1. #1

    [Shadow] How important is it to reach 30% haste, really?

    In a real combat scenario, with near 100% uptime on DoTs, how large is the DPS increase i'd get from having 30% vs say 29.5%?
    It seems to me that i'd just get a 0.5% damage increase, or am i missing something?


    Thing is, I could reach 30%, but that means using a lower ilvl ring with less intellect etc.

  2. #2
    you get an additional vt tick what makes it smoother to play(smoother because vt regains it´s full duration of 15 sec and is not shorter -> you don´t have to reaply it as often) -> shortly before reaching that cap haste grows alot stronger. But it´s usually not worth dropping int for it -> keep that higher int and look if haste on boots/hands instead of the mastery enchants is enough for you. For definate results you have to sim it
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  3. #3
    Well, when I was ~60 haste rating below 30% Simcraft told me that 1 haste was > 1 int. I.e. it was better to socket haste instead of int to reach the soft cap. And the resulting dps gain was quite noticeable.

    You gain an additional tick of VT at 30% => you have to recast it less often => you have a spare gcd to toss in say an additional MF => more dps.

  4. #4
    Like Ravyna said, it's probably not worth dropping much int for the haste if you need a lot of points to get there. But if you're extremely close, you should go for it.

    Since 1% haste is 128.057 haste rating, .5% is 64.0285 and it's most likely not worth it.

    You could figure out your actual DPS loss by using simcraft for your character's stat weights and then just do
    DPS_Difference=64.0285*(Haste_Stat_Weight - Int_Stat_Weight). If the number is small enough for your liking, may as well go for it Of course, if the haste stat weight is greater than that of intellect then it would be a DPS gain.
    Last edited by Venith; 2011-10-20 at 11:29 PM.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Venith View Post
    Like Ravyna said, it's probably not worth dropping much int for the haste if you need a lot of points to get there. But if you're extremely close, you should go for it.

    Since 1% haste is 128.057 haste rating, .5% is 64.0285 and it's most likely not worth it.

    You could figure out your actual DPS loss by using simcraft for your character's stat weights and then just do
    DPS_Difference=64.0285*(Haste_Stat_Weight - Int_Stat_Weight). If the number is small enough for your liking, may as well go for it Of course, if the haste stat weight is greater than that of intellect then it would be a DPS gain.
    I should add that you can replace 64.0285 with whatever you are from that 30% mark. (30 - Current_Haste%)*128.057=New_Value.
    Venith did, all correctly, assume that you are 0.5 form the haste cap. If the actual number is for example 0.7% you would just need to multiply 0.7 with 128.057 (0.7*128.057=89.6399)

    The formula is then:

    DPS_Difference=((30 - Current_Haste%)*128.057)*(Haste_Stat_Weight - Int_Stat_Weight)

    Just for clarification

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Koire View Post
    You gain an additional tick of VT at 30% => you have to recast it less often => you have a spare gcd to toss in say an additional MF => more dps.
    --->more mind flays ticks --> more mf crits --> lesser CD on shadowfiend ---> redundant dps gain ^^.

    Our sinergy between secondary stats is so lovely it's hard to believe it's true.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Koire View Post
    You gain an additional tick of VT at 30% => you have to recast it less often => you have a spare gcd to toss in say an additional MF => more dps.
    Quote Originally Posted by Purpleisbetter View Post
    --->more mind flays ticks --> more mf crits --> lesser CD on shadowfiend ---> redundant dps gain ^^.
    ---> more MF ticks ---> more orb proc chances ---> less ES downtime and harder hitting MB ---> moar DPS
    Quote Originally Posted by Purpleisbetter View Post
    Power Torrent, Volcano and Theralion proc'ed, dots just refreshed. Everyone dies. Just a tank and a boss with around 200k hp. Everyone in vt yells "omg we failed omg omg" and you "don't worry amigos, my dots are steamrolling!". Boss dies while you'd say "Enjoy your loots" with a lot of purple awesomness spilling thru your voice. Just happend yesterday.

    Seriously, i thought i'd reroll warlock for 4.2, but that was the sign that i'm purple inside and i can't reroll. never.

  8. #8
    --> more uptime of VT ---> more MB ---> higher uptime of replenishment ---> more mana for everyone!

    (i think we can keep going forever like this )

  9. #9
    Heap - it is worth about 40-50 PP (40-50 intellect). If you are very close to it, you can gem to reach it and should see a small gain. It's not be-all end-all, but it's worth switching some gear up to reach it when you are close.
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  10. #10
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    I thought it was 27.something% haste?
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  11. #11
    1st of all, you don't need .5% haste to go from 29.5% to 30.02%.

    How much haste rating are you off by/how much Int will you be sacrificing to gain it?

    more 50 Int - not really worth it
    less than 50 Int - got for it.

    And yes, I am currently in a similar scenario due to the Hallow Eve's Haste ring.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Ultima View Post
    I thought it was 27.something% haste?
    That's only if you get DI

  13. #13
    You won't get another VT tick at 30% what I know. Me as a goblin just got another tick on DP at 31,3% haste (2597rating) and I think you gain the tick around ~2590 as goblin 1%haste from racial= 128.05701 haste raiting, so 2718,05 haste raiting for everyone else to get the 11 ticks on DP. And then I wont really go for more haste, I been up to 3000 raiting without geting anything our from it except abit faster MF cast. So yeah, I don't really see why.

    And if you check howtopriest and their BiS list from moderators they wont get more haste then this either..

    But this is just my thoguhts!

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by LaidtoRest View Post
    You won't get another VT tick at 30% what I know. Me as a goblin just got another tick on DP at 31,3% haste (2597rating) and I think you gain the tick around ~2590 as goblin 1%haste from racial= 128.05701 haste raiting, so 2718,05 haste raiting for everyone else to get the 11 ticks on DP. And then I wont really go for more haste, I been up to 3000 raiting without geting anything our from it except abit faster MF cast. So yeah, I don't really see why.

    And if you check howtopriest and their BiS list from moderators they wont get more haste then this either..

    But this is just my thoguhts!
    Goblins haste are not a true 1% haste gain (read, you don't start with 1% haste as a goblin when others have 0), just saying.

  15. #15
    At the most extreme value, going from 2588 to 2589 changes your VT duration from 13.85s to 16.15s which works out to a GCD every 96.95s.

    You will 'gain' a second every (96.95s/1.15s) = 84.30s

    Converting into terms of DPS:

    At 20k DPS: 237.25 DPS (20,000/84.30)
    At 30k DPS: 355.87 DPS (30,000/84.30)

    NOTE: This is only for single target fights. For each additional target you refresh VT on, the gain multiplies (until you reach the point where you can no longer practically run dots on all.)

    P.S: Somehow, I feel I did the theory wrong somewhere (the math is correct though) if anyone would like comment, please do.
    Last edited by Solia; 2011-10-24 at 07:23 PM. Reason: The gain was 2x more than it should have been.

  16. #16
    Goblins haste are not a true 1% haste gain (read, you don't start with 1% haste as a goblin when others have 0), just saying.
    Don't listen to this. Goblins have 1% HASTE, not casting speed, not untrue Haste, and Trolls have a 20% HASTE CD, not casting speed.

    You won't get another VT tick at 30% what I know. Me as a goblin just got another tick on DP at 31,3% haste (2597rating) and I think you gain the tick around ~2590 as goblin 1%haste from racial= 128.05701 haste raiting, so 2718,05 haste raiting for everyone else to get the 11 ticks on DP. And then I wont really go for more haste, I been up to 3000 raiting without geting anything our from it except abit faster MF cast. So yeah, I don't really see why.

    And if you check howtopriest and their BiS list from moderators they wont get more haste then this either..

    But this is just my thoguhts!
    This is also wrong. How many times do we have to link this?

    VT2: 2589
    VT2 Goblin: 2437

    VT2 DI: 2141
    VT2 DI Goblin: 1993

    Imp DP is NOT affected by haste multipliers such as Shadow Form (5%), DI (3%), BL/Hero.

    DP3: 2737
    DP3 Goblin: 2583

    DP3 DI: 2284
    DP3 DI Goblin: 2135

    The above is only for resetting the duration of DP, to boost the dmg of Imp DP, you need like 3200 Haste (don't remember the exact number, it's not important yet, since reaching those Haste values is not possible in a properly optimized gearset this Tier)
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by ThrashMetalFtw View Post
    The above is only for resetting the duration of DP, to boost the dmg of Imp DP, you need like 3200 Haste (don't remember the exact number, it's not important yet, since reaching those Haste values is not possible in a properly optimized gearset this Tier)
    3202 for Imp DP bump, just for the sake of knowing, because knowing is half the battle and stuff...

  18. #18
    Yes 30% is really that much worth it.

    You will notice your rotation will improve greatly. There will be more synergy with dot refreshes, trink procs, etc.

  19. #19
    Been running with the 30% (well, 31.25% but that's irrelevant) threshold for ages and I couldn't imagine playing without it now...I'm spoiled with always having DI though
    But yeah if you're not sacrificing much to reach that point, definitely do it, everything is so much smoother

  20. #20
    Yep once i got to 30% haste my dps has opened up to be alot better. it just...FEELS better its pretty sweet.

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