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  1. #221
    Scarab Lord Loaf Lord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Fiend View Post
    I have one thing to ask for.

    Why the hell are some Jedi and Sith classes basically "Mages" with their lightsabre having no real function as they sit and cast force fireballs.

    Thats an extremely retarded thing and something Jedi and Sith were NEVER about even in KoToR
    If you look at some of the videos they are using the lightsabers to block blaster fire, so the casters/healers use them defensively I'd assume.

  2. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by Howlrunner View Post
    Have to ask people that are on Beta, and I know its against NDA, so not asking for specifics, but do ranged classes with weapons actually move during combat, or do they mainly just stay static.
    Only reason I am asking, is I can vaguely remember something being talked about the ranged classes using cover and being very active, ot just the stand and press a button repeatedly, but watching that video, they just stood there firing their gun, and it looked a bit silly to say the least. Yes, yes, I know WoW does it, but WoW is a 7 year old game, this is brand new and meant to be cutting edge and a WoW killer, but it seems they have just nabbed the exact same combat type with a couple of changes.

    All in all, I am very underwhelmed by watching that and a few other videos, and think Blizzard don't really have much to worry about :S
    You can see in various offical videos of ranged classes firing while running, doing a variety of moves, there appears to be grenade throwing, and shooting at the very least while on the move. Does that mean all attacks can be cast on the move - I don't know, however, it certainly seems like *some* can be.

  3. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by Howlrunner View Post
    Have to ask people that are on Beta, and I know its against NDA, so not asking for specifics, but do ranged classes with weapons actually move during combat, or do they mainly just stay static.
    Only reason I am asking, is I can vaguely remember something being talked about the ranged classes using cover and being very active, ot just the stand and press a button repeatedly, but watching that video, they just stood there firing their gun, and it looked a bit silly to say the least. Yes, yes, I know WoW does it, but WoW is a 7 year old game, this is brand new and meant to be cutting edge and a WoW killer, but it seems they have just nabbed the exact same combat type with a couple of changes.

    All in all, I am very underwhelmed by watching that and a few other videos, and think Blizzard don't really have much to worry about :S
    Who said SWTOR was going to be a WoW killer? Over zealous fans who don't know any better? Yeah they shouldn't really be listened to. SWTOR isn't going to be a WoW killer, but it can be a WoW contender. That's what this MMO market needs, more competition. More competition is leading Blizzard to pursue many of the changes that you see in 4.3 and in the next WoW expansion. Competition is making Blizzard do the whole transmog thing, people have been asking for something like that for many years and Blizzard always turned it down, now Rift comes out and manages to hold onto a decent following and Guild Wars 2 is coming out next year, both of these games have ways for people to choose the gear they want to keep while having stats from other gear, Blizzard sees that Rift has a following and GW2 is building up a following so they decide to finally give something the fans have been asking for because their competition is doing these things.

  4. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by Trollsbane View Post
    Almost every ability of every class can be used while moving. Only 1 of the 4 classes on each side use cover, and only 1 or 2 specs of the 5 actually rely on it.
    I don't have as extensive knowledge of the game as most people here, but when I played a Commando in the Huttball demo at Eurogamer it felt the exact opposite of what you're saying. I seemed to have one, maybe 2, offensive moves that I could use while moving, the rest of the time I had to stand still if I wanted to attack. It was incredibly annoying when trying to chase down the enemy that had the ball, and felt especially limiting in comparisson to GW2 (which I had played an hour and a half of by that point in the day) where you could cast everything while moving freely.

    I'm hoping the other classes are different, but unfortunately I wasn't allowed to choose one of the cool looking Jedi classes on the day, so didn't get to find out!

  5. #225
    Scarab Lord Trollsbane's Avatar
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    Probably because of the spec and level. When I played at PAX as a BH, the only move I had to stand still for was flamethrower. That's because it's channeled. Every other move could be used while running.

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  6. #226
    From PAX vids and other videos that have been accessible to the public, it's kinda like WoW. There's abilities that are casted that require you to remain standing still, there's abilities that can be casted while moving, and there's instant-casts (which obv can be used while moving).

    The pvp trooper video that TotalHalibut recorded at PAX (or gamescon, can't remember) showed the trooper class almost like a Hunter in WoW, able to spam lots of abilities while moving around. Search for him on youtube.

  7. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by CrimsonKing View Post
    Who said SWTOR was going to be a WoW killer? Over zealous fans who don't know any better? Yeah they shouldn't really be listened to. SWTOR isn't going to be a WoW killer, but it can be a WoW contender. That's what this MMO market needs, more competition. More competition is leading Blizzard to pursue many of the changes that you see in 4.3 and in the next WoW expansion. Competition is making Blizzard do the whole transmog thing, people have been asking for something like that for many years and Blizzard always turned it down, now Rift comes out and manages to hold onto a decent following and Guild Wars 2 is coming out next year, both of these games have ways for people to choose the gear they want to keep while having stats from other gear, Blizzard sees that Rift has a following and GW2 is building up a following so they decide to finally give something the fans have been asking for because their competition is doing these things.
    I agree that competition is a great thing, and will cause all companies concerned to raise the game, but after viewing SWTOR with its claims of revolutionising the genre etc, I haven't seen anything core mechanics wise from the videos that differentiates from the standard set by WoW, which in return was taken from EQ/UO, heck even Meridian 59 to an extent.
    The point is though, WoW is an older game, and there has been ample time for a developer with the time and money to come up with something new and different, but sadly I haven't seen anything from anyone yet, and the few times something new has been tried (Tabula Rasa?) it has flopped massively. I am hoping the release of these games will cause a shift in the dynamic, and maybe get WoW a bit less stagnant than it is right now, but ultimately there is only so much a company can do in an MMO. I guess after all the hype I was expecting something a bit more from SWTOR, but after watching the videos I am sadly dismayed. Yes, I know they are going on about the storyline and how you affect the choices etc, but lets be realistic here, if the core game itself is staid, old, and dull, then it won't impress for very long whatsoever.

    Here's hoping they can get rid of any kinks and make a great game though, be nice to see some other competition for a change than Blizzard resting on its proverbial laurels

  8. #228
    Scarab Lord Greevir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howlrunner View Post
    I agree that competition is a great thing, and will cause all companies concerned to raise the game, but after viewing SWTOR with its claims of revolutionising the genre etc, I haven't seen anything core mechanics wise from the videos that differentiates from the standard set by WoW, which in return was taken from EQ/UO, heck even Meridian 59 to an extent.
    The point is though, WoW is an older game, and there has been ample time for a developer with the time and money to come up with something new and different, but sadly I haven't seen anything from anyone yet, and the few times something new has been tried (Tabula Rasa?) it has flopped massively. I am hoping the release of these games will cause a shift in the dynamic, and maybe get WoW a bit less stagnant than it is right now, but ultimately there is only so much a company can do in an MMO. I guess after all the hype I was expecting something a bit more from SWTOR, but after watching the videos I am sadly dismayed. Yes, I know they are going on about the storyline and how you affect the choices etc, but lets be realistic here, if the core game itself is staid, old, and dull, then it won't impress for very long whatsoever.

    Here's hoping they can get rid of any kinks and make a great game though, be nice to see some other competition for a change than Blizzard resting on its proverbial laurels
    I can't seem to find where SWTOR claims to "revolutionize the genre".

  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by Howlrunner View Post
    I agree that competition is a great thing, and will cause all companies concerned to raise the game, but after viewing SWTOR with its claims of revolutionising the genre etc, I haven't seen anything core mechanics wise from the videos that differentiates from the standard set by WoW, which in return was taken from EQ/UO, heck even Meridian 59 to an extent.
    The point is though, WoW is an older game, and there has been ample time for a developer with the time and money to come up with something new and different, but sadly I haven't seen anything from anyone yet, and the few times something new has been tried (Tabula Rasa?) it has flopped massively. I am hoping the release of these games will cause a shift in the dynamic, and maybe get WoW a bit less stagnant than it is right now, but ultimately there is only so much a company can do in an MMO. I guess after all the hype I was expecting something a bit more from SWTOR, but after watching the videos I am sadly dismayed. Yes, I know they are going on about the storyline and how you affect the choices etc, but lets be realistic here, if the core game itself is staid, old, and dull, then it won't impress for very long whatsoever.

    Here's hoping they can get rid of any kinks and make a great game though, be nice to see some other competition for a change than Blizzard resting on its proverbial laurels
    Are you saying you hope SWTOR does something new and exciting so WoW gets better? I'm not surprised you found that trailer to be "crap" when it was meant to showcase the zone, not pvp combat. These videos definitely don't have guys standing around taking turns until their HP hits 0. And I'm not sure how the animations are considered "stiff." These videos are from the Alderaan Warzone and took place at PAX 2011. Not sure about how I feel about the autofacing with channeled abilities, but I'm not going to point out one thing and say the whole game is crap.





    Last edited by Flagellum; 2011-11-05 at 12:20 AM.

  10. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by Howlrunner View Post
    I agree that competition is a great thing, and will cause all companies concerned to raise the game, but after viewing SWTOR with its claims of revolutionising the genre etc, I haven't seen anything core mechanics wise from the videos that differentiates from the standard set by WoW, which in return was taken from EQ/UO, heck even Meridian 59 to an extent.
    The point is though, WoW is an older game, and there has been ample time for a developer with the time and money to come up with something new and different, but sadly I haven't seen anything from anyone yet, and the few times something new has been tried (Tabula Rasa?) it has flopped massively. I am hoping the release of these games will cause a shift in the dynamic, and maybe get WoW a bit less stagnant than it is right now, but ultimately there is only so much a company can do in an MMO. I guess after all the hype I was expecting something a bit more from SWTOR, but after watching the videos I am sadly dismayed. Yes, I know they are going on about the storyline and how you affect the choices etc, but lets be realistic here, if the core game itself is staid, old, and dull, then it won't impress for very long whatsoever.

    Here's hoping they can get rid of any kinks and make a great game though, be nice to see some other competition for a change than Blizzard resting on its proverbial laurels
    The only MMO that I have seen lately where the developers themselves have said they're trying to revolutionize the genre is Guild Wars 2. Are you sure you don't have your games mixed up here? The only major claim I have heard from Bioware is they're trying to bring the RPG back into MMORPG, as in make a game that has a hell of lot of in game lore that you actually get to witness first hand, which is something most MMOs especially WoW don't let you witness. I personally find nothing wrong with WoW in the big picture, I have no problem with the questing they have or even the trinity or even the actual game play, but I don't like how in regards to lore within the actual game it's been thrown out the window almost completely. I also have a bigger preference for Sci-Fi over fantasy.

    So basically I can be happy with a Sci-Fi MMO that has a lot of WoW trappings, but one that pays a lot more attention to the story. Hmm sounds like SWTOR to me.

    I'm also going to be picking up GW2 and making it my second long term game next to SWTOR. I'll even be picking up the next WoW expansion, because hey why not I don't hate WoW or even dislike it all that much, I just think SWTOR will provide a better all over experience for me, but I do want to experience the changes in MoP first hand at least to the level cap. Also switching between these three games instead of focusing on just one of them solely will help shake off any burnout that can come from playing just one game for far too long.

  11. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by CrimsonKing View Post
    The only MMO that I have seen lately where the developers themselves have said they're trying to revolutionize the genre is Guild Wars 2. Are you sure you don't have your games mixed up here? The only major claim I have heard from Bioware is they're trying to bring the RPG back into MMORPG, as in make a game that has a hell of lot of in game lore that you actually get to witness first hand, which is something most MMOs especially WoW don't let you witness. I personally find nothing wrong with WoW in the big picture, I have no problem with the questing they have or even the trinity or even the actual game play, but I don't like how in regards to lore within the actual game it's been thrown out the window almost completely. I also have a bigger preference for Sci-Fi over fantasy.

    So basically I can be happy with a Sci-Fi MMO that has a lot of WoW trappings, but one that pays a lot more attention to the story. Hmm sounds like SWTOR to me.

    I'm also going to be picking up GW2 and making it my second long term game next to SWTOR. I'll even be picking up the next WoW expansion, because hey why not I don't hate WoW or even dislike it all that much, I just think SWTOR will provide a better all over experience for me, but I do want to experience the changes in MoP first hand at least to the level cap. Also switching between these three games instead of focusing on just one of them solely will help shake off any burnout that can come from playing just one game for far too long.
    Sorta off topic, but I was not as impressed with MoP (or Cata to an extent). Like you I'm quite burnt out with WoW so that may be affecting my judgment. Though the SWTOR/GW2 combo will be nice since GW2 will not have any monthly fees I'll be aspiring to be just like the Fett Man.
    Last edited by Flagellum; 2011-11-05 at 02:02 AM.

  12. #232
    can't see any fromt he trailers, they just stand still and hit eachother, you know, for trailer purposes.

    but if the combat isnt as "lively" as WoW is currently (you usually run around your opponent, throu them etc) and not able to jump during animaitons then its gonna feel stiff



    I don't have beta so I have no idea how it is.

  13. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by jonte912 View Post
    can't see any fromt he trailers, they just stand still and hit eachother, you know, for trailer purposes.

    but if the combat isnt as "lively" as WoW is currently (you usually run around your opponent, throu them etc) and not able to jump during animaitons then its gonna feel stiff



    I don't have beta so I have no idea how it is.
    Not trying to sound rude in any way, but did you watch any of the videos I posted above? You can see people running through others and certain abilities can make you do various jumping animations. No clue whether you can jump yourself or not, but judging from the videos it doesn't seem like it's any less lively or more stiff. At least to me.
    Last edited by Flagellum; 2011-11-05 at 03:02 AM.

  14. #234
    Warchief Omians's Avatar
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    The Jedi mages that use lightsabers that dont really use them to hit stuff.. those lightsabers will have + Force type stats, there will be melee lightsabers and ones that work for the healer or caster, just like how there are healer maces and swords
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  15. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by Thornstar View Post
    Your probably watching the 2 year old videos that everyone sees then comments on. Please watch this video and tell me combat is "Stiff"
    http://www.swtor.com/media/trailers/voidstar-warzone
    Okay.
    It looks stiff.

    I've also never been interested in Star Wars or scifi in general, so..
    Last edited by Minky; 2011-11-05 at 04:14 AM.

  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by Minky View Post
    Okay.
    It looks stiff.

    I've also never been interested in Star Wars or scifi in general, so..
    Which begs the question...why are you in a Star Wars thread if it doesn't interest you?

  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by Minky View Post
    Okay.
    It looks stiff.

    I've also never been interested in Star Wars or scifi in general, so..
    That's really not a video that demonstrates game play. It's more for showing off the zone and objectives in SWTOR's version of Battlegrounds. Then again, after the last part there, it probably wouldn't matter as you could care less and already don't like the genre. This doesn't give your opinion on the subject much merit. But I suppose everyone is entitled to their own.

  18. #238
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    Last edited by Trollsbane; 2011-11-05 at 05:08 AM.
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  19. #239
    The Lightbringer Snes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thornstar View Post
    Your probably watching the 2 year old videos that everyone sees then comments on. Please watch this video and tell me combat is "Stiff"
    http://www.swtor.com/media/trailers/voidstar-warzone
    I remember when I used to watch trailers and think the game would play out exactly like they showed.

  20. #240
    Scarab Lord zealous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Fiend View Post
    Where they have always fallen down, is their character development, where the actual writing for the character is either bland and generic (karth/kaiden, who are pretty much the same person but one is magic). The Only characters I have ever seen Bioware create well are those that are left blank, or those whos voice acting gave them alot of personality ( wrex and Garrus ). One of the main selling points they are trying to put out is the "characters" interaction on the same level as Mass effect. it feels like they are focusing on a weakness without going with the strengths of what an MMO can bring, like large planet side battles and fleet boarding actions.
    Again, can you please stop it with the "I know what is wrong with Bioware" theme and at least indicate that "I think that..." or "I feel like...". Because you're talking as if you're an authoritative expert on the matter, and some people who haven't yet formed an opinion themselves might believe you blindly here.

    It's annoying to no end.

    Just please, at least slightly indicate you're telling your opinion and not the stats of a documented survey. It's common courtesy and the culture of civil debate.

    I personally always liked Bioware character development, I've always felt that 8 out of 10 (at the very least) central characters were deep and interesting. The only ones I didn't like out of the whole 13 year old history of the company were : male Shepard (ugh... "me American marine! me save universe! me smiley goofy when me in love!") most of the reason for that weren't the lines by the BW writers but his voice actor and his stupid face expressions, and prince Sebastian from DA2 simply because he was a tad underdeveloped.


    Quote Originally Posted by The Fiend View Post
    I have one thing to ask for.

    Why the hell are some Jedi and Sith classes basically "Mages" with their lightsabre having no real function as they sit and cast force fireballs.

    Thats an extremely retarded thing and something Jedi and Sith were NEVER about even in KoToR
    "Some" are only 2 Advanced classes out of 8 in the game.

    Both of the "mage" classes have one melee spec and one ranged spec. And even the ranged spec uses their lightsaber: they deflect blaster bolts and I've seen them hit enemies that come close if every instant spell they have is on cooldown at the time. Then, ofc they try to open some distance and start shooting stuff.

    But even if they didn't hit with the lightsabers at all, I would be fine with it. If you know anything about Sith history, a lot of them were more like fantasy dark mages than Jedis. They had complex rituals, alchemy, a lot of them didn't give a shit about melee combat.

    The two classic archetypes to this are Marka Ragnos (philosophy of the Sith Warrior) and Naga Sadow (philosophy of the Sith Sorceror). Ragnos was an excelent duelist, while Sadow was, for all intents and purposes, a dark mage. He favored mind control, destructive spells. He actually achieved purposefully turning into a ghost after death so he could posses and influence future Jedi to turn them to the dark side if they ever found his tomb.

    And if you're focused on "Why do the Sorcerers carry lightsabers if they barely use them?" - first of all - it's a status symbol, and second - some crystals also give the wielder a boost in magic powers.

    Why don't you ask then why feral druids carry staffs around if they never actually have them in cat/bear form. What, does the staff turn liquid and seep into their paws empowering their attacks?

    Why do casters in WoW use swords and daggers if they never do anything with them? Not only do they not stab people with them, but they don't use them to channel spells either. All the casting is done with your hands.

    I don't see you complaining about that, since it's based on the limitations of WoW's engine and dev team.

    Why can't you accept the "Sorcerer with lightsaber" situation, since it can not only be explained by technical reasons, but also is quite logical lore-wise. The saber is a status symbol and a safety net (in case you don't have time to cast a spell in a split second).
    Last edited by zealous; 2011-11-05 at 08:23 AM.
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