Tanks getting mad cause I pull everything?

[marthsk]

The bolded caps are not meant for you, they are for all the people that come in here, read 3 sentences of the first post, and then post about it without having read anything else in the thread.

And as far as doing the dungeons correctly even if that means slowly - no thanks. Obviously I can't speak for everyone but for me personally having played since vanilla I have seen these dungeons dozens of times, I already know how to tank/heal/dps, I just want to get my X alt to max level ASAP.

There is a lot of talk about learning the classes etc - but at the same time a lot of people are also commenting that it isn't their first tank either so the whole 'do it right to learn' argument is only valid in specific instances of what is being discussed here, not all of them.

If I am in a pug with lots of heirlooms, I expect to blaze and instance down without worry or care to who is tanking.

Was just commenting what you came of as on first sight. I tend to do that. Can take it as good as I give it, no worries.

Now, I did not mean to imply that it had to be necessarily slow. This, of course, is pretty subjective. Sure, one can learn from their shortcomings, whether it comes from not being able to keep up with the group, dropping aggro due to lack of understanding of tanking mechanics, or pulling the wrong mob. However, I like to think that the effort is collective. If you end up slowing the group considerably, then sure, review how you play because you need that.

What I'm saying is that aggro management is a street that goes both ways, and anyone disagreeing with this should seriously evaluate their own views on the game.

Notwithstanding all of that, the case at hand is quite different, and we only know OP's side. Who knows if there are details left out, or bent out of shape. Wouldn't surprise me, judging from the character he exhibits in his responses, but that's just my opinion, however informed (or uninformed) it is.

[Maelstrom51]

Let. Them. Die. This isn't rocket science. I advise the ssame things to tanks. If someone's pulling for you, *don't* do the 'extra work' this causes you and let the moron face-plant.

The healer was not healing. The rogue was still killing everything.

[Shrakx]

Why? - making things harder just because...

This guy is obviously trolling us ... Why would someone post something, asking for what others think, to then completely disregard everything being said to him ? Just another meaningless troll. Nothing to see, move along lol. In the end he's really only punishing himself because he'll never get to finish an instance since he'll get kicked every single time.

[marthsk]

No, you obey the law, because if you don't you go to jail/face stiff fines and punishments.

That's by your logic, and that would be a good reason indeed. Can't disagree. It's also as per conventions, as per rules. Break rules, and there are consequences. Break the law, go to jail. Do not follow a convention, don't be surprised if other people throw you out. As much as one can disagree, that's reality.

However, by his logic, it's totally different, as one of his previous responses state.

[Agoonga]

If I'm tanking I only care if the DPS pulls if the healer is having trouble. If the healer is just like semi-afk throwing a hot every 30 secs then I don't care. If the healer is going all out and running oom then it's kick-worthy.

[Deleted]

Punishments... like being vote-kicked? Heh.

Thankfully vote - kick doesn't bother me as much as going to prison.

[Pandamoneum]

But who remembers some old content where non conventional classes were asked to off-tank certain bosses for raids?

We are not talking about a DPS off-tanking as dictated by a designed mechanic, we are talking about a hotshot DPS steamrolling a LFD group.

Or people that solo raid bosses?

Again, the important word in this phrase is solo. OP can feel free to do as he pleases when he is on his own, but there is accepted etiquette with respect to grouping which he clearly violated.

...and on the other members part by not speaking up asking him to slow down a bit if they were feeling rushed

I would be surprised if nothing to the effect of 'OMG PLZ STOP TANKING!' was said before they quit healing him.

[Deleted]

However, by his logic, it's totally different, as one of his previous responses state.

and where did i state this

[topitopi]

Because your not the tank. If the tank is going slow you can ask him to go faster.

I play all 4 tanks, and I don't have a problem with it but it gets really annoying when you are trying to gear. Once you are geared it's not an issue for most runs in my opinion

[Deleted]

Why? Because the tank wasn't able to do the job he *signed* for? Maybe he enjoys tanking, its the role he signed to do, so its not unreasonable for him to be expected to be allowed to do it. Doesn't matter if the rogue thinks he is pro enough to be able to do it solo, doesn't matter if he can. If he signs for a 5man group, your expected to team with the other 4 people and work together.
Instances are a team effort, but so many of these little brats and geeky fecks with zero social skills seem to think the game is purely about them. It's an MMO, thats multip-player, and instances are a group effort to complete. The fact that OP got kicked from 3 seperate instances suggests there is more to the story than he is letting on, and he was probably one of those little pricks who thinks they are funny to wind others up, insult them, and then think they are *cool* to disguise the fact they are a sad, little person with little or no accomplishments in life.

Everything you just wrote points to you having more issues than me.

[Pandamoneum]

Oh at to all the people who KEEP asking the question "Why didnt he just do the dungeon alone", it is because you don't get the extra experience, gold and justice points if you don't queue up in the LFD.

Oh I see... So he wants all the benefits of a group, without any of the accepted responsibility. I think they call that selfishness. Maybe that's why he got vote-kicked...

[rat]

This thread, and everybody defending the OP, is the exact reason there's a tank shortage in this game. Most tanks would rather queue as DPS, and only tank with friends/guildies, because of people like you.

And yet you still, somehow complain that there's not enough tanks.

You guys need an attitude change, and soon.

[Deleted]

Gotta laugh at whenever a new point is bought up, the OP pops his head in and says oh btw, I forgot I didnt tell you this part so yeah, your point is null and void...phew does that make me look like less of an ass? Roffles, tanks tank, healers heal and dps kill things. Simple as that.

[marthsk]

and where did i state this

Can you backtrack in the thread? The law analogy and all...

[Valkryx]

How are others possibly wronged by getting an easy run? He's not an impatient bitch, he's going at the speed his gear level allows and carrying stubborn people who refuse to help and don't appreciate that the dungeon finder gave them a free pass.

some people dont find the free pass fun they queued the dungeon to actually play, some people actually dont wanna just be carried and gave free loot... SOME people actually like to work for their xp/gear/points.


i agree if he wanted to just prove he could solo it or w/e he shoulda just went there and did it instead of queueing, if he is gonna queue tho than play your role.

[Shaderas]

I would be surprised if nothing to the effect of 'OMG PLZ STOP TANKING!' was said before they quit healing him.

Perhaps, but you're making an assumption here. Just as much as I have had to make assumptions as we don't know the full story. I've had groups kick people without ever saying a word in group chat to that person.

[marthsk]

some people dont find the free pass fun they queued the dungeon to actually play, some people actually dont wanna just be carried and gave free loot... SOME people actually like to work for their xp/gear/points.

Don't even bother explaining. This point gets conveniently ignored, and they come back when said point is completely forgotten.

[maky13]

Let's recap:

- OP pulls and actually ends up tanking successfully UK.
- However, OP did not ask if it was okay, therefore not being considerate
- OP wonders why he got kicked
- People tell OP he's not tank
- OP begs to differ based on number crunching
- I tell and prove he's not considerate in general by an analogy with law, upon which he totally took the bait
- OP still wonders why he got kicked
- People tell OP it's a matter of convention and consideration for others
- OP doesn't care


Well, you may disagree with said convension, and think that consideration is not within your fancies, but no matter how you try to argue your point, the reality remains that you'll get that everytime you pull what you pulled off in the exact same fashion.

Whether or not you'll pursue such behaviour is really up to you, and has no repercusions on us. However, now you know our opinion, and your take on this as to whether or not our opinion is valid holds no value, really.

Why?

Well, while points of view are subjective, and while you're that strongly attached to your own point of view, reality is not subjective. And the reality is that you'll end up most of the time with that result due to your lack of consideration. It doesn't matter if we consider you to be wrong, or if you consider yourself to be right. Neither will change a thing at the end of the day.

What matters is reality.

This recap was pretty good. I don`t see the OP trying to address the communication/attitude issue anywhere; it seems only "but I did it without healer, so I`m obviously right" is coming through, in different phrasings. I don`t see the discussion going anywhere further, tbh.

[Judge Malthred]

Was just commenting what you came of as on first sight. I tend to do that. Can take it as good as I give it, no worries.

Now, I did not mean to imply that it had to be necessarily slow. This, of course, is pretty subjective. Sure, one can learn from their shortcomings, whether it comes from not being able to keep up with the group, dropping aggro due to lack of understanding of tanking mechanics, or pulling the wrong mob. However, I like to think that the effort is collective. If you end up slowing the group considerably, then sure, review how you play because you need that.

What I'm saying is that aggro management is a street that goes both ways, and anyone disagreeing with this should seriously evaluate their own views on the game.

Notwithstanding all of that, the case at hand is quite different, and we only know OP's side. Who knows if there are details left out, or bent out of shape. Wouldn't surprise me, judging from the character he exhibits in his responses, but that's just my opinion, however informed (or uninformed) it is.

Yes certainly goes both ways. In my experience (and why I didn't feel the need to ask OP for more info) when I pull aggro accidentally through DPS or accidentally pull more mobs with a bad position, I get jumped on and chewed out. There is no ramp up from tank or healer, no request to be more careful- just instantaneous nerd rage. So my intent, whether accidental or on purpose is irrelevant to the reaction I get.

And looking over many of the responses of people who pass into this thread it is much the same, immediate accusal and chewing out.

So, imo, the problem is not people knowing how to play correctly, its just bad attitudes the second you set foot in the instance and anything after that is irrelevant to the reactions that happen.

On the other side when I am in groups dpsing and I pull aggro by accident and the tank just deals with it, are usually the same groups I can just dps like a machine, pull whatever I want extra etc etc and there is no drama at all. I rarely DPS, but when I do those are my 2 experiences with not much of a gray area in between.

[Pandamoneum]

gotta love the way you emphasize you're a tank - as if you have some god given right to control the group exactly as you see fit.

Aren't you in fact assuming control of the group yourself by continuing to pull despite the protests of the rest of your group?