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  1. #1
    Keyboard Turner Maea's Avatar
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    Post-Patch MoC Performance

    I'd love to hear what other druids are experiencing with the new update to MoC after Tuesday's patch. Please share!

  2. #2
    I can't be bothered to take it, Germ is just too good... Increasing how long it lasts doesn't make it any more reliable, unfortunately. It's still just as likely to proc free heals directly when you don't need them in raid. I've never been fond of the talent.

  3. #3
    I dabbled in it and might just need more time with it. I was so focused on trying to maximize it that it was like waiting on pins and needles for a proc. When the procs came it was great, I was dishing out un-glyphed regrowths like crazy but the spam mentality wasn't carrying over well when anything short of insane burst healing was needed. When things got hectic like last phase of Iron Maidens then the playstyle went completely out the window for me. I fell back to WG and rejuv blanketing in order to keep some semblance of mana conservancy.

    The RNG seems to unreliable and the window to short to justify but like I said, maybe with some more practice it would be nice. Would need some nice Weakauras to compliment it I imagine; if I'm in the middle of some raid heals and I look up to see the proc I really have no idea how much time is left, i.e. how many casts I should spit out.

    It really only seems viable with ToL obviously and as stated above just doesn't compete with Germ at all.

  4. #4
    Keyboard Turner Maea's Avatar
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    I am afraid I would be missing part of the 7 seconds if shit is hectic and ToL isn't up (or if you're using SotF). Also, if there is no dmg occurring to the raid, what then? I suppose we can treat it like a normal OoC proc if nothing is going on and refresh LB/Harmony on tank. Maybe I could analyze specific fights but it's just so random that I'm not sure it would help me determine its worth over Germ.

  5. #5
    edit: read DoC
    Last edited by Erzengel; 2015-02-26 at 02:25 AM.
    To quote my two favorite philosophers, let’s “be excellent to each other and party on, dudes!” – Zarhym

  6. #6
    I think the only way to use it is in very long, mana intensive fights that have somewhat consistent Raiddmg coming in. I tried it out on Furnace and Darmac Heroic today and since I'm playing with a DoC + SotF build, I found it to be useful, but I can't say that it made a gigantic difference. Whenever it procced I was basically casting free regrowths instead of using that time to cast DoC-Wraths, which is in comparison a good healing increase, but I found myself prioritising the use of those proccs above stuff like putting down a mushroom or casting a SotF-Wildgrowth, which might be a misplay on my part ( maybe someone knows the math?), but if I can't utilize the whole 7 seconds, I don't think it's ever worth taking the talent. It gives you a little bit more healing via Regrowth, but it takes away a bit from your Rejuvs.

  7. #7
    Maybe if they changed it to proc a buff that lasted some amount of time that made you're next RG start the actual MoC buff so you could have some control of the window. If you're mid cast or not sitting waiting for it then you lose a huge chunk of the duration innately most of the time.

  8. #8
    Keyboard Turner Maea's Avatar
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    Thanks for all the replies, everyone!

    Anyone have a more positive experience with MoC changes? Currently I'm still with Germ, but I know play styles out there may favor MoC.

  9. #9
    I switched to a SoTF + DOC build on 6.1 just to try the changes. While wiping HC maidens myself and the other Rdruid decided to try out MOC and to my surprise I actually like it, I still tried to germ the tank forgetting I cant double rejuv but yeah I got the proc quite often (most was 4 times in a row) which I spent casting regrowths

  10. #10
    MOC, for me at least, is a huge increase in hps throughout most fights(im talking AT LEAST 5k more than before). I was using sotf+DOC+germ before 6.1 and after I saw the new talent changes and blizzards stance on making them all viable I decided to experiment.

    I saw that on average logs where showing germ healing for 500k-800k per fight, not just for me but for other druid healers I would raid with. MOC on the other hand usually heals for 2mil on most fights, and potentially much higher if I'm lucky on procs (7mil on an iron maidens hc kill). Sotf WG was my highest healing ability usually with regrowths being second highest and rejuv being third.

    I like it because I can track it very well, I have a timer near my raid frames that shows me how much time i have left on it. I usually get about 4-5 casts off with it. Glyphed I get 40k crits and in theory my living seed is supposed to heal for 20k afterwards. If it procs and there is no one to heal I use it to blanket living seeds and to refresh lifebloom. My uptime for lifebloom has gone up to near perfect levels(about 90-95%) and on every fight i have a clearclasting proc uptime of 35%.

    One of the best parts of it is it's high output with 0 mana cost(unless you misjudge the cast and the buff falls off prematurely). I am a much better place in mana during many fights for example hc kromog or maidens I would be at 30% mana, I found myself hovering above 60-80% much of the time.

    Germ just feels much weaker since it usually only gets its benefit by being blanketed on tanks and maybe once a fight where sotf wg isn't enough to keep up most of the raid. at the end of the day 500-800k healing doesn't justify using it. lifebloom heals more than it on its own.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by barettalol View Post
    MOC, for me at least, is a huge increase in hps throughout most fights(im talking AT LEAST 5k more than before). I was using sotf+DOC+germ before 6.1 and after I saw the new talent changes and blizzards stance on making them all viable I decided to experiment.

    I saw that on average logs where showing germ healing for 500k-800k per fight, not just for me but for other druid healers I would raid with. MOC on the other hand usually heals for 2mil on most fights, and potentially much higher if I'm lucky on procs (7mil on an iron maidens hc kill). Sotf WG was my highest healing ability usually with regrowths being second highest and rejuv being third.

    I like it because I can track it very well, I have a timer near my raid frames that shows me how much time i have left on it. I usually get about 4-5 casts off with it. Glyphed I get 40k crits and in theory my living seed is supposed to heal for 20k afterwards. If it procs and there is no one to heal I use it to blanket living seeds and to refresh lifebloom. My uptime for lifebloom has gone up to near perfect levels(about 90-95%) and on every fight i have a clearclasting proc uptime of 35%.

    One of the best parts of it is it's high output with 0 mana cost(unless you misjudge the cast and the buff falls off prematurely). I am a much better place in mana during many fights for example hc kromog or maidens I would be at 30% mana, I found myself hovering above 60-80% much of the time.

    Germ just feels much weaker since it usually only gets its benefit by being blanketed on tanks and maybe once a fight where sotf wg isn't enough to keep up most of the raid. at the end of the day 500-800k healing doesn't justify using it. lifebloom heals more than it on its own.
    you said it all, felling the same way about MoC germination its just overheal, the +3 secs most of the time they overhealed, loads of free healing, btw you geming haste or mastery? with this playstyle haste should be better i guess more procs and stuff

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by LuRu9 View Post
    you said it all, felling the same way about MoC germination its just overheal, the +3 secs most of the time they overhealed, loads of free healing, btw you geming haste or mastery? with this playstyle haste should be better i guess more procs and stuff
    It's a mix. I generally have 5-6% more mastery though. It doesn't bother me honestly because you would probably need a lot more haste to get 1 more regrowth off anyway. On top of that Mastery increases direct healing too so I just balance them to be honest and not let one get too low.

    The best is using a proc or on use haste trinket (I use both) because you get waaaay more casts in during a proc and if that happens during phases of heavy aoe healing you can sotf wg and spam like 7-8 regrowths on a proc effectively topping the entire raid.

    I know what some nay-sayers will claim that it's too RNG but my uptime is generally at about 35% of a fight which means over a third of the fight i have free regrowth spam. So i'm not that worried about the RNG. And for anyone worried about getting and wasting procs because they cant see it or its over by the time they can start casting regrowths, it very often procs 2-4 times in a row, and you can fix lack of tracking by using a timer addon. I use the default elvui auras.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by barettalol View Post
    It's a mix. I generally have 5-6% more mastery though. It doesn't bother me honestly because you would probably need a lot more haste to get 1 more regrowth off anyway. On top of that Mastery increases direct healing too so I just balance them to be honest and not let one get too low.

    The best is using a proc or on use haste trinket (I use both) because you get waaaay more casts in during a proc and if that happens during phases of heavy aoe healing you can sotf wg and spam like 7-8 regrowths on a proc effectively topping the entire raid.

    I know what some nay-sayers will claim that it's too RNG but my uptime is generally at about 35% of a fight which means over a third of the fight i have free regrowth spam. So i'm not that worried about the RNG. And for anyone worried about getting and wasting procs because they cant see it or its over by the time they can start casting regrowths, it very often procs 2-4 times in a row, and you can fix lack of tracking by using a timer addon. I use the default elvui auras.
    Could you provide some logs? In mythic I feel it's such a hassle to keep track of that aswell and then drop hps because of micro managing the free mana buff. I have been playing around with all specs/talents since 6.1 but every fight seems to be tuned for a diff. healing build

  14. #14
    It won't let me until i post more often.

  15. #15
    Germination is useless talent. "pro druids" told us to get it just because they told us to do it. Currently, MoC is lovely, so many free regrowths. 3 seconds of additional overheal and Reju (germ) is rarely used (moar overheal). I have better healing with MoC than Germination.

  16. #16
    I tried to switch back to germ and honestly I hated it, I missed the free regrowth too much and my HPS decreased. I use a weakaura for the proc so I never miss it when its in the middle of the screen. Germ is just overheal imo

  17. #17
    If more gear means people generally get healed to full faster, Germination lose value.

    Mathematically balancing Mastery/Haste the same way as required to maximise HoT HPM should also max the extra healing of MoC. Though I'm thinking there will be a haste breakpoint, depending on how fast you are usually able to react which together with Haste defines how many casts you will get off.

    Maybe MoC becomes stronger in scenarios (healer comp or lowplayercount heroic) where we have to tank heal alot. All the Living Seeds should really help smooth out the tank's HP.

  18. #18
    I normally don't heal (maining moonkin) but occasionally if my raid is short of healers i help out. That being said, i'm not the most familiar with most fight's damage patterns.
    I played the normal ToL/NV/Germ and actually hated "having" to applay two rejuvs everytime. Especially using Genesis was more a pain than anything because you are so busy applying rejuvs back.
    So i tried the new MoC yesterday (just some healing dummy and LFR) and SotF/DoC. I'm actually amazed how absolutely different the healing style for the same class (druid) is with a different talent setup. Awesome.

    The main problem I and most others have is the unpredictability of the MoC-Proccs. They will proc, for sure, but not everytime when you can make the most advantage of them. The same can be said for Germ, as a lot of times it will be active, but overhealing.

    I'd consider the healing model DoC/MoC more engaging and refreshing but not necessarily more effective. I think for progression it would be too unpredictable for me (as in no control who will be healed by DoC and when MoC is up).

    Plus i think i'd unglyph regrowth with MoC, because when throwing them on the raid the Seed is likely to not trigger and you have more hots active to Swiftmend from (if specced into SotF).

  19. #19
    I was playing SotF+Rampant Growth on hc blackhand for output and you obviously want to swiftmend regrowths so I ended up casting more of them and I just thought how well MoC would fit this style if they weren't on the same tier. Shame
    Then again I'm not sure why it wasn't a "legendary meta proc" to begin with.

  20. #20
    Bloodsail Admiral Chrispotter's Avatar
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    Played with MOC on our Blast furnace mythic farm kill yesterday. Worked pretty well, there really is not that much movement so you can make use of most of your procs and in such a long fight its nice to have some mana-free spot healing for people dropping low before blasts. Blast furance is also good for Germination because of the constant damage but I think MOC was just as good, and I was fairly unlucky with procs. In this imaginary world that blizzard lives in where 'triage healing' is real, then germination would be miles better on every single fight, but in the real world where the raid often need to be healed up within 5-10 seconds or the next ability is going to kill them, I think Moment of clarity could find a place on some fights.

    For instance I would not take MOC for blackhand mythic so far because there is alot of movement and alot of procs would be wasted, but where there is not much movement and the fight is long enough to warrant the mana gains I think MOC can be good.
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