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  1. #1

    Repudiation of War

    The new priest trinket drops from Archimonde, the last boss in HFC. I've been playing a bit with it, and these are my impressions so far:

    For shadow, the trinket places a stacking debuff on the target, which increases the damage taken from your mind spells by 3.29% per stack: Mind Spike, Mind Blast, Mind Flay, and Insanity. (Mind Sear is currently not being affected by Mental Fatigue).

    With AS, the trinket debuff is refreshed naturally while playing AS as usual on a single target fight, the problem is that as the number of targets increases, you get less MF uptime, and since Mental Fatigue is a debuff placed on the target, you'll have to switch targets constantly to keep the debuff up on more than one target.

    With CoP, it looks like haste breakpoints are back. We'll likely start the fight building up Mental Fatigue stacks (with an even worse burst on pull than usual because of this), and after that you need at least 1 tic of MF every 10 seconds to keep the debuff up, so you'll want to have enough haste (easily attainable with t18 gear) to go through a (MSpx3 + MB + MSpx2 + MF) cycle in under 10 seconds. Otherwise you'll have to replace every 5th Mind Spike with a Mind Flay to keep Mental Fatigue up, which while still higher dps than not keeping Mental Fatigue up at all, is lower than replacing one in six spikes with a MF, and makes up for a much clunkier rotation.

    With Void Entropy, it's awesome. Everything is awesome. It's fun, it's engaging, it's powerful, I'm taking it for every single fight now. </sarcasm>

    For Holy, while in Chakra: Sanctuary, it increases the cast time and mana cost of Heal by 49% and increases its healing by 99%. I.e., it pretty much turns Heal into Greater Heal, our long lost big slow heal which has had no use since the beginning of Cataclysm. I honestly can't picture myself needing to use it with the current healing mechanics.

    For Disc, your Penance, Flash Heal, Heal, and Prayer of Healing also grant Naaru's Discipline to allies, reducing damage taken by X% for 10 sec. I haven't played disc since WoD started and I don't intend to, so I haven't played with this. The damage reduction looks like a nice perk though.

  2. #2
    I'll be honest, I miss Greater Heal. Our current 'Heal' is supposed to be 'Greater Heal', but it feels like the MOP/Cata era Heal-- i.e. a useless filler. At least taking Clarity of Will for Discipline allows you to have a big single target heal again.

    If Repudiation actually makes Heal feel like a beefy spell instead of a wet squib, I might actually use it (and go back to Holy).

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by davesignal View Post
    If Repudiation actually makes Heal feel like a beefy spell instead of a wet squib, I might actually use it (and go back to Holy).
    I don't see any holy priest using this trinket outside of CMs. It's catastrophic.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bootybear View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Valancer View Post
    I play as a holy priest and when I ran hfc lfr I noticed after the first boss my heal spell wasn't casting. So I looked at it and it shows that it has a 34.4 min cast time
    Do you have the class trinket? If so, the cast time is correct. /s

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by davesignal View Post
    If Repudiation actually makes Heal feel like a beefy spell instead of a wet squib, I might actually use it (and go back to Holy).
    It feels beefier of course, just not beefy enough to warrant the extra 50% cast time. By the time you finish casting it, half of it will probably go to overheal.

  5. #5
    As a disc priest, I'm not really sure how I feel about our version of the trinket, taking less damage can be pretty great during progression. Also based on the wording I assume (hope?) that penancing a target will give everyone in the raid / within range the damage reduction buff?
    The fact that it drops from the last boss means that honestly, its only really useful if you get it on heroic (or from your cache) and then begin progressing on mythic bosses.
    It's probably not very useful on a lot of fights, I haven't been looking at any of the HFC fights, but for a current example, I'd probably use that trinket on fights that are similar to Mythic Kromog and Mythic Blast Furnace because of how frequent the high AoE damage comes out, which will maximise the benefit of the damage reduction.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by rtzqt View Post
    As a disc priest, I'm not really sure how I feel about our version of the trinket, taking less damage can be pretty great during progression. Also based on the wording I assume (hope?) that penancing a target will give everyone in the raid / within range the damage reduction buff?
    The fact that it drops from the last boss means that honestly, its only really useful if you get it on heroic (or from your cache) and then begin progressing on mythic bosses.
    It's probably not very useful on a lot of fights, I haven't been looking at any of the HFC fights, but for a current example, I'd probably use that trinket on fights that are similar to Mythic Kromog and Mythic Blast Furnace because of how frequent the high AoE damage comes out, which will maximise the ben efit of the damage reduction.
    i have always found it confusing how people speak of kromog bf and bh as though they aren't the only relevant fights in brf from a healing perspective.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenyans View Post
    i have always found it confusing how people speak of kromog bf and bh as though they aren't the only relevant fights in brf from a healing perspective.
    I'm not saying that. I'm saying that if Repudiation of War existed in the game right now, then only fights with consistently high raid damage would make this trinket effective. In saying that, I would add Gruul to that list, solely because the damage is dealt in large chunks, and reducing that damage even by 10% makes things more manageable. (Not that the damage on that fight is unmanageable at all)

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by rtzqt View Post
    I'm not saying that. I'm saying that if Repudiation of War existed in the game right now, then only fights with consistently high raid damage would make this trinket effective. In saying that, I would add Gruul to that list, solely because the damage is dealt in large chunks, and reducing that damage even by 10% makes things more manageable. (Not that the damage on that fight is unmanageable at all)
    Would they though? It's not like you're single target healing much/ever in those fights. At best you could time it for Crippling Suplex, but that's about it. I can see holy getting some use out of it in Challenge Modes, but really, the holy variation is probably in the top 5 worst trinkets ever put into the game.

    Also worth noting, the mythic version is actually the worst out of the three, and the normal one is the best, but this is probably a bug.
    Last edited by Thirteen; 2015-05-19 at 02:17 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bootybear View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Valancer View Post
    I play as a holy priest and when I ran hfc lfr I noticed after the first boss my heal spell wasn't casting. So I looked at it and it shows that it has a 34.4 min cast time
    Do you have the class trinket? If so, the cast time is correct. /s

  9. #9
    At best you could time it for Crippling Suplex
    It was my understanding that this had a 100% up time, 10 second duration, and all you have to do is cast penance on CD to keep it up?

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by rtzqt View Post
    It was my understanding that this had a 100% up time, 10 second duration, and all you have to do is cast penance on CD to keep it up?
    On that same target, yep.

  11. #11
    The Disc version doesn't mesh well with offensive Penance/gaining Evangelism (assuming no 2pc T17).

  12. #12
    As disc, throwing away upwards of ~1000 secondary stats or equivalent isn't worth the small damage reduction.

    Unless there are more fights like Iron Maidens, Mar'gok and Blackhand which feature a very small select group of players taking telegraphed otherwise-fatal damage.
    Last edited by PosPosPos; 2015-05-19 at 01:13 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by btard View Post
    Paladin can't be balanced the way you want. You either run 2 or run 0. Because paladin don't have a niche and can do anything. And because paladins are not limited by weakened soul.
    /slowclap
    Because double Beacons, BoP, Sac and Devo are not niches.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by rtzqt View Post
    It was my understanding that this had a 100% up time, 10 second duration, and all you have to do is cast penance on CD to keep it up?
    Oh sorry um, my underslept as fuck brain didn't read that and thought it was a holy priest commenting >_<
    Quote Originally Posted by Bootybear View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Valancer View Post
    I play as a holy priest and when I ran hfc lfr I noticed after the first boss my heal spell wasn't casting. So I looked at it and it shows that it has a 34.4 min cast time
    Do you have the class trinket? If so, the cast time is correct. /s

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Dierdre View Post
    On that same target, yep.
    Is it not a raidwide buff? If not then I take back everything I said about it being viable on some fights, I would never use that.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by rtzqt View Post
    Is it not a raidwide buff? If not then I take back everything I said about it being viable on some fights, I would never use that.
    Did you actually think there was a trinket that gave your entire raid an additional +10% damage reduction? It's on anyone you heal, and it looks to be pretty insane as is.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bootybear View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Valancer View Post
    I play as a holy priest and when I ran hfc lfr I noticed after the first boss my heal spell wasn't casting. So I looked at it and it shows that it has a 34.4 min cast time
    Do you have the class trinket? If so, the cast time is correct. /s

  16. #16
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Dierdre I liked your feedback and tweeted it to the devs (hopefully you don't mind) - I think you summed up why I dislike it really well: which is hard to do on twitter beyond "Trinket sucks, plz fix, kthxbye"

    @WarcraftDevs @Celestalon Your thoughts on Priest trinket (Repudiation of War) feedback? http://bit.ly/1cNgHJn


    Repudiation of War exacerbates the worst parts of both Auspicious Spirits and Clarity of Power. I like that it has such a dramatic effect on play-style (I want to encourage them to make unique trinkets rather than just stat rocks), but this particular design breaks the synergies of our current playstyle and makes them feel discombobulated - weaving in flays where they shouldn't be to maintain the buff and etc.

    Even if it is optimal to juggle the trinket buff uptime, that juggling act is already something that Shadow does more than most (if not all) other specs. Adding in another conflicting layer makes the spec feel less fluid, and more dependent on weak auras - which seems to be against their design goal for this expansion.

    A more interesting trinket would provide a singular powerful buff to one spell, and see how that alters our priorities on different fight types. For example, if the trinket just said "Your Mind Blast now hits 50% harder" - that would help to teach people how important nailing your orb generators really is - it would reinforce a good behaviour. The same would work for Devouring Plague (encouraging players to never risk wasting the 6th orb), or Shadow Word: Death, similarly encouraging players to seek out low hp targets.

    Alternately, a trinket could change the functionality of a spell for one tier, with more traditional alternative trinkets also available - and see how that mixes things up. Which fights would we find ways to make the weird trinket work on, and why?

    Repudiation of War gives us another short duration effect (buffs and debuffs) to juggle - Shadow consists entirely of that mechanic rehashed. A trinket could give us a burst window to optimize (like the Dragon Soul tier set did with Shadowfiend=3 Orbs on-hit), or an adjustment to our priorities (paragraph above), or an optional (in that we can choose to use a different trinket) added synergy to a play-style or encounter type.
    Last edited by Yvaelle; 2015-05-19 at 06:21 PM.
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  17. #17
    Dear blizzard, If you make trinkets, make it a buff, not a debuff. Debuff gameplay is very annoying and it just doesn't make sense.

    The trinket would already be 100% better if it's a buff (same with that doom trinket, make that a buff too).

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Thirteen View Post
    It's on anyone you heal, and it looks to be pretty insane as is.
    Time to put Holy Nova back on my bars.
    Whaleshark /spits on your science.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Irefusetodie View Post
    Time to put Holy Nova back on my bars.
    Anyone you heal with Penance, Flash Heal, Heal, and Prayer of Healing, actually :x
    Quote Originally Posted by Bootybear View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Valancer View Post
    I play as a holy priest and when I ran hfc lfr I noticed after the first boss my heal spell wasn't casting. So I looked at it and it shows that it has a 34.4 min cast time
    Do you have the class trinket? If so, the cast time is correct. /s

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Thirteen View Post
    Anyone you heal with Penance, Flash Heal, Heal, and Prayer of Healing, actually :x
    Well then I guess Holy Nova will forever remain unused.
    Whaleshark /spits on your science.

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