Female Pandaren Body Type - An Artist's Debate.

[CakeomgCake]

Male panda is so ugly that it's ridiculous.

[Alewen]

Why not?

I know the claim is, "Nobody likes them and nobody plays them." But if you try to post that on the Blizzard forums the thread will be buried in posts by female Dwarfs making the claim look silly.

That's pretty true. I even have a dwarf female. True I aint been playing her, but not because I dislike her. But because she right now, is not on my home realm. The realm she is on, the community imploded on itself and drama queens took over. December assuming I aint busy with the beta, I will be transfering her and my remaining chars on the sisters of drama to my home realm of Wyrmrest Accord.

---------- Post added 2011-10-27 at 03:38 PM ----------

Male panda is so ugly that it's ridiculous.

I don't find the males ugly at all. I think they are pretty awesome personally. I can't wait to see what Blizzard gives us for a female. Food for thought guys. Blizzard made the male Pandaren with 0 player feedback/fanart. And they came out awesome. So the question is, why can't you guys trust blizzard to do the females just like they did the males?

[Tara Jenkins]

About the same reason you post your favorite artworks everywhere. If you can do it, so can I, so can everyone on the forum. We have a right to discuss our own opinions, and we especially have a right to express it without being derided on the waistline of a character, thick or thin.

You'll notice the latter is something I have not done, yet I certainly cannot say the same for others.

[MrWolly]

Very likely, very well done. I applaud you.

[Tara Jenkins]

Very likely, very well done. I applaud you.

Thank you very much for reading!

[Girradda]

Why is it disgusting on a female but not a male?

If you really must ask its because men were intended to be physically larger than females, whether it being taller or fatter, and when this is not the case it is not appealing to the eyes.

[Dembai]

It would be nice if they had YOU for an artist and could do the fat-chick panda without them looking stupid, but with the horrors they gave us in female Worgen, I am PETRIFIED with what they're going to do with female pandas.

That's why I'm hoping for 'slim and sexy, whiners be damned'. Because they MIGHT pull it off.

[Tara Jenkins]

It would be nice if they had YOU for an artist and could do the fat-chick panda without them looking stupid, but with the horrors they gave us in female Worgen, I am PETRIFIED with what they're going to do with female pandas.

That's why I'm hoping for 'slim and sexy, whiners be damned'. Because they MIGHT pull it off.

Appreciate the backhanded compliment. But I'm honestly tired of seeing the terms "fat chick" and "whiner" in these threads, and I would appreciate it if you kept it out of mine. You see, I'm one of those unworthy "fat" chicks. But hey, look at that. I apparently have some skills. My fiance thinks I'm sexy. And I'm honestly not interested in impressing schoolyard bullies who sum me up by my waistline alone, because....what are rude people worth?

Think about what you say. The Golden Rule is golden for a reason.

[Alewen]

It would be nice if they had YOU for an artist and could do the fat-chick panda without them looking stupid, but with the horrors they gave us in female Worgen, I am PETRIFIED with what they're going to do with female pandas.

That's why I'm hoping for 'slim and sexy, whiners be damned'. Because they MIGHT pull it off.

You shouldn't be scared. Samwise wouldn't make a pandaren female ugly I don't believe. The males came out awesome. Have faith. The worgen thing was because the lines were divided in the community and Blizzard didn't have any previous concepts for the female worgen so they had to go from scratch to try and make both sides happy.

But that's not the case with the Pandaren Females. They have artwork of a female child they can age up and can work from there.

[Keristrasza]

personally i don't think they should have female pandaren at all. they've never existed before.

but if they insist on doing so, i would agree that they should share similar body type as male

That is just it, how can a race exist at all without a female? I do not believe a race such as that could reproduce on their own without a female. Reality, and fantasy aside, I believe that is one rather obvious fact that cannot be over looked or loopholed through without making up some BS story that would ruin the lore of the race and just about everything linked too it.

And besides, without a female panda, the race would be a failure because I for one, would not play them as the ONLY thing I play in wow are female characters. I am a female, so why would I want to play a burly giant male? I am quite certain that I'm not the only one to feel that way too.

If you really must ask its because men were intended to be physically larger than females, whether it being taller or fatter, and when this is not the case it is not appealing to the eyes.

Not everything in this world is about eye-candy however. Physically designed or not, and on that note fluffy females were quite popular in the renaissance era. While not the case anymore thanks to fashion mags, the fact remains everyones built different, by choice or not. Everyone has different tastes and not everyone should be conformed to the idea all females should wear a size 0, look like a living skeleton, and be oogled by every guy who walks past.

[Dembai]

Appreciate the backhanded compliment. But I'm honestly tired of seeing the terms "fat chick" and "whiner" in these threads, and I would appreciate it if you kept it out of mine. You see, I'm one of those unworthy "fat" chicks. But hey, look at that. I apparently have some skills. My fiance thinks I'm sexy. And I'm honestly not interested in impressing schoolyard bullies who sum me up by my waistline alone, because....what are rude people worth?

Think about what you say. The Golden Rule is golden for a reason.

Way to read into my comment without even looking at my sig, and take a massive amount of insults where none were intended. Golden rule indeed.

I'm fat, female, and pregnant, and totally into your art. I wasn't trying to bully you, or even insult us rounder-style females. I prefer women who have curves. Hyper-anorexic chicks really weird me out.

My concern about "whiners" is NOT about wanting sexy slim pandas (I'd actually prefer your style - which I LIKE!), but mostly due to the fact that the complaints aimed at what could have been a halfway decent (though a little round-headed) Worgen female, turned her into a slobbering cockeyed mess. I'm concerned that if Blizzard aimed for your style of female panda and permitted an early audience of it that we'd be treated to more of the same crap - ultimately resulting in what would only amount in something just a horrifying as the current female worgen.

If they aimed for something more sexy - it's probable that while we'd be treated to the same things we dealt with female Draenei (back in the day) which can be summed up with: "Furry art, eww" which would only result in a minor nerfing of their more animal features...instead of their feminine ones.

I'd like a curvy female. I am a curvy female. I doubt Blizzard will give us something as nice as your drawing because they are far too easily swayed by the forums when it comes to making good looking female characters. It's mostly irritation with Blizzard that I feel, but certainly not with your excellent breakdowns and drawings!

[Girradda]

Not everything in this world is about eye-candy however. Physically designed or not, and on that note fluffy females were quite popular in the renaissance era. While not the case anymore thanks to fashion mags, the fact remains everyones built different, by choice or not. Everyone has different tastes and not everyone should be conformed to the idea all females should wear a size 0, look like a living skeleton, and be oogled by every guy who walks past.

I'm not talking about OPINIONS, I'm talking about how humans are naturally supposed to look.

[Tara Jenkins]

No offense taken, and congratulations on your little one, hard to miss a table flip ascii. But those are terms I typically see only from forum trolls, and the explanation is why I do not wish to see them here if possible. Even brought up with no bad intentions, they're a little "charged" on the forums these days. And I hate being a wet blanket when I finally hear them too much. Sorry for the misunderstanding!

I honestly do not think Blizzard is aiming to do a complete overhaul for the females. Not just because of the wireframe and their prior tradition of dimorphism, but the Blizzard Insider interview with Ghostcrawler, seen here:

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/blog/3156639

Specfically, this!

"Finally, we came up with a silly racial, Bouncy, that causes them to take less falling damage. While the pandaren are as noble and epic as any of our races, we felt like we had to acknowledge their, shall we say, endomorphic body shape in some way."

They are speaking of the species as a whole, there, and call them endomorphic in build. And they seemed really proud of the male's stretch and squash animation physics, pointing out his bouncing belly specifically.

That, and, well, both here and on MMO-Champ, the forums seem to be decidedly in favor of a female that fits the male. The forum trolls may be in the beta, but they won't be the only ones.

[Dembai]

No offense taken, and congratulations on your little one, hard to miss a table flip ascii. But those are terms I typically see only from forum trolls, and the explanation is why I do not wish to see them here if possible. Even brought up with no bad intentions, they're a little "charged" on the forums these days. And I hate being a wet blanket when I finally hear them too much. Sorry for the misunderstanding!

I honestly do not think Blizzard is aiming to do a complete overhaul for the females. Not just because of the wireframe and their prior tradition of dimorphism, but the Blizzard Insider interview with Ghostcrawler, seen here:

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/blog/3156639

Specfically, this!

"Finally, we came up with a silly racial, Bouncy, that causes them to take less falling damage. While the pandaren are as noble and epic as any of our races, we felt like we had to acknowledge their, shall we say, endomorphic body shape in some way."

They are speaking of the species as a whole, there, and call them endomorphic in build. And they seemed really proud of the male's stretch and squash animation physics, pointing out his bouncing belly specifically.

That, and, well, both here and on MMO-Champ, the forums seem to be decidedly in favor of a female that fits the male. The forum trolls may be in the beta, but they won't be the only ones.

Oh, that is true, I'd forgotten their mention of that!

That makes me a far happier panda. XD Hope for a round female returns!

(though now I have the Gummi bears song stuck in my head...I shall have to go fetch out my DVD and watch it. X3)

And yeah, no problem. I can understand what it's like - it's why I haven't done much drawing myself in the past few years. Some people (trolls) do trash really hard on people who take the time and effort to open themselves up to a broad community and make you feel like dirt for sharing your talent. I've been burned so hard so many times I have to say I was really proud that someone did this work without fear.

So mega kudos.

(Oh, it was mostly the nickname "Preggernaut" I was referencing. It's my Steam name. I play 40k PVP with baby blue and baby pink space marines, lol...that's about as troll as I get. XD)

[Master Yao]

First off let me express how much I enjoyed reading your post. You were very informative and I seem to agree with your theory on the character skeletons. I also liked your rendition of what the pandaren female should look like. If it indeed turns out how you depicted I may roll a female as well.

[Alewen]

Way to read into my comment without even looking at my sig, and take a massive amount of insults where none were intended. Golden rule indeed.

I'm fat, female, and pregnant, and totally into your art. I wasn't trying to bully you, or even insult us rounder-style females. I prefer women who have curves. Hyper-anorexic chicks really weird me out.

My concern about "whiners" is NOT about wanting sexy slim pandas (I'd actually prefer your style - which I LIKE!), but mostly due to the fact that the complaints aimed at what could have been a halfway decent (though a little round-headed) Worgen female, turned her into a slobbering cockeyed mess. I'm concerned that if Blizzard aimed for your style of female panda and permitted an early audience of it that we'd be treated to more of the same crap - ultimately resulting in what would only amount in something just a horrifying as the current female worgen.

If they aimed for something more sexy - it's probable that while we'd be treated to the same things we dealt with female Draenei (back in the day) which can be summed up with: "Furry art, eww" which would only result in a minor nerfing of their more animal features...instead of their feminine ones.

I'd like a curvy female. I am a curvy female. I doubt Blizzard will give us something as nice as your drawing because they are far too easily swayed by the forums when it comes to making good looking female characters. It's mostly irritation with Blizzard that I feel, but certainly not with your excellent breakdowns and drawings!

On these forums:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/2592425/

There's only 1 or 2 people now left on the opposing field. Everyone else is in love with Tara's latest version with the kimono dress on. Even I love it. The fact that now it is very clear a majority of us are agreeing on a fanart now, our chances of getting it are even greater.

[Deleted]

This looks awesome! Nice work!

[Rafal]

This sort of process should'a been applied to female worgen. *Face Palm* Female worgen are a proportional disaster in my mind.

[Narshe]

The difference between the two is apple and pear. I thought I had a preference for pear panda, but now that I've seen the Tara Jenkin's apple panda, I'm leaning towards the apple. Women place weight on their body in two different ways; men are always apples, but only some women are apples. One of the reasons I was initially leaning towards pear was because I thought it would help more clearly define the difference between males and females for the people who think the sexual dimorphism is a must.

Pear = Weight goes primarily to the hips, thighs, and butt
Apple = Weight is fairly evenly distributed around the body, centered on the stomach.

Women body type come in four shapes, not two. Apple and pear, yes, but also hourglass and banana. Apple shape is actually more top heavy, not evenly distributed, and points downwards in the shape of a triangle. The shoulders are usually wider, where as a pear will have shoulders and hips of the same width.

I personally prefer the pear body shape for this race overall, I like that these guys are wide and have a new type of body to WoW.

[Tara Jenkins]

Why not?

I know the claim is, "Nobody likes them and nobody plays them." But if you try to post that on the Blizzard forums the thread will be buried in posts by female Dwarfs making the claim look silly.

Speaking of strawman arguments!

According to WoW Census, the most-played class is Paladin, followed by Druid.

If you were Horde until Cata, your only option was Blood Elf for Paladin. If you were Alliance, your only choice for Druid was Night Elf.

Alliance-side, it was between Dwarves, Humans, and Draenei, with humans offering quite a bit more "bang for the buck" by way of racials. Gun specialization on a Pally?

As it stands, Draenei rank at 7% total played, only a bit ahead of Dwarves, at 5%.

I somehow doubt the validity of the claim they are more-played solely because of appearance.