit

    (?*): I recall reading on one of MMO's posts that it would be supposedly available to all specs, but I haven't read that elsewhere and I can't find that post. Anyone know?
    CoH was explicitly mentioned as the example of a spell that was still only accessible to a specific spec. So it's in. Check out the recap on the front page for this.
    I would also add:
    - Divine Touch (Instant heal tick on renew). Not that it matters much, but "holy is supposed to be all about renew" after all.
    - Inspiration. Though this should be made baseline for all priests
    - Choir Leader. They certainly are not taking the holypriest tranquility one away in the next expansion.
    - Holy concentration. Again, this depends on how mana will work in MoP.

    Shadow Only:
    - Mind Flay
    - Shadow Form
    - Silence
    - Vampiric Touch
    - Psychic Horror (possibly replaced by Psyfiend?)
    - Shadowy Apparition
    - Dispersion
    - Improved mindblast. It's a big deal with instant nukes!
    - Pain and Suffering. Aka auto-refreshing SW:P. This is also a huge deal.
    - Mind Melt. Like with Train of Thought, it adds flavor.
    - Masochism. It's a major way of regaining mana. But as always, this depends on how MoP regen will work.
    - Twisted Faith. Guess they could turn this into a glyph or something...
    Non-discipline since 2006. Also: fails. "Chakra, when the walls fell"

  15. #55
    I think it's pretty clear that we'll have to tailor our spec to each individual encounters. All of the tiers talents best choice will vary depending on the encounter.

    Right now, it's absolutely impossible to determine which talent will be better, especially since we don't know the encounter, and we don't even have all the numbers.

    But I love having specs for each bosses.

  16. #56
    I am Murloc! Fenixdown's Avatar
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    I'm quite excited about the possibilities. I've already started planning ideas, should things stay relatively as is.

    1. Void Tendrils. I don't know how this can't seem effective to you in PvE. Root >>>>> fear, since fear then requires glyph to keep it from running around and aggroing half the dungeon or raid afterwards.
    2. Sticking with BnS.
    3. Divine Star...what's NOT to like about this?
    4. I'm debating between the two prayers. Desperate's great for a cd, but Final seems equally useful and does not require taking up a keybind.
    5. Very much considering PI as an added cooldown over Serendipity. Mana reduction > mana usage to decrease cast time. Thought he alternative is still considerably great, since it has no cd and can prove just as effective in certain situations.
    6. I'm debating between Void Shift or Vampiric Dominance. Dominance seems better for dungeons and raid healing, while Void Shift seems incredible as a cooldown for a tank healer.

    I am still wondering exactly what will happen to the REST of our spec specific buttons, such as Lightwell, GS, and others. Will they simply be trained and only accessible dependant on what specialization you select? Or will many see the chopping block? Definitely can't wait to see the beta come out so I can test it (thank you, Annual Pass...FINALLY get into a beta!).

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Zuziza View Post
    Here are my guesses for what spells will be unique to a spec, but trained rather than talented once we get 5.0. It's based on the fact that the talents are too high in the tree for any other spec to reach or that it's added when choosing a spec. I'm not listing ones that temporarily increase stats (such as Borrowed Time) because those seem more likely to be changed and not really "trainable" things.
    Holy Only:
    - Circle of Healing (?*)
    (?*): I recall reading on one of MMO's posts that it would be supposedly available to all specs, but I haven't read that elsewhere and I can't find that post. Anyone know?
    That is incorrect. They were using it as an example:
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If you don't see a beloved talent in your new talents list, don't worry, it's probably something we gave your spec as a baseline. For example all Holy priests now have Circle of Healing.
    Bolded for emphasis. I don't know where people kept missing this.

    Also, I have a feeling self-only Vampiric Embrace will stick around as a passive onto Shadow, and Borrowed Time could very well be baked into a passive effect for Discipline. Sure it's not "trainable" in a sense, but it is very core to how Discipline plays. I just have a feeling Rapture is going to be Spirit based return (like Paladin's new Judgement is) over X seconds, instead of its current maximum mana base, just to cement the idea that Spirit's the regen stat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Danner
    Mind Melt.
    Included in shadow's version of the Serendipity talent.
    Last edited by Kelesti; 2011-10-22 at 08:16 PM.
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  18. #58
    Legendary! muto's Avatar
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    Void Tendrils, the only time I fear is I'm getting wacked, and this is better then fear, it roots saving a glyph spot for fear, and lasts twice as long. No contest here.
    Body and Soul, but if they make it so levitate doesn't break on damage, then Path of the Devout
    Surge of Light for mana issues or single target, otherwise Divine Star
    [Final Prayer], Why do I need Desperate Prayer when I have binding heal?, and I don't need a strong shield with Angelic Bulwark if I'm not getting wacked on. Final Prayer seems like the best "oh shit ahahaha" here.
    Tough, I like them both a lot, Serendipity, and Twist of Fate, though depending on the encounter I would probably swap them frequently.
    Vampiric Dominance, though the other two could find their uses on certain encounters.
    Last edited by muto; 2011-10-23 at 06:32 PM.

  19. #59
    Field Marshal Archangelion's Avatar
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    MoP Talent Discussion: Priest Talents

    I figured i'd bring this up and see what the community here thinks on the topic. My priest right now is Holy Spec and i usually fill in both roles in a raid (meaning both tank and raid heals.) So when i look at the new talents in MoP i actually come to an impasse. (Yes i realize they aren't set in stone talents yet but that doesn't mean we can't discuss what we know right now.) I'm just gonna go over some of the tiers and say what my thoughts are and i'd like to hear some feedback from the rest of you on them

    Tier 1- So as a healer I find this one actually pretty rough to choose, The tendrils sounds amazing in the concept of if i have adds on me for some fight i can run to the tank and tendril them in place so the tank has time to AoE them and i can get back to healing, however if there is another mob somewhere within range that i dont want tendrilled that may be a problem.

    Psyfiend i find much the issue of in raids fearing is ALWAYS a no go, which is the same with psychic scream, but i do like having a fear as well for personal save purposes but thinking on it i don't use psychic scream in raids much anyways so i guess tier 1 goes to the tendrils in my opinion.

    Tier 2- So this tier is.... odd.... Body and Soul i love having now as holy so i can see it still being useful unless in the presence of a Disc priest, but if you ARE a disc priest this talent just became your bread and butter. Path of the Devout, i don't see this being useful in raids due to aoe damage knocking your levitate of quickly. Phantasm, in raids i don't get hit much with any movement impairing effects and even then body and soul's movement speed bonus has more general utility.

    Tier 3- From Darkness, Comes Light i've had this talent in holy from the get go and i do like getting these free flash heal procs, however i wouldn't say it's an end all ability but definitely something i hesitate to give up. Divine Star, this made me swell with joy inside, a flame orb that heals? YES PLEASE! The only question i have would be the damage/healing output it actually does... this one i'll be keeping an eye on as they continue working on MoP. Archangel confuses me, now since it mentions evangelism does that mean all priests receive it? Yet to be decided on this one.

    Tier 4- Desperate Prayer i like but i hate having to consume a GCD to use it on my self when i could use a binding heal to help someone else and myself as well, i still see how it is useful though. Angelic Bulwark, unless things change for Holy this won't be very good regardless so i won't discuss much of this. Final Prayer, my jaw actually dropped seeing this, reason why is when my health does drop that low i do notice it, its whether or not i can get a heal off fast enough to save myself is the issue, so for me to proc a bubble for that much absorbtion on myself can definitely mean the difference between life and angel form.

    Tier 5- Twist of Fate, always useful for healing tanks as well as raid in heavy AoE situations so it is definitely good for holy priests, disc i can see it being beneficial as well. Power Infusion, ok so now for me as a holy priest to have that my caster dps in the group would love me for having this, however it grants me no healing output if i use it on dps, if i use it on myself it'll only be used when i strictly need it, not just on a whim. However dps can always use it on boss fights. Serendipity, THIS is my big dilemma, i've always had this as holy so for me not to have it will feel off. Casting 2 quick heals to cast my slow powerful heal or a slow aoe heal has always been nice for me in raids. So now i'd have to decide between save heals, utility, and quick heal output. Ohhhh the difficult choices.

    Tier 6- Vow of Unity, ok now this one i like and dislike. Hear me out. The healing myself when i heal the target is nice, but that's what binding heal is for isn't it? Taking 50% of the damage the target takes over 6 seconds, this part i'm somewhat interested in, now i realize the self heal from this will counterbalance this but i'd have to see how comfortable i feel with this before i could make a full opinion. Now it gets dispelled if the target takes over 30% of their health in a hit, this i think is a good idea just so i don't get myself killed from a tank getting hit for half their health and taking me down a good chunk in the process. Void Shift i kinda "squeed" a bit when i saw this, When i'm healing Tanks i always wish i had more than guardian spirit to help keep them alive, this is a nice ability for such a situation, however for raid healing this isn't quite as optimal as the next and last one. Vampiric Dominance i kinda "squeed" at this one too ^_^" Reason being is that for raid healing this can be the difference between saving your tank alone, or saving the tank and that hunter and rogue who both got hit by one too many abilities.

    Alright so there are my thoughts, how bout the rest of you?

  20. #60

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