1. #1

    Question Is there any possibility to balance PvP and PvE?

    I heard from a lot of people that shaman are doing a good job as a PvP healers but are not good at PvE while druids are pretty great PvE healers but are at the bottom in PvP. So my question is can we fix and balance them both? I mean is there any way to make shaman work well in PvE and druids pretty good in PvP?

  2. #2
    I hate telling this bad news that it’s impossible to do that. Because PvP and PvE are two totally different games in one and thus, it will be a big problem to balance one while not having an impact on other one. However, each of PvP and PvE has their own interesting aspects and gamers could enjoy themselves in these two games. Thus there is no point in balancing PvE and PvP.

  3. #3
    Dreadlord
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    Closest way, in my opinion, is balance characters for PvP and balance bosses for PvE.

    This means balance characters the best they can for PvP, then balance the bosses to the extent of what the characters are able to put out in PvE.

    Bosses = PvE
    Characters = PvP.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Yotei View Post
    Closest way, in my opinion, is balance characters for PvP and balance bosses for PvE.

    This means balance characters the best they can for PvP, then balance the bosses to the extent of what the characters are able to put out in PvE.

    Bosses = PvE
    Characters = PvP.
    haven't heard of this idea before but it could work, the idea that i prefer is having abilities act differently towards player than they do to non players similar to how colossus smash works

  5. #5
    Scarab Lord Stanton Biston's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christina Paladino View Post
    I hate telling this bad news that it’s impossible to do that. Because PvP and PvE are two totally different games in one and thus, it will be a big problem to balance one while not having an impact on other one. However, each of PvP and PvE has their own interesting aspects and gamers could enjoy themselves in these two games. Thus there is no point in balancing PvE and PvP.
    Your hyperbole is both delicious and wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yotei View Post
    Closest way, in my opinion, is balance characters for PvP and balance bosses for PvE.

    This means balance characters the best they can for PvP, then balance the bosses to the extent of what the characters are able to put out in PvE.

    Bosses = PvE
    Characters = PvP.
    If a guy asks a specific question, it's better to respond to the actual question than some sort of broad generalization.

    Resto Druids are 'not good' in PvP because of offensive dispels. Period. It's a mechanical thing that's much larger than just adjusting a percentage here or there.

    The dispel system needs to be changed because certain classes suffer more for it than others. And it's a largely pvp system.
    Quote Originally Posted by Callace View Post
    Considering you just linked a graph with no data plotted on it as factual evidence, I think Stanton can infer whatever the hell he wants.
    Extraordinary Claims Require Extraordinary Evidence - Sometimes I abbreviate this ECREE

  6. #6
    It would be very simple to do.. all it would require is making abilities do less or more damage against other players. This has already been done with Rogue's blind, and is becoming the norm for future MMOs. I'm not quite sure why Blizzard hasn't implemented this on a large scale rather than nerfing both PVE and PVP at the same time.

  7. #7
    Dreadlord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanton Biston View Post
    If a guy asks a specific question, it's better to respond to the actual question than some sort of broad generalization.

    Resto Druids are 'not good' in PvP because of offensive dispels. Period. It's a mechanical thing that's much larger than just adjusting a percentage here or there.

    The dispel system needs to be changed because certain classes suffer more for it than others. And it's a largely pvp system.
    I know, I was just stating one of the many possible changes they can make that I personally felt would be a step in the right direction.. it might not be, as well, but yeah. :P

    I had written a post when I was discussing it with some other people, I'll quote it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yotei View Post
    But they can still split things right down the line; (We were talking about skills) they need an overhaul but it doesn't have to be exclusive to one idea.

    It's not just the skills that are at fault here, it's also the talents right now. They try to make each spec viable in PvP and PvE for some classes, and it just ruins it.

    If they did something instead where you can choose from a template of PvE talents or a template of PvP talents, but you had to choose one or the other, they would have an interesting way to balance.

    If they need to balance PvE's damage output? Oh, change the PvE talent tree a bit. If they need to tweak PvP's survivability, damage, or anything else? Change the PvP talents. Of course you would avoid PvE being dominant by making them not be able to one shot classes or anything of the like and not allowing them to get survivability talents that PvP's tree(s) will have.

    They could still do the skill changes as well, for things such as CC to lower the amount of talent points they would need to add.

    I know this would require a lot more math and what not (thorough planning), but possibly would be for the sake of the closest balance they could do. (Not saying these are all the best, just suggestions nevertheless)
    Obviously there's more to add, such as the dispel system being changed as you mentioned.

  8. #8
    Over 9000! Duilliath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanton Biston View Post
    Your hyperbole is both delicious and wrong.


    If a guy asks a specific question, it's better to respond to the actual question than some sort of broad generalization.

    Resto Druids are 'not good' in PvP because of offensive dispels. Period. It's a mechanical thing that's much larger than just adjusting a percentage here or there.

    The dispel system needs to be changed because certain classes suffer more for it than others. And it's a largely pvp system.
    And lack of on demand burst healing.

    And to be honest, I don't see why it'd be impossible to balance PvE and PvP.

  9. #9
    Quite easy, actually.

    Take Feral, for example. Until Cataclism it was a utility-heavy spec with sub par damage. To make it competitive in damage meters, damage was buffed quite a bit. That was too much PvP-wise. But since PvE is more important to Blizz they didn't nerf the damage, but instead gutted the mobility.

    A much better choice would've been to balance for PvP and make some adjustments to accomodate for PvE. Most of the stuff you use in PvP (CC, utility, mobility etc.) is mostly irrelevant in PvE, so you can disregard those when it comes to PvE and, for instance, give utility-heavy classes (e.g. pre 4.0.6 Feral) a PvE-only damage buff.

  10. #10
    Deleted
    ye
    Balance Pvp before Pve

    your raid cant kill 1 boss because of low dps? lower boss hp, alot more simple then balance around pvp
    etcetc

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Evans View Post
    I heard from a lot of people that shaman are doing a good job as a PvP healers but are not good at PvE while druids are pretty great PvE healers but are at the bottom in PvP. So my question is can we fix and balance them both? I mean is there any way to make shaman work well in PvE and druids pretty good in PvP?
    The only time this game will be close to balanced is when Blizzard decides to bite the bullet and split spells, to act differently in PvE and PvP. Similar to Colossus Smash

  12. #12
    Its possible, but not very likely. The shear amount of abilities each class has at this point makes it extremely difficult to balance. The decision to base PVP mostly around the use of crowd control also made it far more difficult to balance. Blizzard even admitted that they started an arms race between CC and anti-CC that they were looking to scale back on. I think they went way overboard with CC and should just give every class the same amount of CC and the same amount of escape mechanics. They could then balance damage among the classes and PVP would be a lot more fair.

  13. #13
    Over 9000! Duilliath's Avatar
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    This is part of what they're getting to though. As an example, take a look at the upcoming mage talents. You basically get to pick between "CC", "different CC" and "yet another CC". CCs that mages currently (might) have all three of.

  14. #14
    There are many possiblities.

    Because Blizzard does not want to seperate abilities, and designs with the "Every spec should be viable for PvP and PvE" the amount of possibilities gets greatly reduced though. One option that I support would be by changing Mastery into a PvE only stat, Mastery would make a player do either more damage or more healing (Depending on the spec) when in 5 man or raid instances. That way you can slap Mastery on all the PvE gear as primary stat (Can't be reforged) and PvE players would all gem for Mastery. Now if they did this, and then we take the Resto Shaman's example, they can just nerf Resto Shaman for PvP and buff the mastery to increase their healing in PvE and balance both out.

    Ofcourse this means you have a bit less choice gemming, since you want every gemslot to be mastery. But atleast it will mean the game can finally be balanced.

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