Thread: Rift Raiding?

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  1. #1

    Rift Raiding?

    How is rift's raiding environment compared to WoW?

    1. Difficulty?
    2. Do I have to raid with a core guild/member?
    3. How are the loot affecting the character's look?
    4. Do I have to be giving my personal life out like I did before for WoW for the past 6 years just to raid everyday?

    A little bit about myself, I play WoW since Vanilla and been hardcore raiding 5-6 days 4-5hours/per day since BC until recently. It's just the way people raid on TW servers so yea it might sounds a lot for some of you guys. The reason I quit WoW is mainly because the game is getting repetitive, since I raid only for the LOOK of my char, and doing 5-6 days 4-5 hours/per day is a lot for me. I want to get out there and hang out with some of my friends, but yet have something to play when I get home. If the raiding is about the same as WoW, just to raid with a core guild and a set schedule then I probably won't even bother trying.

  2. #2
    The Patient Halym's Avatar
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    Sounds like you want "PUG raiding" in RIFT.

    True PUG raiding doesn't happen often in RIFT. The game is very much still in its infancy.

  3. #3
    Role-player Telcular's Avatar
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    The raid difficutly varies from Raid rifts (very pugable, happends several times a day, no lockout) to Tier 2 raids (currently the hardest ones in rift), which i'd say you'd need a good guild to make progress in.
    You don't have to be in a guild to raid, as i said, raid rifts could be done in pugs if you so want, and so could the 10man raids (Drowned Halls & Gilded Prophecy) , however those 2 will need ad more coordinated group.
    It usually dosen't matter how they look since most people wear a costume item over it, there is however some unique looks (like 2handed cleric & warrior showel from Gilded Prophecy).
    And no, you do not have to raid everyday unless you want to raid hardcore, I have recently joined a new guild, and the 10man group i was in cleared both 10man instances in almost 2 hours (1-2 wipes in total) , and we have a 20man raid tomorrow (sunday).
    We make progress, but not hardcore.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Halym View Post
    Sounds like you want "PUG raiding" in RIFT.

    True PUG raiding doesn't happen often in RIFT. The game is very much still in its infancy.
    This might be a Wolfsbane thing, but I see pug raids for all the T1 content. Hell I got my first Greenscale kill in a guild that pug'd some spots. Hammerknell is still not very pug friendly at all and most people do not seem to mind. I guess it is because there are so many paths to raid gear in Rift people can get shiny purples without having to be hardcore.

    Ember Isle is adding more of this from the rep vendors that have raid helms for the cost of inscribed sourcestones. Then you have the crafting patterns that are raid quality. Also the new master mode versions of dungeon..I got two upgrades myself in one run of Master Mode DD
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Telcular View Post
    The raid difficutly varies from Raid rifts (very pugable, happends several times a day, no lockout) to Tier 2 raids (currently the hardest ones in rift), which i'd say you'd need a good guild to make progress in.
    You don't have to be in a guild to raid, as i said, raid rifts could be done in pugs if you so want, and so could the 10man raids (Drowned Halls & Gilded Prophecy) , however those 2 will need ad more coordinated group.
    It usually dosen't matter how they look since most people wear a costume item over it, there is however some unique looks (like 2handed cleric & warrior showel from Gilded Prophecy).
    And no, you do not have to raid everyday unless you want to raid hardcore, I have recently joined a new guild, and the 10man group i was in cleared both 10man instances in almost 2 hours (1-2 wipes in total) , and we have a 20man raid tomorrow (sunday).
    We make progress, but not hardcore.

    Is it hard to find a guild like what you've mentioned above in Rift compared in WoW? I mean 2 hours of raiding for 10 man doesn't sound bad at all. Is there any gear requirement or level requirement to even start raiding T1? I see some youtube video showing people doing pugs and killing Rifts around they don't seem to be all in level 50.

    Quote Originally Posted by Puremallace View Post
    This might be a Wolfsbane thing, but I see pug raids for all the T1 content. Hell I got my first Greenscale kill in a guild that pug'd some spots. Hammerknell is still not very pug friendly at all and most people do not seem to mind. I guess it is because there are so many paths to raid gear in Rift people can get shiny purples without having to be hardcore.

    Ember Isle is adding more of this from the rep vendors that have raid helms for the cost of inscribed sourcestones. Then you have the crafting patterns that are raid quality. Also the new master mode versions of dungeon..I got two upgrades myself in one run of Master Mode DD
    Can you tell me more about the master mode version of dungeons?

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by bigbadaboom View Post

    Can you tell me more about the master mode version of dungeons?
    The idea is pretty simple. Take your current expert mode instances add some much harder mechanics to the bosses, add a new boss and change the loot tables to be on par with the tier 1 raid gear.

    Like the first boss in Darkening Deeps on expert is basically tank and spank after you drop his adds. On Master Mode his AoE he drops stays on fire and he has to be kited around and requires much more to kill the guy. There is Darkening Deeps and soon to be Deep Strike Mines in 1.6 for master modes. It is just 5man content to help supplement raiding and gearing new people.
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  7. #7
    Role-player Telcular's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigbadaboom View Post
    Is it hard to find a guild like what you've mentioned above in Rift compared in WoW? I mean 2 hours of raiding for 10 man doesn't sound bad at all. Is there any gear requirement or level requirement to even start raiding T1? I see some youtube video showing people doing pugs and killing Rifts around they don't seem to be all in level 50.
    I didn't have any problem at all in finding it, someone was looking for Clerics/warriors for their raiding guild, i said goodbye to the one i was in (social) and joined theres, the next day i was in and killed first boss in River of souls (20man) and 3 foci (mini bosses) , and the next week i did the 2 10mans.
    Might have been lucky with the group i got to them, but aslong people are willing to learn and gear, it's piece a cake.
    To Enter raid instances you will need level 50 and Enough hit/focus (or toughness for tanks), it's 200 for T1 raids (220 for 100% hit), and it's rather easy to get if you do Expert instacnes (heroics basickly).
    The Raid rifts however you can do at whatever level you like, if you're not 50 however you will either die very fast to anything, or miss most/everything you do, but you can join in and get possible future loot if nobody else wants it (woulden't be suprised if PuGs would get mad about non-50s joining though)

  8. #8
    The Patient Weiland's Avatar
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    My guild usually hosts 10 and 20 man content runs on our off nights with the exception of HK. Tho when we bring pugs they are there for the Marks only (similar to the valor or w/e they are handing out in wow now) as they would not normally see the content let alone clear it in a timely manner. We usually burn through GSB ROS DH and GP in a 4 hour session.
    We don't boot anyone during a raid unless they are being total tools.

    We do however reform the raid after we complete a raid in order to get more people involved in the content, we've been known to go for Conqueror achievements too so they won't be walking out w/just boss kills but "Hardmode" boss kill achievements to boot.

    Our raid week consists of 3 nights a week for a total of 12hrs a week. Raid rifts can be done but the gear that drops from them won't be usable till you reach lvl 50.

    We are currently only accepting applications for people that are HK ready, but that doesn't mean that we won't take new applicants into older 10/20man content in order to gear them up and once they reach the proper hit/toughness/focus if they are interested in current content the can be reviewed and put into rotation for HK.

    We aggressively rotate people in and out for our current HK farm content for a few reason

    Better gear distribution
    Better Mark distribution
    And
    EVERY1 feels like they are part of the guild

    Here are a couple of youtubes of us running content with a few pugs

    Lucidium-Vs-Isskal
    Lucidium-Vs-Hydriss
    and you can find more on my channel
    Rift Raving Rogue Presents..
    Last edited by Weiland; 2011-10-29 at 11:11 PM.

  9. #9
    The truth about Rift raiding is simple.

    Its new bosses that you dont know therefor its gonna be fun.

    No, its not easy to join a guild thats clearing most if not all of T2 raids (Hammerknell if you wanna know the name, think of it as Firelands), its almost impossible because of gear requirements.

    Rift has a retarded hit rating system that makes it impossible for the newly joined to the game player to join a T2 raid without going with a full farm of the previous content.

    In other words to make you understand.

    A T1 Raid in Rift (think BWD and BoT) require 223 Hit rating (to never see a dodge or a resist), which you can achieve very quickly if you learn the game, a couple of crafts, some dungeon (Heroic dungeons) and some luck, maybe a few enchants and you can be ready in a matter of hours, my alt was ready in 5 hours to join a raid with 230 hit rating.

    The thing is, the game is certainly at T2 raids (Firelands to make you understand), which require 323 Hit rating, now with every single enchant and gear only from Heroics (They are called Expert Dungeons in Rift)that number is barely reachable, but the problem is, even if you reach it, you dont have a proper weapon to pull the appropriate DPS to be of any real use (Warrior and Rogue class scale with the Weapon Damage, Mages and Clerics scale from their overall gear and their Spell Power mostly).

    Now the last boss of the instance, has an aura that gives you -130 Hit rating, making you require a total of 453 hit rating in order to never miss, thats impossible for everyone that hasnt raided that place a bit, has every hit enchant etc etc, this will get nerfed at some point but you get the point.

    Its still a great game, but thats its greater flaw right now.

    If you are used to how WoW works, and gearing up very fast to PuG Firelands, Rift isnt for you at its certain form, if you raided Vanilla and TBC and enjoyed it, you will love it, simple fact.
    Last edited by potis; 2011-10-30 at 12:29 AM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    Its still a great game, but thats its greater flaw right now.

    If you are used to how WoW works, and gearing up very fast to PuG Firelands, Rift isnt for you at its certain form, if you raided Vanilla and TBC and enjoyed it, you will love it, simple fact.
    Linear content is only a flaw if you must reach the end as fast as possible (something that WoW sadly taught us), besides it took me around two weeks to gear up my mage from getting to 50, 4 set crafted and rest drops / planar stuff, 224 focus.

    From what I experienced I do agree on the vanilla / TBC comment though.
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  11. #11
    Dreadlord Primalthirst's Avatar
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    There is no need to burn through all the content immediately, progressing at a reasonable rate is much healthier for the game.
    It took me a bit over a week back in March to go from fresh 50 to raiding entry level content. It would take a fair bit longer to get to Hammerknell level gear but that isn't really a problem. I like the fact that everyone needs to progress through old content to get to new content, if there is relevant content for people of all gear levels and everyone gets to see it eventually then there is no need to implement normal/heroic mode raids like in WoW.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by bigbadaboom View Post
    How is rift's raiding environment compared to WoW?

    1. Difficulty?
    2. Do I have to raid with a core guild/member?
    3. How are the loot affecting the character's look?
    4. Do I have to be giving my personal life out like I did before for WoW for the past 6 years just to raid everyday?

    A little bit about myself, I play WoW since Vanilla and been hardcore raiding 5-6 days 4-5hours/per day since BC until recently. It's just the way people raid on TW servers so yea it might sounds a lot for some of you guys. The reason I quit WoW is mainly because the game is getting repetitive, since I raid only for the LOOK of my char, and doing 5-6 days 4-5 hours/per day is a lot for me. I want to get out there and hang out with some of my friends, but yet have something to play when I get home. If the raiding is about the same as WoW, just to raid with a core guild and a set schedule then I probably won't even bother trying.
    1. Easiest of any major MMO I have played. I began playing MMOs back in AC/early EQ up to WOW and it's descendants.
    2. Tier 1 raid content is PUG'd commonly on most of the servers I have played on; 7 total. Due to the sparsity of the raid content progression in Rift happens rapidly.
    3. There is a wardrobe system similar to Everquest 2 or Lord of the Rings Online. One can be decked out in relics but appear as a level 1 character if they so choose.
    4. No. Rift's raids are very casual friendly. With 10man raids having separate zones & lockouts but awarding lateral gear to 20 man raids. 10 mans are literal, 40min-1hour affairs for all but the most incompetent. Often PUG'd. Also raid passable crafted items, open world currency bought items and very short upgrade cycle for tier 1 raid items are offered.

    20 man raids are shorter and less involved than WOW or EQ raids. There are no "hard mode" versions. Just one raid a week for about 1 or 2 hours. Most causal raid guilds I have browsed raid 3 hours a week.

    The bottom line is Rift raiding is very fun, but shorter and there is simply less of it than in other games.

    I would fully expect Rift raiding to follow the World of Warcraft model as it matures. That is the intention of Rift; it's not an MMO for people who wish to escape WOW, so to speak. It was intended to be an MMO for people that wanted a newer version of World of Warcraft.

    Or as one guild mate put it; Rift is not WOW 2.0, it's WOW 2k11.

    I enjoy that a lot, personally.


    One last tidbit; in Rift there are few iconic armor sets or even armor meant to be distinctive- a warrior can wear plate but appear as in full mage gear, for example. The armor sets often borrow the models of common gear as well. So coupled with the wardrobe system, one can craft an appearance unique to them without necessarily wearing Wrathful Vengeance of the Ice Crown Raider gear or somesuch.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Halym View Post
    Sounds like you want "PUG raiding" in RIFT.

    True PUG raiding doesn't happen often in RIFT. The game is very much still in its infancy.
    People PUG Greenscale and Gilded Prophecy. Not sure why I don't see River of Souls and Drowned Halls pugged more often.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by pacox View Post
    People PUG Greenscale and Gilded Prophecy. Not sure why I don't see River of Souls and Drowned Halls pugged more often.
    I don't know the reason why you don't see DH pugs. But on my server (Blightweald-EU) you see them from time to time.
    As for River of Souls. I think the reason is that there are a few mechanics that can easily get messed up in a pug like the following mechanics:
    Warmaster Galenir: Essence Transfer can easily be a problem if the person with the debuff reacts to late and heals the boss. If this happens to often you run into the enrage. With a pug you often don't have something like TS/vent/mumble and as such someone can easily mess up.
    Dark Focus: If the person with the debuff reacts to late he will blow up the raid.
    Herald: AoE hungry people can cause a double explosion or people can run out to early and place the icon in a bad spot causing a almost guaranteed wipe.
    Plutonus: Probably the easiest one to pug aslong as the dps is decent.
    Alsbeth: If the person wrecking with energy doesn't move it can result in a quick wipe.

    So if you look at those encounters there are a lot of fights where 1 bad player can cause a wipe and my guess is this is the reason why you don't see pugs for it.
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  15. #15
    In reference to the OP, the biggest single difference between Rift raiding and WoW raiding, imo, is that there's so much more you can do thats 'similar' to raiding.

    As he noted, there are several types of Rifts, many of whom can be taken down by a single low level player (which personally made questing a little more interesting to me at first).

    I've been level 50 for around a month or so now, but not felt like I was missing out by not raiding yet. Whereas in WoW, it felt like all I was ever doing was hoping for a raid, and usually ending in disappointment or frustration.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssa View Post
    Linear content is only a flaw if you must reach the end as fast as possible
    Actually - the single biggest problem with linear content, and the reason Blizzard is diminishing it so much, is when people quit doing 1 link in the chain, you as a new player (or new alt) are screwed. That being said, with an 11 million player subscription base, and they can't keep people from "forgetting" the earlier tiers, it concerns me for the fate of Rift, but while theres only 2 tiers it's much to early to judge, so I just hope it stays as epic as it is now. For the time being it's not concerning at all, and I say this as a brand new level 50, first time char, complete Rift noob

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Terito View Post
    Actually - the single biggest problem with linear content, and the reason Blizzard is diminishing it so much, is when people quit doing 1 link in the chain, you as a new player (or new alt) are screwed. That being said, with an 11 million player subscription base, and they can't keep people from "forgetting" the earlier tiers, it concerns me for the fate of Rift, but while theres only 2 tiers it's much to early to judge, so I just hope it stays as epic as it is now. For the time being it's not concerning at all, and I say this as a brand new level 50, first time char, complete Rift noob
    Well, Rift's model isn't full on linear like vanilla WoW was, it's more like a pyramid of rewards, the very top is the best and latest and has very limited sources, for every step down the pyramid you gain more and more ways to get the reward, eventually the bottom will be so full of options that it won't hinder you in any way, the benefit being that there is always that distant goal to strive for.

    This like a lot of other things in Rift is like they took vanilla/TBC WoW and developed it in another direction than Blizzard did, in this case keeping the linear philosophy but improving it to make it work without doing the full reset every tier.
    Last edited by Redblade; 2011-11-01 at 08:57 AM.
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  18. #18
    Even though it seems to be linear, in wow everyone had to be attuned, where in rift, at least currently it seems you only need 1 atunement, which is a much better design IMO.

    I am also a fairly fresh 50 though so may be way off here.

  19. #19
    Attunements wasn't a bad thing in them selfs, back then people mostly complained about them because it was hard to find groups or help from guildies, in todays environment the LFD tools in either game would basically solve that issue. The only attunement that was a bit to harsh i suppose was the one including Vashj and Kael, if they had been an attunement based on guild achive that would have worked though. With todays tools I'm sure people would have received them much better if done in a good way, they where a great way to give you a story about why you needed to go to the dungeon, not just "for the purplez".
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  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Radak View Post
    I don't know the reason why you don't see DH pugs. But on my server (Blightweald-EU) you see them from time to time.
    As for River of Souls. I think the reason is that there are a few mechanics that can easily get messed up in a pug like the following mechanics:
    Warmaster Galenir: Essence Transfer can easily be a problem if the person with the debuff reacts to late and heals the boss. If this happens to often you run into the enrage. With a pug you often don't have something like TS/vent/mumble and as such someone can easily mess up.
    Dark Focus: If the person with the debuff reacts to late he will blow up the raid.
    Herald: AoE hungry people can cause a double explosion or people can run out to early and place the icon in a bad spot causing a almost guaranteed wipe.
    Plutonus: Probably the easiest one to pug aslong as the dps is decent.
    Alsbeth: If the person wrecking with energy doesn't move it can result in a quick wipe.

    So if you look at those encounters there are a lot of fights where 1 bad player can cause a wipe and my guess is this is the reason why you don't see pugs for it.
    Those reasons are on the money. ROS pugs are rare due to those specific mechanics on Warmaster and Herald. We just can't power through the PUG ranger who doesn't understand how to stop his pet from chasing Warmaster or to stop auto-attacking when he has the debuff.

    On Keenblade, Wolfsbane and Deepstrike- ROS pugs typically do Foci and Plutonus. And if it's a HK guild's off night, they might do Alsbeth if possible. Rarely do full PUGs on those servers take out Warmaster (even though he is the easiest boss in the place) or Herald.

    I see GP/DH and Master Mode pugs everyday on every server. Super common.

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