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  1. #21
    I dont really enjoy lvling - I participate in the story , but I aim for endgame.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zargs View Post
    Well maybe him and many many ppl like to enjoy the game and not just blast up to max lvl.

    And talking rotations and stuff is just stupid to me. Its not finished. Come back when you have 100% fact and not like now at least 50% right.

    Oh oh and Traces go look up irony on the web. You may learn a thing or two. :-))
    I know the definition of irony and I don't see anything that is ironic? Also, you're assuming that people who push for max level don't enjoy the game. Personally I enjoy raiding more than leveling.

    Quote Originally Posted by BeingRepressed View Post
    I'm a bit curious how you think you came up with anything resembling a good rotation/priority system when you don't know damage amounts, stat modifiers, or talent modifiers.
    We know damage amounts from videos and the debuffs that are generated like 5% chance to miss when X ability is used or when Y ability is used, you get an absorb effect allow us to generate a basic flow chart.

    The point of this is theory-crafting, it isn't perfect and I was hoping for a public discussion (notably people are ending-game orientated) but I'm not really getting that, I'm getting more from a private messages. If you don't have anything constructive to add then I'm politely asking you to try and keep the thread free.
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  3. #23
    Anddddd this will eventually spiral down into a casual vs. hardcore argument again.

    "I don't like rotations, I like to enjoy my game."
    "I can still enjoy the game and have rotations."
    "No you can't you're elitist."
    "No you're a scrub."

    Stray away from it guys, be the bigger man and just ignore it... just stick to talking about the priority/rotation the guy posted.
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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by vizzle View Post
    Anddddd this will eventually spiral down into a casual vs. hardcore argument again.

    "I don't like rotations, I like to enjoy my game."
    "I can still enjoy the game and have rotations."
    "No you can't you're elitist."
    "No you're a scrub."

    Stray away from it guys... just stick to talking about the priority/rotation the guy posted.
    I agree 100%, everyone can play how the want. Lets keep it on track and discuss the mechanics presented.
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  5. #25
    If you're not interested in this info, move along. There's no reason to post in here that you don't like it, troll the OP, etc.

    Thanks for the info, Traces.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by vizzle View Post
    Not everyone wants to be bad at the game for 2 years :/
    There is a diffrence between being bad at the game and having perfect rotation.

    I said that not having perfect rotation, it doesn't mean you are bad at it.

    I am just saying that you do not need to have perfect rotation from the begining.

    You don't need to have perfect rotation to enjoy the game.

    There is a diffrence between having perfect rotation and having a bad rotation.

    As always I prefer to learn everything myself.

    This is the way I like it.

  7. #27
    Edit: Nvmnd
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  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by spleen1015 View Post
    If you're not interested in this info, move along. There's no reason to post in here that you don't like it, troll the OP, etc.

    Thanks for the info, Traces.
    surly putting somthing in a public space makes it open for comment, not only of the topic but also how valid having the topic up in the first place is. I think the interesting thing here is how black and white it seems to be, following what has penned as being the best rotation doesn't mean what ever you do instead is automatically bad or makes you bad at the game. I think more the shame here is people feel a need to rely on being told how to play to feel they are any good or a serious raider or whatever

    on the other hand it is nice to discuss ideas on rotations at any point of the game, so i welcome input for that purpose alone =)

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by PurityInRage View Post
    surly putting somthing in a public space makes it open for comment, not only of the topic but also how valid having the topic up in the first place is. I think the interesting thing here is how black and white it seems to be, following what has penned as being the best rotation doesn't mean what ever you do instead is automatically bad or makes you bad at the game. I think more the shame here is people feel a need to rely on being told how to play to feel they are any good or a serious raider or whatever

    on the other hand it is nice to discuss ideas on rotations at any point of the game, so i welcome input for that purpose alone =)
    I'm completely open for comment on it but if you don't have a constructive input, then why post at all? I'm totally open to criticism and I've answered everyones questions in a helpful and polite manner. I would just prefer if people who are not interested in rotations, would leave the discussion.

    Also I don't think people rely on being told what to do, they merely use it as a tool. You wouldn't say a doctor who reads up on new procedure techniques is bad, he or she is merely keeping themselves informed (I know this is a very extreme example and I'm not meaning being a doctor is the same as a raider, just thought I would clear that up because I know how people love to quote things out of context).

    Also I'm still welcoming anyone who has any thoughts or proposals on the flow chart.
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  10. #30
    <Snip> NDA. The gist was: things change
    Last edited by Trollsbane; 2011-10-23 at 05:50 PM.
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  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Traces View Post
    Yeah that's cool, if you want to do that but really was there a need to post that in here? It's for constructive use and based around people who will be going straight for raiding.

    Personally I like to play at a high standard in the game and don't want to "be a noob for a couple of months".
    While I commend you for taking the time making this information, I'm one of those people who like to find out these things for myself while levelling. I'm also wanting to raid at a high standard but 1 thing I've done through my 7 years in WoW is learn by doing I've never been considered a noob for doing things this way and I've always been bang on or close to the "perfect rotation/priority" when I check up if I'm doing things correctly. This is one of the fun parts in gaming the learning curve.

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  12. #32
    Kudos to you for taking the time to make the rotation flow chart with the information you have and posting it here. It's well thought out and researched. I do have some input though...

    -Flow charts are meant to,well,flow and a segment of the TOR playing population will look at that and get exactly what the rotation is and should be at certain points. The average Joe will look at that and see a jumbled mess and probably skip right on by it or take hours to work through it step by step. If you want to make it easily understandable to a majority of TOR players, I suggest streamlining it or making the flow of the chart more organized.

    -In my personal experience, I have always found it easier to list the basic rotation(sometimes I even have the visual icon of an ability next to my written steps) and then direct them to a subsection of the rotation if an ability procs or a certain phase of the fight is entered. It has always worked out well when explaining rotations to guildmates and friends who don't have the same level of understanding or comfort I do with the class or spec we are discussing.

    I used to direct guildmates to EJ for their class info, specs and rotations and some of them were turned off by the math and information overload and did not benefit from the wealth of information, when Noxxic hit, I started directing them there. It has basically the same information as EJ but it is presented in a much more sleek, visual and user friendly format and low and behold, dps and hps for the guild as a whole increased.

    Best of Luck to You.


    Domenik, you just did break the NDA by the way.
    Last edited by Temeluchus; 2011-10-23 at 05:31 PM.

  13. #33
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    Stop the personal jabs. For or against it, that's not the point of the thread. Keep the elite (and the I hate elite) talk out of the forum.

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  14. #34
    That is a nice chart there traces, thanks for putting that together.

  15. #35
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    Kudos for posting about something more than companions and dark/light side babble. I want more of these discussions. This talk IS FUN to me and many other people on the forums.

    I wish we could start talking talents already. FFS, lift the NDA so we can have better discussions already!

  16. #36
    Traces: Thank you for this nice gem! Really interesting and probably helpful in the early stages of the game. Do you have something similar for the Trooper class? Or some more class/ability guide like vi.deos for this ranged class? Because I'm not 100% convinced whether I should play Trooper or Jedi Knight. Thanks!
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  17. #37
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    I agree with what a lot of people are saying with things being changed and I respect that, as said earlier it wasn't meant to be the master copy. I will keep it updated though as NDA safe sources become available.

    Regarding other classes, there isn't a way for me to post it and honor my NDA agreement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyira View Post
    While I commend you for taking the time making this information, I'm one of those people who like to find out these things for myself while levelling. I'm also wanting to raid at a high standard but 1 thing I've done through my 7 years in WoW is learn by doing I've never been considered a noob for doing things this way and I've always been bang on or close to the "perfect rotation/priority" when I check up if I'm doing things correctly. This is one of the fun parts in gaming the learning curve.
    I personally also work out the things that need done and use a little bit maths to fix some values but the majority of people still prefer to read the information.

    Quote Originally Posted by cRawmode View Post
    Traces: Thank you for this nice gem! Really interesting and probably helpful in the early stages of the game. Do you have something similar for the Trooper class? Or some more class/ability guide like vi.deos for this ranged class? Because I'm not 100% convinced whether I should play Trooper or Jedi Knight. Thanks!
    I do have one for the Vanguard Shield Specialist and for the Shadow Kinetic Combat but as stated above, I can't post it without Trollsbane going nuclear on me.

    We are working to have most of the information available for when the NDA drops, we can just upload it up in masses. I am covering tanking for the most of it but any requests, I can look into and see what I can do.

    If you want a bit more of a 'discussion' then feel free to private message me on here or SWTOR forums.
    Last edited by Traces; 2011-10-23 at 10:05 PM.
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  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traces View Post
    Yeah that's cool, if you want to do that but really was there a need to post that in here? It's for constructive use and based around people who will be going straight for raiding.
    None will go straight into raiding, we have 50 levels to try and learn, should be enough for anyone who's played MMOs before.
    Quote Originally Posted by bizzy View Post
    yeh but lava is just very hot water

  19. #39
    there is almost zero chance this will still be correct or relevant when the game goes live and people are hitting max level

    besides, half the fun of a new game is playing around and figuring out things for yourself as you level

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Babaganouch View Post
    None will go straight into raiding, we have 50 levels to try and learn, should be enough for anyone who's played MMOs before.
    This is more like theory crafting - not a teaching lesson. I'm sure as we progress during lvling we'll get a way better feel of how the focus/rage mechanic works and by that making an already in progress flow chart much easier to compilate and understandable. Since we are all walking in the dark here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Temeluchus View Post
    Kudos to you for taking the time to make the rotation flow chart with the information you have and posting it here. It's well thought out and researched. I do have some input though...

    -Flow charts are meant to,well,flow and a segment of the TOR playing population will look at that and get exactly what the rotation is and should be at certain points. The average Joe will look at that and see a jumbled mess and probably skip right on by it or take hours to work through it step by step. If you want to make it easily understandable to a majority of TOR players, I suggest streamlining it or making the flow of the chart more organized.
    Coming up as we speak - though with homemade icons/icons from swtor.com. - Don't want to take the chance of breaking NDA becuase of a icon >.<

    There are some changes coming in the next chart aswell - since I found that taunt and Combat focus is off the GCD which means that the opener will change abit.

    Also that Saber throw has a minimum of 10 yards range - which makes it useless for close combat tanking.

    The thing about the chart is that you cannot really make it a rotation - since the amount of focus you have or gain Via Soresu form varies + possibly focus saving talents. So all the SA and AS works like your auto attack, like if we compare to a warrior autoattack is what gives you rage - SA + AS is your rage/focus generator. So you can't really put down a set in stone rotation - but merely give try to give a list of what is your priority to spend your rage/focus on.

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