To Those Who Don't Like the Talent Changes...

[funsails22]

...you just really don't get it.

To the Every talent system will have a cookie cutter spec arguers, upon actually opening some screenshots and reading examples of talent ideas you will be amazed to find that very few are mandatory throughput talents, and the large majority are personal play-style preferences.

For instance, Hunters have two DPS talent tier choices(mind you, still choices--but one will probably provide better dps than the others in different scenarios with different gear). The four other talents are up to preference, and for players who enjoy choosing how their character will play, there can be a large variance between play-styles depending on what you like: do you want to move faster, be invincible, or heal yourself after every Disengage? And who can say which is best?

I like apples more than oranges. But that doesn't make apples better for everyone, just for me.

Part of me feels as though those who persistently argue that this provides less customization are trolling... we are now free to pick a new powerful ability/effect at the expense of two other equally powerful abilities/effects.

Some people are just confused by having one talent tree-- remember, there are still three different specs(e.g. BM, MM, SV) that play the same as they have before, and differently from each other.

But instead, now you have access to any 1/3rd of the talents at a time while another player of the same spec may have picked a completely different set of 1/3rd of the talents, and you'll enjoy different styles of play despite having the same core abilities.

And because they (mostly) change play-style, not performance, there can be no "right choice" for everyone.

Show me 18 talents in the trees of one class we have today that have as much impact on play-style as the new sets, and that you have to choose between them, and then maybe I'll agree that we were better off before.

It's frustrating to read the same flawed stances against this great new system.

[Ryme]

Hate breeds willful blindness.

[Deleted]

I don't know how it will be game play wise. But there are 2 major downsides to it.

-The obvious one. Talent point per 15 levels sounds a bit too much. Leveling is already boring and then there's a lot less to look forward to. 15 levels is a lot, even weeks for some.

-During Wrath and Cata they were trying to build specc looks and feels to compensate for the homogenization. Ex. frost mages spells were all frosty and it didn't feel like playing a mage with some frost spells or fury warrior was all drunken waving 2 weapons and AoE style. If they do talents like this then it will mess that original look and feel up again. A frost mage picking arcane and fire talents doesn't feel so "pure" any more.

[Tigercat]

I get so tired of the "If you don't agree with me you're a troll/hater/noob/ignorant noob" arguements.

Also, it's going to be a bit hard coming up with 18 talent abilities from a class now to match this system considering some of these things they're calling talents used to just be baseline abilities.

[DiNet]

Every tier of DK talents is PvE oriented as well as PvP usable for surviving. Catch my drift?

[Sumatran]

I don't know how it will be game play wise. But there are 2 major downsides to it.

-The obvious one. Talent point per 15 levels sounds a bit too much. Leveling is already boring and then there's a lot less to look forward to. 15 levels is a lot, even weeks for some.

-During Wrath and Cata they were trying to build specc looks and feels to compensate for the homogenization. Ex. frost mages spells were all frosty and it didn't feel like playing a mage with some frost spells or fury warrior was all drunken waving 2 weapons and AoE style. If they do talents like this then it will mess that original look and feel up again. A frost mage picking arcane and fire talents doesn't feel so "pure" any more.

Nailed it. Leveling will be more boring. Much less rpg like. Heres your skills now enjoy it.

And cookie cutters will still happen. As long as there is math there will be cookie cutter. One "spec" will be more favorable in a situation vs another "spec".

Too much homoginization, its what killed wow, its whats going to finish wow off.

[Ryme]

I don't know how it will be game play wise. But there are 2 major downsides to it.

-The obvious one. Talent point per 15 levels sounds a bit too much. Leveling is already boring and then there's a lot less to look forward to. 15 levels is a lot, even weeks for some.

-During Wrath and Cata they were trying to build specc looks and feels to compensate for the homogenization. Ex. frost mages spells were all frosty and it didn't feel like playing a mage with some frost spells or fury warrior was all drunken waving 2 weapons and AoE style. If they do talents like this then it will mess that original look and feel up again. A frost mage picking arcane and fire talents doesn't feel so "pure" any more.

Both are concerns you can forget Specs still exist, you still get lots of lovely new toys as you level and each spec will still come with it's own special flavour. Think of these new talents as CLASS talents rather than SPEC ones, they're just added bonuses as you level for picking that class.

[iamthedevil]

What i don't like is that they are taking baseline abilities [ie ring of frost or pestilence] and forcing us to chose or lose them with these new talents. Current talent abilities or new abilities, that's just fine.

[funsails22]

I don't know how it will be game play wise. But there are 2 major downsides to it.

-The obvious one. Talent point per 15 levels sounds a bit too much. Leveling is already boring and then there's a lot less to look forward to. 15 levels is a lot, even weeks for some.

-During Wrath and Cata they were trying to build specc looks and feels to compensate for the homogenization. Ex. frost mages spells were all frosty and it didn't feel like playing a mage with some frost spells or fury warrior was all drunken waving 2 weapons and AoE style. If they do talents like this then it will mess that original look and feel up again. A frost mage picking arcane and fire talents doesn't feel so "pure" any more.

Those actually make a lot of sense, and are arguments that are way better for my blood pressure to read

To your second point, that seems like a really valid argument to me; at the same time, the mage (my main) tree seems to be the only one where this problem exists. For the hybrids, a lot of the talents look like taking it will give different effects, and the other pure dps trees are only affecting abilities that were previously class-wide anyway (in their feel at the very least).

After taking a closer look at the mage talent tree with your argument in mind, I really hope this is not close to their final plan for the tree.

As for your first point, when I was leveling the only talent changes I was ever excited for were the new talent abilities... which you got about every ten levels anyway.

Now, it's fifteen levels instead of ten, which can be a large distance-- but you also have three abilities to play around with at different times, not just one. That might offset the wait for me, but I won't really know until I actually get to level a character under the new system.

[Autofollow]

I'm not going to jump in with saying this will kill the game, because nothing has yet. Blizzard will kill WoW itself with the release of their next big MMO when they decide it's time.

However, I do feel that most of these talents while being called utility are really mostly only good for PVP. Which is more utility based than PVE ever was. Whatever, not like it'll stop me from playing the game.

[Ryme]

Nailed it. Leveling will be more boring. Much less rpg like. Heres your skills now enjoy it.

And cookie cutters will still happen. As long as there is math there will be cookie cutter. One "spec" will be more favorable in a situation vs another "spec".

Too much homoginization, its what killed wow, its whats going to finish wow off.

Please, tell me how to math out this:

A 60% increase to someone's speed when I use PW:S or Leap of Faith, 25% movement speed increase when I levitate, freedom from movement impairing effects when I fade?

I picked that totally at random, from a random class on a random tier.

[yorker]

-The obvious one. Talent point per 15 levels sounds a bit too much. Leveling is already boring and then there's a lot less to look forward to. 15 levels is a lot, even weeks for some.

I don't understand this argument. You'll still be unlocking abilities through your spec and class abilities pools as you level up, so you get plenty of new stuff while leveling. Yes, it is less active than the current system, but most talents you choose aren't actual abilities anyway, they're just damage increases or minor alterations. Its not like talent choices made leveling fun anyway, half the time you just find a leveling spec on wowpedia and blindly follow it. That plus the fact that most of a given character's lifespan happens at level-cap makes this system fine, imo.

[thurizas]

Please, tell me how to math out this:

A 60% increase to someone's speed when I use PW:S or Leap of Faith, 25% movement speed increase when I levitate, freedom from movement impairing effects when I fade?

I picked that totally at random, from a random class on a random tier.

I don't think you can.....however I don't seen every-day utility for these in raiding or dungeon-running. sure there may be corner cases where one is superior to another, but I don't see a constant use for any of these.

Another way of looking at is that talents are truly meaningless (a gross oversimplification) to the holy-trinity (tank, healer, DPS) of raiding. We have gone from a situation where making the correct (and theory-crafted) choices in selecting talents to our choices having no significance in general.

[Tapaj]

I like some of the changes ( Hunter - Mage ) and dislike others ( Warrior mostly ). As for the warrior lvl90 choices, and correct me if I am wrong, are lvl 85 abilities now.

[Agilent]

I like the idea but alot of the talents are pretty lame like for example hunter's lvl 90 talents...CONGRATS YOU LEVELED UP YOUR CHARACTER 90 TIMES! NOW YOUR TRAPS ARE A LITTLE BETTER!

[Sumatran]

Please, tell me how to math out this:

A 60% increase to someone's speed when I use PW:S or Leap of Faith, 25% movement speed increase when I levitate, freedom from movement impairing effects when I fade?

I picked that totally at random, from a random class on a random tier.

Sorry but if you dont see the obvious advantage of increasing the speed of a player by 60% in a raid setting then I cannot help you "math" anything.

And you havent seen awful till you have seen the druid talents.

[Yoggtimus Prime]

Currently, I wouldn't look forward to the talents being set in stone just yet. Priest system could definitely use some work, too much requiring you to shield people.

[funsails22]

I get so tired of the "If you don't agree with me you're a troll/hater/noob/ignorant noob" arguements.

Also, it's going to be a bit hard coming up with 18 talent abilities from a class now to match this system considering some of these things they're calling talents used to just be baseline abilities.

That's not what this is; if you disagree with me for the reasons I've argued against, then you are not fully aware of what we're being offered.

What i don't like is that they are taking baseline abilities [ie ring of frost or pestilence] and forcing us to chose or lose them with these new talents. Current talent abilities or new abilities, that's just fine.

I get that. There needs to be some choose/lose, or there isn't any customization. I kind of like the idea of getting to replace a current ability with one that would be more effective in different situations, and not everyone can have every tool!

Your old base skills are still available, but now you have the option of replacing them with a similar tool that might work better for you!

[mistuhbull]

Sorry but if you dont see the obvious advantage of increasing the speed of a player by 60% in a raid setting then I cannot help you "math" anything.

And you havent seen awful till you have seen the druid talents.

But which does your "math" say is better, yourself getting 25% speed that on many a fight can be kept constant, or another raid member getting a short burst of speed that much of the time will be useless

[Purple]

As a Shadow Priest the only thing that will really bug be is that some of the Talents aren't Talents at all (Psychic Scream) while others are Talents I earned ages and ages ago back in pre-BC (the Vampiric Embrace Knock Off). I think the Talent system will work out, but the idea that I have to get to 90 to get a talent I earned long ago prior to 60 does sort of irk me in a small, tiny way.