Fist of Justice, additional stun or replacement?

[Ap0calypse]

Does not say in the warriors "Cripple" ability that it replaces Hamstring. Just for what its worth.

[Ogrenix]

It may not say that cripple replaces hamstring, but we're not entirely sure that we're still learning hamstring.

As far as how it looks, it looks like hammer of justice is gone, and Fists of Justice is what you have to chose from. Fits too, since it matches warriors who have to choose an auto-apply snare or a stun as well.

[terrahero]

It may not say that cripple replaces hamstring, but we're not entirely sure that we're still learning hamstring.

As far as how it looks, it looks like hammer of justice is gone, and Fists of Justice is what you have to chose from. Fits too, since it matches warriors who have to choose an auto-apply snare or a stun as well.

Hard to say if this is balanced or not. We dont know the baseline toolkit. Pointless to compare talents one on one without knowing what other abilities a class can throw around.

One on one, SoJ looks a great deal worst then Cripple. And Fist of Justice looks beter then Throwdown, unless its still dispellable.

[Rayzen17]

One thing is, is HoJ staying and is improved by FoJ? Another thing would be: will the same happen to repentance? or do we lose it completely? because that would be something we should wonder about.

[Deleted]

Hm, at first I was completely sure the old hammer of justice would've been removed. But now I'm thinking, warriors get to keep their fear and hamstring (c'mon guys, they are not taking away abilities that have been in the game for so long, those are iconic) AND get to choose between stun/aoe snare/cripp poison ripoff....

There might actually be the chance HoJ is still baseline, even a 4sec stun duration would do the trick. It's just...if not, there's no real choice, otherwise FoJ would be the only choice since it's that good. I mean, it's basically a ranged kidney shot with slightly higher cooldown but without combo point restrictions.

[Mundayz]

well, if they do scrap hammer of justice... Ret's are going to be terrible.

[Malthanis]

well, if they do scrap hammer of justice... Ret's are going to be terrible.

Because, y'know, they aren't changing anything else about Retribution at all...

[Sartecho]

Ghostcrawler: "Harvest of Life upgrades Drain Life (Drain Life turns into Harvest, which is a mechanic we use for several spells such as Strangulate -> Asphyxiate and HoJ -> Fist of Justice)."

Fist upgrades HoJ.

[zcks]

Because, y'know, they aren't changing anything else about Retribution at all...

If their overhaul of paladins is anything like it was in cataclysm then he is actually right.

Here's hoping they actually put some thought, time & effort into it this time around.

[DrakeWurrum]

Hammer of Justice no longer exists in 5.0 from what they said at Blizzcon. You either get a stun or don't. Fists of Justice IS Hammer of Justice with a new name, shorter CD and longer range. Vaugnon, can you point a blue post that says exactly opposite what was said at Blizzcon?

GC said that Fist of Justice will upgrade Hammer of Justice in the live Q&A.

[Deleted]

GC said that Fist of Justice will upgrade Hammer of Justice in the live Q&A.

Good news. IMO HoJ is actually a too long stun really, much like CC over the line. PVP have become more of a what class you played instead of outplayed on same terms.

But i feel most paladin abilities are outdated, really outdated.

[Seani]

Why would anyone pick it then? It's identical to HoJ or is that in place of the talent that lowers the cooldown?

I beleive it has a 20 or 30 sec cooldown. HOJ has a base 60 sec cooldown. As a tank I would pick it up, I am always called upon to do interrupts whether its trash or a main boss. I use dbm and it tells me the big spells to interrupt, almost always these are more than 60 second intervals. Dps rarely interrupt, because they are mostly just focused on their damage meter.

[Eon Drache]

Ghostcrawler: "Harvest of Life upgrades Drain Life (Drain Life turns into Harvest, which is a mechanic we use for several spells such as Strangulate -> Asphyxiate and HoJ -> Fist of Justice)."

Fist upgrades HoJ.

This. Seems the talent panels were either misleading OR already changed. Great example of nothing is set in Stone

[Sartecho]

I beleive it has a 20 or 30 sec cooldown. HOJ has a base 60 sec cooldown. As a tank I would pick it up, I am always called upon to do interrupts whether its trash or a main boss. I use dbm and it tells me the big spells to interrupt, almost always these are more than 60 second intervals. Dps rarely interrupt, because they are mostly just focused on their damage meter.

30 second cooldown with a longer range than HoJ

For interrupts, can't you just use Rebuke? Why are you talking about using a stun for that?

DPS rarely interrupt? You're playing with bad, bad, bad players.

[Seani]

30 second cooldown with a longer range than HoJ

For interrupts, can't you just use Rebuke? Why are you talking about using a stun for that?

DPS rarely interrupt? You're playing with bad, bad, bad players.

If your not using an interrupt then your obviously not going to take this unless your pvp. Regardless you have 2 other options that are available depending on your playing style.

[Ap0calypse]

Hopefully we keep Repentance at a 1 minute cd as well seen as we keep Hammer. I guess that means we keep the crappy Seal of Justice too though >.>

I really want a Seal and Aura revamp to go along with these talent and skills changes. Ret Aura is terrible for a start, as is the obvious Seal of Justice, but debuff stacking on Seal of Truth is horrible when we already have Holy Power to deal with. Rogues get this in the Q&A "We also want to reduce the amount of ramping that rogue DPS requires, such as removing the need for Deadly Poison to stack", so I want the same treatment with Seal of Truth! Its only fair.

[Seani]

Another thing I noticed from the 5.0 calculator is you can take eternal glory and divine purpose from any spec. This would make eternal glory 45% for wog and light of dawn, I was thinking that would be amazing for a healer. Its also makes wog for a ret 45% chance to not consume holy power. This is of course if these effects stack additively and not multiplicitively. Either way it improves eternal glory.