1. #1

    Question regarding lifting and cardio work-outs.

    Will running have an impact on my gains?

    I really like to run and will most likely continue to do so even though it has an impact on my gains. The reason why i'am asking is that when i'm speaking to guys in the gym they do not understand why i'm running when trying to build muscle.

    My understanding is that it is mostly long distance running that drains your body from resources to such a degree that it burns muscle. I really enjoy the treadmill especially when it's cold outside.

    I always run the same distance: 5 kilometers / 3,10 miles. I run with a speed about 14-15 km/t. it takes me around 21-22 minutes to complete my workout. I never run the same day as i lift.


    Day 1: Run
    Day 2: Lift
    Day 3: Run
    Day 4: Lift
    Day 5: Run
    Day 6: Lift
    Dy 7: Off

  2. #2
    With the split you posted, there is no issue.

    Cardio (and more specifically on the higher intensity side) only hinders your gains if you do it after a workout.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Sup3rvillain View Post
    With the split you posted, there is no issue.
    Yes, there is, if he wants to get "gains".

    What is your kcal requirement for one day? Are you giving your organism enough? (you should have calculated it, if you're not then stop training because it's going to be useless and you'll build "low quality muscles" which are mostly just pumped water)
    Are you training strictly for Muscle Mass?

    Aerobe Trainings are usefull, but if you're going to build a muscle mass then you shouldn't do 5 of them a week! That's like trying to be more skinnier but still eating 2-3 pizzas a day. 2 of them is enough.

    Try running for ~10-15 min a day for 2 days a week, it's more than enough if you're starting the training.

    If you're advanced then I recommend you traing at ~70-75% HR on an empty stomach 2-3 days a week at the mornings(why? becuse your organism after a night is empty of glikogen andit's going to use fat as energy), do 1-2 training units which are about (5-10 min), and then raising it every weekend for another training unit to 60 min max a day.

    Good luck.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy View Post
    Yes, there is, if he wants to get "gains".

    What is your kcal requirement for one day? Are you giving your organism enough? (you should have calculated it, if you're not then stop training because it's going to be useless and you'll build "low quality muscles" which are mostly just pumped water)
    Are you training strictly for Muscle Mass?

    Aerobe Trainings are usefull, but if you're going to build a muscle mass then you shouldn't do 5 of them a week! That's like trying to be more skinnier but still eating 2-3 pizzas a day. 2 of them is enough.

    Try running for ~10-15 min a day for 2 days a week, it's more than enough if you're starting the training.

    If you're advanced then I recommend you traing at ~70-75% HR on an empty stomach 2-3 days a week at the mornings(why? becuse your organism after a night is empty of glikogen andit's going to use fat as energy), do 1-2 training units which are about (5-10 min), and then raising it every weekend for another training unit to 60 min max a day.

    Good luck.
    I don't think he's training for Mr. Olympia anytime soon or to even compete on a local level, so there is not much to worry about.

    Lifting and then running on a completely different day won't have much of an effect.


    If you still want to get some running in while at the sametime put on some serious lean mass i suggest high intensity interval running.

    Basically sprint for 60 seconds, job for 30, repeat 5 times.

    If you look at someone like Usian Bolt you can bet most of the stuff he does is full on sprints supplemented with weight lifting. If you look at a marathon runner... they're like a bag of bones.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Sup3rvillain View Post
    Basically sprint for 60 seconds, job for 30, repeat 5 times.
    That's the training to lower body fat. This is not a proper aerobic training.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sup3rvillain View Post
    I don't think he's training for Mr. Olympia anytime soon or to even compete on a local level, so there is not much to worry about.
    If we wants to get more body mass then it's a problem actually, because if he's going to do 5 times a week aerobic training then he's going to lose too much of that mass.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sup3rvillain View Post
    Lifting and then running on a completely different day won't have much of an effect.
    What's the point of working out and then going running or vice versa, he would just over train his body and probably get stagnation. So there's no other way than doing it on separated days.

    We both can try to help him as much as he needs us. :-)

    As I stated above, 2 times is alright.
    Last edited by Eazy; 2014-09-16 at 07:14 PM.

  6. #6
    3 miles per day, even on lifting days is not going to impact your muscle gain in any noticeable way. If you are some top tier athlete trying to squeak out a 1% performance boost, it could theoretically affect it.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy View Post
    That's the training to lower body fat. This is not a proper aerobic training.



    If we wants to get more body mass then it's a problem actually, because if he's going to do 5 times a week aerobic training then he's going to lose too much of that mass.


    What's the point of working out and then going running or vice versa, he would just over train his body and probably get stagnation. So there's no other way than doing it on separated days.

    We both can try to help him as much as he needs us. :-)

    As I stated above, 2 times is alright.
    Sorry but your wrong. Running seperated from training is actually beneficial as long as it is not overdone. Doing any kind of cardio increases your intra-set recovery meaning your body faster recovers during sets to perform better for the next, which can help increase volume lifted. While one might see a decrease in performance at the start as a result of increased work doing the week, during time it will increase. High intensity interval has also shown to increase muscle protein synthesis and myofibrillar protein synthesis

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Labze View Post
    Sorry but your wrong.
    *You're
    Quote Originally Posted by Labze View Post
    Running seperated from training is actually beneficial as long as it is not overdone.
    Running 4-7 times a week is overdoing if you're trying to get mass.

    Quote Originally Posted by Labze View Post
    Doing any kind of cardio increases your intra-set recovery meaning your body faster recovers during sets to perform better for the next
    You can easily over train your body. It's not like you body can take everything, you cannot really give it too much. Just because you worked hard it doesn't mean your next work out will be harder and harder, you'll probably get contusion or heart attack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Labze View Post
    While one might see a decrease in performance at the start as a result of increased work doing the week, during time it will increase.
    Aerobic training are mostly for(but not always it depends how are you doing them):
    -reducing body fat,
    -reducing fat and muscles, getting more skinner
    -increasing capacity and oxygenate organism, (the best option for OP, because they last about ~15 minutes, so they're in the "aerobic zone", while your organism is getting energy mostly from carbohydrates),
    -increasing your intensity, with intervals(exercising with different pulses, he shouldn't do them at the days when he's training because they're very exhausting for organism, even 20 min or intervals are comparable in a level of intensity with 60 min of "normal aerobic training"),
    Quote Originally Posted by Labze View Post
    High intensity interval has also shown to increase muscle protein synthesis and myofibrillar protein synthesis
    That's completely true, but 2 times a week should be max for someone who's trying to get muscle mass, too many of intervals can cause serious problem with health(if you want to do them properly you have to get 85% HRmax at start and then go down to 60%HRmax, the amounts of contraction of heart muscles in the intervals combined with the training is very dangerous, we're trying to cross the lactate treshold where we're going from oxidative phase(which I called aerobic zone) to anaerobic phase. Re-synthesis of ATP is available only if muscles have constant supply of oxygen), and they shouldn't be trained at the same days when OP is working out.
    Last edited by Eazy; 2014-09-16 at 11:37 PM.

  9. #9
    still confused. I'm drinking a protein shake after every training session even though it's only cardio. I'm thinking it may help abit to avoid loss of gain?

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy View Post
    *You're

    Running 4-7 times a week is overdoing if you're trying to get mass.


    You can easily over train your body. It's not like you body can take everything, you cannot really give it too much. Just because you worked hard it doesn't mean your next work out will be harder and harder, you'll probably get contusion or heart attack.

    Aerobic training are mostly for(but not always it depends how are you doing them):
    -reducing body fat,
    -reducing fat and muscles, getting more skinner
    -increasing capacity and oxygenate organism, (the best option for OP, because they last about ~15 minutes, so they're in the "aerobic zone", while your organism is getting energy mostly from carbohydrates),
    -increasing your intensity, with intervals(exercising with different pulses, he shouldn't do them at the days when he's training because they're very exhausting for organism, even 20 min or intervals are comparable in a level of intensity with 60 min of "normal aerobic training"),

    That's completely true, but 2 times a week should be max for someone who's trying to get muscle mass, too many of intervals can cause serious problem with health(if you want to do them properly you have to get 85% HRmax at start and then go down to 60%HRmax, the amounts of contraction of heart muscles in the intervals combined with the training is very dangerous, we're trying to cross the lactate treshold where we're going from oxidative phase(which I called aerobic zone) to anaerobic phase. Re-synthesis of ATP is available only if muscles have constant supply of oxygen), and they shouldn't be trained at the same days when OP is working out.
    Firstly, why do you even mention 4-7 times a week? The OP suggest lifting 3 days and running 3 days, hardly an amount that is cause for concern.

    Secondly, no you cannot easily overtrain your body. This is a common misconception. Your body is incredible in adapting, as long as you do not start running 50 kilometers a day while working out for several hours you will be fine. I am sure his body will tell him during the initial start of his regimen if he is doing too much.

    Aerobic training has many benefits, but you put it way too boxed.

    - reducing body fat: You can't say it like this. Aerobic training increases energy expenditure. If his diet accounts for this and still eats in a surplus it will not reduce body fat.

    - reducing fat and muscles, getting more skinner: Exactly as above. Muscle size will not be affected as a result of running.


    - increasing capacity and oxygenate organism, (the best option for OP, because they last about ~15 minutes, so they're in the "aerobic zone", while your organism is getting energy mostly from carbohydrates): Firstly, since you was so kind to correct my simple spelling mistake outside of my native language, let me correct you. There is nothing called oxygenate organism. There is something called oxidation which is a metabolic proces.

    Secondly i have no idea what you are trying to say in the parentheses, but it sounds wrong. There is no need to differentiate which molecule is used as a primary fuel. At the end of the day, your body do not differentiate between what macro molecules that has been used for exercise and it is just the daily energy balance that counts.

    - increasing your intensity, with intervals(exercising with different pulses, he shouldn't do them at the days when he's training because they're very exhausting for organism, even 20 min or intervals are comparable in a level of intensity with 60 min of "normal aerobic training"): I think i get what you are trying to say, but it really makes little sense. Yes HIIT training are more effective than LISS time wise if we look at energy expenditure but both have their strengths.

    I won't attempt to answer your last point, it is so blatantly useless to mention and even consider.

    Quote Originally Posted by kreebs View Post
    still confused. I'm drinking a protein shake after every training session even though it's only cardio. I'm thinking it may help abit to avoid loss of gain?
    The point is you will be fine if you chose to run seperately from lifting. As long as you eat in a caloric surplus you should not worry about losing gains. Drinking a shake after training is a fine way to be safe, but no way neccesary.

  11. #11
    Thanks, alot.

  12. #12
    Cardio will NOT hurt your gains as long as your metabolic input is still more than your output. If you are trying to cut then watch your carbohydrate intake and get most of your caloric intake from protein sources.

    It's still thermodynamics, in vs out.

  13. #13
    I'm sure you are doing everything right, though I'd suggest you to bring some variety and include at least one day of swimming, it will make all your muscles work, thus making the whole process more effective, becides you'll definitely enjoy that, while your body does a hard job you will feel a kind of relaxed. Plus if we speak about effectiveness you might calculate your target heart rate zone, and take the most out of training, if you have never done that before, go to Beets BLU site for help, for example

  14. #14
    3 days of running shouldn't be an issue.

    At my fittest I was doing two 5k runs per week and one day of sprints, lifting 5-6 days per week. I hate running, but I wanted to do it for that overall fitness goal. I made pretty decent gains in the gym while also cutting fat thanks to the running (though I'd say it was mostly thanks to the sprints and diet).

  15. #15
    3 days of running isn't an issue.....especially if you're lifting and eating right on top of that. I lift 3 times a week and cycle on my bike 2x a week 10-15 miles and see no losses. My lifts have still increased, and my legs have gotten much bigger/ripped. You're fine, and it's great that you're doing that.

  16. #16
    Exchange your longer mileage runs for interval sprints (1-2 miles), and hill sprints. Save you time, your heart will get a better workout, and you won't burn as much calories. On the other side, keep lifting hard and eating as much as you can of the right stuff.
    LFGdating
    Currently playing: D3, SC2, and wait for it ... Red Alert 3. (And possibly some Goldeneye here or there.)

  17. #17
    I run 5-12 miles 3-4 times a week.
    I also lift weights 3-4 times a week.
    Some days I run and lift weights yet I will have 3-4 hours of rest and recovery between the two.
    Most weight lifters decry running for reasons of arrogance rather than ignorance.
    I would encourage you to run, especially when you mention that you enjoy it.

    I would also strongly encourage you to do some cardio training on a heavy bag. Here you are not concerned so much about form as you are with staying in a high intensity, high heart rate mode to promote fat burning and body density.

    A progression video from last summer. I have plans for an update come winter.


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