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  1. #101
    In my experience with a great many fishymancers is the difficulty curve goes in reverse.

    Normal can be a total pain in the ass quite frankly. Diablo can be particularly bad. His fire nova can 1 shot your whole army. However as the leves pass and you start getting more points into the summon tree and particularly get your summon resist to around 50% (or stop at 17 points after gear) you can just walk over anything.

    Go and revive a load of the mobs from the durance of hate that have crushing blow. Bosses die easy then.

    I should point out I've only ever played Diablo 2 online twice. My whole 8 year on and off career has been single player, self found, usually untwinked, mod free play.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by tomhyde1986 View Post
    Go and revive a load of the mobs from the durance of hate that have crushing blow. Bosses die easy then.
    Yes, that's the only option, but how many new players even know what Urdars are, let alone that they have CB and are essential to any minion army trying to kill anything other than quill rats.

    Also, getting CB on your nec to auto attack bosses to death? Come on, you're not even trying to make sense now. Hitting Hell Diablo with any success would take like 300 dex on a necro unless you're talking about swapping out your ENTIRE gear set to the point where I wonder why you have to worry about how you kill things because clearly you're not a newly made naked necro.

    Also, I stated earlier, summons get ranked up in nightmare and hell by default. Necros get stronger as the game goes on, hell will be a lot easier to manage than nightmare or normal. As the previous post describes, ALL of the end bosses in normal are going to instantly one shot your entire army and you're in for a lot of pain trying to kill them. The same will be mostly true in nightmare, just not quite as bad. By hell your minions can pretty much tank anything except for specific unfortunate situations, but good luck getting there naked. This is my point.


    A sorc on the other hand relies on absolutely nothing and comes with teleport. I'm not trying to tell anyone how they should play the game, if you want to make a necro as your first character by all means go for it, but a sorceress will always be the easiest.
    Last edited by Lysah; 2011-11-08 at 10:23 PM.
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  3. #103
    Scarab Lord zealous's Avatar
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    When in doubt, just make a Lightning Fury 'zon and avoid mobs with lightning resist =) Stuff dies simply if you look sternly at it.
    - Looks like they took him to some bolt hole in the Wounded Coast.
    - I wonder if it's near the Injured Cliffs? Or the Limping Hills? Massive-Head-Trauma-Bay? No? Just me? *sigh* Forget I said anything.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    Also, getting CB on your nec to auto attack bosses to death? Come on, you're not even trying to make sense now. Hitting Hell Diablo with any success would take like 300 dex on a necro unless you're talking about swapping out your ENTIRE gear set to the point where I wonder why you have to worry about how you kill things because clearly you're not a newly made naked necro.
    Wait what? That is not true at all. You clearly haven't tried it yourself. You only need to swap in Goblin Toes and maybe a weapon? Hardly your entire gear set is it now? Which you can safely do because well you won't take damage anyway. Don't bash things if you clearly never tried it before.

    On top of that, I can load a Necro with 600-700 MF and on Sorc you run usually with a lot less or your killing power goes down dramatically. Sure the Necro kills slower, but the way higher amount of MF partially makes up for that. I realize your a Sorc fan but saying a Sorc is easiest is just not true. You clearly have never played a high level Fishymancer. You practically need to do nothing. I've played both an MF Sorc and MF Necro and I would never ever go back to a Sorc. Besides Teleport is no real argument, cause almost everyone has access to teleport.
    Last edited by Cairhiin; 2011-11-09 at 07:22 AM.

  5. #105
    I don't have to try it, even melee characters have a hard time hitting hell diablo and up if they aren't stacking dex/AR or are very well geared.

    I'm not a sorc fan, not at all. I've always been an assassin in D2. I've also played plenty of summoners, both as new characters and geared, and I can safely say that the geared characters steamroll everything and the new characters can't get past the den of evil unless they go afk for hours.
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  6. #106
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    Depends on what you call geared my first character was a necro summoner, and while I'm not in the position to talk about boss fights in hell (only my wind druid has been played past act1 hell so far, haven't attempted to do so on the others though), saying that is a stretch. Atm it's the easiest character to kill nightmare bosses on, not necessarily the fastest and pretty much restricted to p1 due to the limitations of basing your killing on corpses, but as of now it's the fastest character to kill nightmare baal with, considering I actually have a bit of mf on this .

    As I remember when I killed the bosses on normal it was usually continuously recasting clay golem when it went down, while my merc withered the boss down, having decrep on the boss.
    I dont speculate in revives and pretty much take what's available, up to nightmare act 5 baal I didn't have revives either, so definitely doable with what is in essence an untwinked character since it was my first and that 90% of my items has been found by that one anyway.

    I should really go attempt to play through hell so I actually get to the tricky parts

    ---------- Post added 2011-11-09 at 12:00 PM ----------

    Hmm I kinda forgot about it, but the crushing blow setup is based on having a socketed phase blade with Eth runes. On my own necromancer that would give me 56-57% chance to hit hell diablo and 55% chance to hit hell baal.
    Last edited by Kahnugo; 2011-11-09 at 10:01 AM.

  7. #107
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    Summoner Necro always seemed kind of dull/pointless to me. So much effort spent ressing the correct mobs for difficult encounters, so much time spent summoning and re-summoning, waiting for your weak-ass (at least before hell) minions to clear the place.

    I feel like pretty much every other build in the game is more interesting than that, even Trap/Dancer Assassin (even though I dislike trap builds).

    Summoner Necro was probably one of my first D2 chars on solo, and I haven't touched the build since, while all of my other preferred builds have gotten a spin or two once in a while.

    And as to the Summoner's efficiency, unless you're playing with pre-collected items put in through an editor, or with traded/ground items on the ladder, playing a Summoner in solo Hell (especially players 4+) is a freaking pain in the ass. Even with their increased stats, your minions take an eternity to kill things. The only solution being is to res mobs with Crushing Blow or Open Wounds, but even I know of only type of each in the whole game.
    - Looks like they took him to some bolt hole in the Wounded Coast.
    - I wonder if it's near the Injured Cliffs? Or the Limping Hills? Massive-Head-Trauma-Bay? No? Just me? *sigh* Forget I said anything.

  8. #108
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    It's most definitely dull if you insist on playing higher player settings, it doesn't work well like that since what's killing multiple targets is corpse explosion mainly.

    About revives, so far I've decided that unless I by chance get the runes for an enigma, I'm not gonna bother much about getting revives I care about keeping, as you tend to lose them often at doors, bends and other environmental "challenges". The lack of bond between the revives and the necro is the main drawback of the summoner imo, would be much nicer if you actually had them for the full duration without teleport or carefully nursing them around every bump and tree on the way :P or using town portals god forbid.

    But again I'll have to see how it turns out in the later acts of hell.

  9. #109
    Scarab Lord zealous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kahnugo View Post
    But again I'll have to see how it turns out in the later acts of hell.
    It's giant pain in the ass, because w/o powerful revives most encounters take an eternity and a half.
    - Looks like they took him to some bolt hole in the Wounded Coast.
    - I wonder if it's near the Injured Cliffs? Or the Limping Hills? Massive-Head-Trauma-Bay? No? Just me? *sigh* Forget I said anything.

  10. #110
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    Got my exam done yesterday so on it now while I dont have much to compare with the journey to act 5 was a breeze I barely ever lost a skeleton and things didn't take too long really, actually felt like diablo went down faster than mephisto. I expect act 5 to be more challenging to my temper, not looking forward to the tomb vipers in nihlathak's hall, poison is a real killer to your skeletons and those bastards wrecked havoc already in nightmare, and gloams will probably cause me to slow down since I have to be really careful due to low resistances.
    The phys immune frenzy bulls could prove to be an annoyance as well.

    My setup gives me +1 necro skill + 2 summoning and +2 raise skeleton, -20 fire and poison resist and 0-5 cold and lightning, 750 hp 400 mana, 250% mf, cannot be frozen and +10 replenish life.

  11. #111
    I've started a fishymancer as well (25 atm). As it is fun to play him in the open field, it's a pain to play in chokes and narrow halls and so on. And the best DPS is by far the merc
    Skellis are like zerglings, they are great when they get a surround on the mobs, but suck on 1on1 combat.

  12. #112
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    Patriached mine now , Baal was a pushover though it did take a little while to get him down, I'm sure if I get some crushing blow on my merc it's going to be faster. Clay golem and decrep makes baal go mental blank it seems.

    Worst part was when I entered the last hall (forgot the name, the one with nihlathak) the first time I had to restart the session as the entrance was camped by a group of poison claw vipers, they are unbeliveably nasty, wiped my entire army and merc within 2 curse casts and a jaw drop worked when I got in a bit more prepared. Gloams were annoying though I'm not sure how bad they actually were because somehow I managed not to get hit at all.

    I'd still say without being able to tell 100% due to this being the first patriach/matriach that it's the easiest one to complete the game with solo without twinking

  13. #113
    How many times did you die?
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  14. #114
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    I didn't die

  15. #115
    Herald of the Titans starkey's Avatar
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    Im 88 atm on my necromancer only time ive died was rescuing Anya in Hell ran into Conviction Souls i didnt even have a chance to Dim vision them, im playing ladder and pretty much solo played my way through cause most public games are bot games or advertising games, hardly anyone wants to do a walkthrough so i decided too just make my own public games for more exp but when it come to act bosses id play it private for the drops.
    Found stuff all too lol so im not rich but have made my own basic runewords to get me through the game, i think my best find so far was a 27% maras ammy from a basket in act 3 hell

    I have made Runeword - Treachery Armor for my Merc he hardly dies and Insight a crappy one until i get a eth CV or an ETH Toll Reapers no andys helm or willuems helm yet only time he will die is against the council in hell or poison guy when fighting baals 2nd wave but life tap curse usually fixes that if im fast enough
    Last edited by starkey; 2011-11-11 at 08:42 PM.
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  16. #116
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    As a summoner your merc hardly need any life leach, mine has 5% from a Boneflesh I think it's called. Your skeletons and revives usually do a fine job tanking everything. Anything that's not poison, phys immune, extra strong and or with might/fana aura seldom manage to kill even a single skeleton, your revives are almost immortal to anything but their own stupidity.
    If my merc seems to be going down I tend to just retreat I lost my mercenary twice from act1 through act5 hell.

  17. #117
    Herald of the Titans starkey's Avatar
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    i just need a spirit shield and im sorted for resists im nearly max in hell just need to boost my lightning that's whats hurting me atm pindle's garden is where i seem to be finding socket gear just stuff i dont need lol it's annoying
    You are lying! I never hit you! YOU ARE TEARING ME APART, LISA!

  18. #118
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    Most of the stuff that gets past your army seems to be lightning or a lighting physical hybrid. You dont really need max resistances though, just enough so you're not getting roasted by a single hit or two.

    My favorite strategy is using the clay golem as bait, always recasting it ahead of me when progressing. With some practice you should be able to get gloams and other ranged piecers to fire in other directions 99% of the time. Should probably consider to incorporate the crowd control curses a bit more as well, tend to never use them since your clay golem does the trick nicely on most pulls.

  19. #119
    Herald of the Titans starkey's Avatar
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    I use Attract alot specially when im Grand Charm hunting in Flayer Jungle so funny to see 1 mob get swamped by 20 odd flayers and then boom corpse explosion lol
    You are lying! I never hit you! YOU ARE TEARING ME APART, LISA!

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    Barbarians are extremely gear dependent, you're in for a lot of pain. Sorceress is always the easiest first class.
    That's true but sorceresses at the start of a new ladder is just way to mainstream :P
    And well a WW-barb with full IK some rare rings/amu doesn't cost that much, with a bit of luck you can get all of this with your hell hellforge quest 11 different runes there 3 of them which are easily worth a whole IK set.

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