Page 1 of 5
1
2
3
... LastLast
  1. #1

    Demonstration of how to play Disc well in raid environment?

    Is there a video or anything somewhere showing how disc works in a raid setting? I can totally see it functioning well in dungeons, it makes great sense to me. But I cannot for the life of me see its worth or ability in a raid environment. I really like it in dungeons even at its crap tuning level on live (no doubt artifact starved) but if I can't be brought around to see the light on disc in a raid OR if it'll be mandatory to switch to Holy for some fights, I won't be playing a priest for legion.

  2. #2
    It's actually the complete opposite of what you seem to be expecting. Disc is TERRIBLE in dungeons because its throughput it so low, particularly when it comes to burst. However, in raids it can provide a steady stream of healing to a lot of people, all the while adding some moderate DPS to the encounter. This can be a desirable thing in raids, and easily incorporated into the overall healing plan where you assign specific roles to various healers - something which for obvious reasons does not work in a dungeon group with a single healer.

  3. #3
    In a raid setting Disc is very complicated, since it's ideal to predict in advance who's going to take damage - even as deep of knowledge as understanding each raider's personal tendencies and mechanics weaknesses helps. Other healing specs are reactive, as opposed to (in theory) Disc's proactivity.

    Generally, at all times you want to maintain atonement on the active tank(s) and anyone with a damage debuff - anyone who you are *certain* will be taking damage in the upcoming seconds of the encounter. Otherwise focus on upcoming damage mechanics and atoning in advance of it, so that after the mechanic occurs you can immediately DPS to heal up the raid.

    Any mana use *in addition* to what I just described is dependent on what the encounter permits - either additional atonements can be placed and/or extra DPS can be put out to use up otherwise idle mana.

  4. #4
    Immortal
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    7,354
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    It's actually the complete opposite of what you seem to be expecting. Disc is TERRIBLE in dungeons because its throughput it so low, particularly when it comes to burst. However, in raids it can provide a steady stream of healing to a lot of people, all the while adding some moderate DPS to the encounter. This can be a desirable thing in raids, and easily incorporated into the overall healing plan where you assign specific roles to various healers - something which for obvious reasons does not work in a dungeon group with a single healer.
    Uh, actually, where disc seems to shine most is burst (in raid groups) and I certainly can keep up with out holy priests (who have the same kind of gear as me) even without our artefact ability, depending on fights. Some favour me, some them, some favour other specs.
    Sure, I'd like some recovery tool when something unexpected happens--having to run out of range just before a burst of damage comes in and thus having not enough atonements up is a pain--but otherwise disc pretty well rounded.

    I just wish I could set up some dummy, dot myself, or sacrifice someone to the old gods to make use of all those left over atonements on half dead idiots who stood in the fire but now feel the need to proove their ability to move by running around the next corner out of sight throwing themselves into the next group of mobs just far enough that all atonements expire jsut when I get the next target in range. Healing people up one by one with shadowmend out of combat is so tedious when all those atonements just sit ther taunting me. I'd really prefer the third option the most, they only rally need to work out of combat, too.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Noradin View Post
    Uh, actually, where disc seems to shine most is burst (in raid groups)
    That last part is the crucial one. Disc is great IN RAIDS, for various reasons (including the ones you mentioned). However, it just does not work very well in dungeon groups.

  6. #6
    Immortal
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    7,354
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    That last part is the crucial one. Disc is great IN RAIDS, for various reasons (including the ones you mentioned). However, it just does not work very well in dungeon groups.
    I didn't claim it did work very well in dungeon groups. I pointed out that the reson it works well in raids is its strength regarding short burst healing phases and not because it provides a steady stream of healing to a lot of people, that last part is actually something it struggles with due to mana and time restraints.

    The reason it has a hard time in dungeons is because it is slow to recover and reapplying atonement means a pause in outgoing healing.
    Dungeons are too fast paced for the setup of atonement healing to be comfortable.

  7. #7
    I understood you, I just wanted to make clear that I was referring to dungeons only when I was talking about burst, not about raids. Things are different in raids, for those reasons you mentioned (and others).

  8. #8
    Immortal
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    7,354
    Ok

    So to summarize: Disc has great burst healing but needs a long prepaeration time to set it up.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Noradin View Post
    Ok

    So to summarize: Disc has great burst healing but needs a long prepaeration time to set it up.
    Sort of. This is true if you play reactively, you'll always be behind.

    If you play proactively, when damage goes out that needs to be healed you'll be in a position to heal it. This is no different than Discipline in WoD, if you shielded people after the damage went out, you were less effective.

  10. #10
    Mechagnome Rife's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    616
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    Disc is TERRIBLE in dungeons because its throughput it so low, particularly when it comes to burst.
    Can we stop this meme?

    Shadow Mend is the strongest single target spammable heal in the game. It's similar in strength to a fully Mastery buffed Healing Surge with a Mastery priority stat build if that puts it into perspective.

    Once Discs get proper trinkets in Legion, learn to play their spec effectively and see the what the Legion damage patterns are like hopefully some of these stigmas can end.

    Discs don't have a Chain Heal or a similar 1 button AoE heal fix-all spell like other healers but to suggest that Discs lack AoE, burst or ST healing is disingenuous.

  11. #11
    Okay, let me rephrase.

    Disc is the lowest-performing of all healing specs across all classes when it comes to 5-man content. That does not make it objectively "terrible" because there is no such thing as objective judgment of performance, it just makes it worse than all the alternatives, including the one from the same class.

    Happy* now?




    *to specify, I do not mean objective "happiness" here, just a level of satisfaction adequate to express an understanding of my argument. Wouldn't want to get meme-stigmatized again.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    Disc is TERRIBLE in dungeons because its throughput it so low, particularly when it comes to burst.
    I'm sorry but you are so wrong. If specd into Grace, Shadow Mend is a very efficient heal. I have absolutely no issues healing any dungeon at all. You can heal up everyone in your party really quickly with PW:R and penance. If you are properly stacking haste, you should have no issues with healing up your group pretty quickly. If everyone in your group takes big damage and you don't have time to PW:R and penance, you or your group is just doing it wrong. Everyone needs to be accountable for playing correctly and not standing in stupid. Healers are there to heal incoming damage from a boss or mob. Not to heal you up constantly because you want to stay standing in fire or something else because you want to see big numbers in the meters. Don't let people forget, you do 0 dps when you're dead... so move your ass out of the fire.
    Stay weird. Stay strong and beautiful. It's those uniquenesses, those things that make us different that makes us powerful. Live to defy.

  13. #13
    I'm not sure what's going on all of a sudden.

    Disc isn't IMPOSSIBLE to use in dungeons. It works. It can do things. You'll finish runs, and if your gear is good you won't sweat it either.

    But every other healing spec in the game does that, too, and does it better.

    If you disagree, please let me know what healing spec is worse than Disc in 5-man dungeons.

  14. #14
    Mechagnome Rife's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    616
    Healers are so closely tuned in Legion that the group composition, trinket availability and dungeon selection determine the rankings.

    All healers can get +10 without issue so long as they're geared and the group is decent.

    Resto Shamans and Druids are what most people think are top dogs for 5 man content at the moment. Druids because Ironbark is game breakingly OP compared to all other ST healing CD's. The Rsham toolkit in 5 mans is almost entirely Healing Surge and they have to use Spirit Link for a tank cooldown and yet the consensus in beta is that they're arguably the best 5 man healer. Remember that most people playing beta are not comfortable or particularly good at playing the redesigned specs (Hpal, MW, Disc) so they default to their comfort classes (Rdruid, Rsham).

    Any rankings people have determined in beta are going to fluctuate wildly once tier sets and raid trinkets are available. Same again for Legendaries. Same again once artifacts are farmed and finished.

    Healers are so well balanced that the only real ranking is #1 Rdruid solely because Ironbark is retarded and then literally every other healer comes in equal second place.

    There is also a lot of misinformation and echo chamber bias going around at the moment, particularly with Disc. Half the people here seem to think that Disc AoE/burst healing is rubbish compared to other healers. A few days ago @Peárl showed that even average Discs are capable of Tranq level throughput every minute using Atonement, Penance, SWP and Mindbender. Wait till good Discs get trinkets and haste. Shit is going get real.

  15. #15
    It's not about whether you CAN do regular content, it's about HOW WELL you can do it (and how easily). And in that, Disc seems to have inherited the old Shadow Priest paradigm of "work harder than everyone else".

    To take your example: yes Disc can get AoE throughput comparable to Tranq. Tranq requires you to hit one button whenever you need it, and watch the pretty lights. Disc on the other hand will need to set up ten different things 20 seconds in advance, then spam a bunch of different abilities - just to get basically the same thing.

  16. #16
    'Inherited' implies that Shadow Priests somehow gave that paradigm up.

    A more accurate description is that it's spreading, like a contagious disease.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by davesignal View Post
    'Inherited' implies that Shadow Priests somehow gave that paradigm up.

    A more accurate description is that it's spreading, like a contagious disease.
    People have been accusing me of being too negative. I wanted to be nice for a change, and not trod out the whole "it's cancer" thing.

  18. #18
    Immortal
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    7,354
    Quote Originally Posted by lcs View Post
    Sort of. This is true if you play reactively, you'll always be behind.

    If you play proactively, when damage goes out that needs to be healed you'll be in a position to heal it. This is no different than Discipline in WoD, if you shielded people after the damage went out, you were less effective.
    Yes, basically, but catching up when you were prevented from properly setting up due to some random part of the encounter has become a bit harder and it is the spec's most obvious pitfall. Yes it can happen to other healers, and in raids there is someone to step in, but it will cause bad logs and raid leaders will remember it because it won't be what they are used to. They are used to the 'excuse' "I had to run out of range just after the damage hit", but we will have to use that one and the other one "I had to run out of range a few seconds before the damage hit".

    What they wil hardly remember--because they won't notice--are the times we save the raid by healing someone all the way out of range on the other side of the boss when they still have atonement and keeping the boss in range is sufficient for us to heal them. Seldom will anyone think to check why something worked as expected (despite something unexpeted happening that should have prevented it), most people only ever check when something unexpectedly failed.

  19. #19
    disc gonna booed out in pugs

    The avarage wow player can not comprehend that healer can and should do also dmg

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    Disc on the other hand will need to set up ten different things 20 seconds in advance, then spam a bunch of different abilities - just to get basically the same thing.
    What?? 10 different things 20 sec in advance then spam a bunch of different abilities? Do you even know how disc works?? Rapture, bubble, penance, done. It may take longer than 1 button but it'll be just as effective as tranq, if not better if done properly (at least before Tranquil Mind). Plus, Rapture is on a 2 min cd and Tranquility is on a 3 min cd.
    Stay weird. Stay strong and beautiful. It's those uniquenesses, those things that make us different that makes us powerful. Live to defy.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •