Macros In TOR - Thoughts and Discussions

[jearle]

This thread is to discuss Macro’s in SW:TOR and the possible systems/rulesets they could implement to deal with this functionality.

We currently are under the impression that macros will NOT be a feature at launch and they are listed as a post launch addition. When macros are finally added to TOR, how will they work? What “system” or rules will be in place regarding the use of macros?

Macro Systems- There are many out there but talking about the main 2 that people may have played with will show how varied the systems can be.

Rifts Macro System - Unrestricted and simple It allows you to simply make a list of abilitys, whether they're on the Global CD or not, and irregardless of resource consumption. Then you just spam the macro and the list acts as a priority system, trying to execute the moves higher up, and if not trying the next one down the list. This system works well if the game has a great deal of ability's

WoW’s Macro System - This macro system is fairly strict. You can combine one move with another, only if one of them is completely off the Global CD. "Cast sequences" can be made, but require some script text, and can be difficult for novices to devise. Modifier macros utilizing ALT/SHIFT/Ctrl ect can also be used to trigger abilities.

Mouseover macros and targeting functionality are a common feature and should be apparent in any system they implement.

What is your opinion on the matter of macros? Are there other games and macro systems that you enjoyed that you would like to see?

IMO, the macro system in Rift was over the top. Entire rotations could be macro’d into single buttons. This worked for the game because as anyone knows who played it, you could have an enormous amount of abilities and it helped streamline that issue. Personally I did not like this macro system because with some classes discussion of “Who has the better macro” was a big topic because it showed in your final results.

The WoW macro system although strict is very good in my opinion. It gives you the basic functionality of macros which help with quality of life issues, but it does not dumb the game down to a single button.

I think TOR gives you just enough abilities that a stricter macro ruleset would work better for the game. We will see how this pans out after release when people are playing with specs and such. I personally like having to hit reactive abilities and be more engaged in combat and healing when I play, and a loose system such as Rifts trivializes this.

[Sparkconater]

I never "really" did much with macros, and chose to allow addons to do a lot of these tasks for healing. As long as there is a fairly detailed explanation of the system, I'm fine with whatever they put through. I've seen some of the things WoW could do in Macros... so I would like to see something similar to that... though maybe in a system similar to FFXII, which allows for very specific input and output commands.

[Jinna]

Considering how there's no white damage in SW:TOR, then the correct and timely use of abilities becomes paramount. If you have a rift system, then you remove thought out of dpsing completely. You can then go to a forum and get a copy of the best dps talents, gear weights and macros and then skill becomes less and less important.

But yes, Rift had too many abilities in the class rotations.

I think WoW's macro system is far superior, where you knew that one player cannot have an advantage over another because they have better macro. You know that when someone uses an ability, it's because they chose to use it. The VAST majority of WoW's macros were quality of life macros, for swapping gear, spec, selling junk, moving UI elements, stacking multiple [mod:alt] abilities onto one button for ease of use, or for putting mouseover, conditions etc into play.

Just looking at the macro section of MMO-Champion's forums and you can see how much macros added to the game without breaking it.

It may be wishful thinking, but it would be great if BW went to Blizz and asked nicely if they could borrow the entire macro system from them, all the APIs etc. But it's not likely.

EDIT: Does anyone know if the WoW API is fully open source?

[Zarasthura]

I've been healing in MMOs since 2004. Shillien Elder in L2, Priest in RO, etc.

I didn't discover that I could heal with mouseover macros until sometime during Naxx 80 I installed xperl and used a chain heal and cleanse macro macro in conjunction. It truly improved my quality of life, and I never once turned back. I even used mouseover macros for debuffs and damaging spells as Elemental. For me it's absolutely terrible to try and heal a large group using the old "click target, click heal" method. I don't want to imagine doing competitive PvP as a healer when I'm wasting valuable time clicking players, healing them, then clicking myself, and healing myself, then clicking an enemy player, then clicking my debuff.

With macros in general, I used them for a variety of things. Things like "Passing the orb to X" in SSC, "+++++++ BOSS ---------" for Thaddeus, "GET WRECKED!!11one" whenever I popped a cooldown in pvp were always in my list of macros. Hell I even had macros that would play certain in game music from the .ogg files. And then there were the class macros that let you stack abilities together (using shift, ctrl and alt), making them much easier to access.

I had really wished Bioware had included the ability to make macros. It's going to be rough for those of us who are used to having a macro at our fingertips.

[Belial]

Considering how there's no white damage in SW:TOR, then the correct and timely use of abilities becomes paramount. If you have a rift system, then you remove thought out of dpsing completely. You can then go to a forum and get a copy of the best dps talents, gear weights and macros and then skill becomes less and less important.

But yes, Rift had too many abilities in the class rotations.

I think WoW's macro system is far superior, where you knew that one player cannot have an advantage over another because they have better macro. You know that when someone uses an ability, it's because they chose to use it. The VAST majority of WoW's macros were quality of life macros, for swapping gear, spec, selling junk, moving UI elements, stacking multiple [mod:alt] abilities onto one button for ease of use, or for putting mouseover, conditions etc into play.

Just looking at the macro section of MMO-Champion's forums and you can see how much macros added to the game without breaking it.

It may be wishful thinking, but it would be great if BW went to Blizz and asked nicely if they could borrow the entire macro system from them, all the APIs etc. But it's not likely.

EDIT: Does anyone know if the WoW API is fully open source?

I fully agree with you on the WoW macro system part. Personally hope BW will make that kind of system. I'm just happy that I own a G15 and a Razer Naga So I at least from the start can make some macros.

[Puremallace]

I do not see the big issue with Rifts system. It allows you to macro instant cast ability into on one button instead of having a screen cluttered with a million abilities. It allows for mouse over for healers and does not have cast sequence macros for casters.

Also people who macro everything to one button are the ones who get confused when they are power starved. Not sure what this fascination is with clicking buttons when anyone with a G15 or Naga automatically can rofl you in pvp.

[Jinna]

I played a rogue on Rift, and while enjoyable, it really killed any challenge to have all the reaction abilities (those triggered by dodging or parrying, or as a result of scoring a crit) simply put in the macro, then they will always trigger when available.

[Cakka]

I played a rogue on Rift, and while enjoyable, it really killed any challenge to have all the reaction abilities (those triggered by dodging or parrying, or as a result of scoring a crit) simply put in the macro, then they will always trigger when available.

I agree, for me the implementation of a Rift type macro system would mean I wouldn't be playing TOR. It removed any resemblence of skill from playing classes with mainly instant abilities. I'm sure someone will now say that you don't have to use the macro system, but to me thats like saying WoW has perma death because you can just delete your character after the first time you die.

[Puremallace]

I agree, for me the implementation of a Rift type macro system would mean I wouldn't be playing TOR. It removed any resemblence of skill from playing classes with mainly instant abilities. I'm sure someone will now say that you don't have to use the macro system, but to me thats like saying WoW has perma death because you can just delete your character after the first time you die.

I guess, but what is your definition of skill. If I bind a proc on a button on a g15 and you as a clicked has to click that button then I am automatically better then you and can land the attack first every single time.

I saw it in Aion all the time. Whoever had the better comp set-up won the fight. That game was all about reactionary moves to counter stuff in pvp and it did not do a lick of good.

It is sad, but that is where we seem to be at in this stage of mmorpg development.

[warjin]

I do enjoy WoW macro system, I really hope they do add a version of it in Swtor.

[Torethyr]

I'm in favor of a very strict macro system like in WoW and I would like to see something similar implemented in TOR. Macros in my mind should not be used for automation but for convenience. They shouldn't do your priority rotation for you but a system should be in place that lets you condense Med Kits and Stims and Adrenals into one button with modifiers.

I used macros heavily on my Enh Shaman to the great effect of saving action bar space and affording me more visibility since I could now have a smaller UI/less bars. The only real combat advantage the WoW system affords you is the ability to string together abilities and items off the GCD--a fair and smart system if you ask me.

[jearle]

I do not see the big issue with Rifts system. It allows you to macro instant cast ability into on one button instead of having a screen cluttered with a million abilities. It allows for mouse over for healers and does not have cast sequence macros for casters.

Also people who macro everything to one button are the ones who get confused when they are power starved. Not sure what this fascination is with clicking buttons when anyone with a G15 or Naga automatically can rofl you in pvp.

G15 and Naga macro usage is another discussion altogether. Rifts macro system most would agree is far far to easy to string abilities together. I understand why it was designed that way, but it still does not mean it will work in every game.

I agree with most that the strictness of the WoW macro system would play well in TOR, and hopefully they will consider this when implementing it.

[tripplebooya]

I was happy with wows macro system, and fully support it in TOR. I Judy hate when you can dumb down to many abilities to one button. As long as that can't happen macro away

[Puremallace]

G15 and Naga macro usage is another discussion altogether. Rifts macro system most would agree is far far to easy to string abilities together. I understand why it was designed that way, but it still does not mean it will work in every game.

I agree with most that the strictness of the WoW macro system would play well in TOR, and hopefully they will consider this when implementing it.

I am just not a fan of that WoW UI where you have three rows all full of buttons. It just looks so ungodly cluttered to me. In my view there is no harm putting atleast 2-3 instant cast on the same macro and then having a finisher macro for 1-2 abilities. Back in WoW I had my rotation on my pally and there were so many useless buttons for tanking that never got touched.

I know one thing that is just brutal and that is /castsequence macros. That stuff is confusing as hell on how it works.

[jearle]

I know one thing that is just brutal and that is /castsequence macros. That stuff is confusing as hell on how it works.

I agree there, castsequence macros in WoW were a pain for sure.

Maybe we could see a nice middle ground between the 2 systems.