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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Domenik View Post
    <snip>stuff about patch<snip>
    That is protected by NDA, btw. May wanna edit that.
    Check out what I'm selling in ESO HERE!

    Interested in joining the MMO-Champion US guild? Whisper me in-game! @greevir

  2. #62
    I am Murloc! Luko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    You really just proved his point with that video. They literally do not react to getting hit by lasers and light sabers.
    I was going to say this, actually. Glad I read a few pages in. I've played the beta pretty in depth. There's not really much I can say about this since the NDA modding in these forums is actually more strict than it is on the official site, but I agree fully with the quoted poster here.

    Also, a few posts up, someone mentioned how reactive combat is a poor choice because of latency. I feel the exact same way and I certainly didn't come by this impression from one of the many choreographed bioware trailers. You'll see what I mean in a couple weeks.

    However, the people who truly love this game already and will not be swayed from buying it (More power to them and the game, honestly. I genuinely hope it does great) aren't getting it because the combat looks great. One thing is for sure, the combat certainly doesn't look awful and that's just going to have to be enough for the people getting it for the Star Wars experience. They probably won't be disappointed over all.
    Listen kiddos, trust Handsome Jack. You want every part of this insanity.
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  3. #63
    Scarab Lord zealous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryngo Blackratchet View Post
    However, the people who truly love this game already and will not be swayed from buying it (More power to them and the game, honestly. I genuinely hope it does great) aren't getting it because the combat looks great. One thing is for sure, the combat certainly doesn't look awful and that's just going to have to be enough for the people getting it for the Star Wars experience. They probably won't be disappointed over all.
    The combat animations are by no means next gen, but they are at the very least a bit better than in WoW. So people that were satisfied with WoW for years in that regard will not be disappointed with TOR I think.

    Also, the promotional videos are mostly very poorly made/played in terms of combat.

    This one (provided on the first page) illustrates the body animations a bit better:

    http://www.swtor.com/media/trailers/...-bounty-hunter

    I especially like the physics of the Jedi Knight here, the force-powered kick at around 3-08 shows a step-up in animations in comparison to WoW too.

    Not trying to trash WoW here at all, and not trying to overhype TOR, it's obviously not a next gen game engine-wise, but I don't believe that the animations are choppy or stiff.
    - Looks like they took him to some bolt hole in the Wounded Coast.
    - I wonder if it's near the Injured Cliffs? Or the Limping Hills? Massive-Head-Trauma-Bay? No? Just me? *sigh* Forget I said anything.

  4. #64
    Scarab Lord Trollsbane's Avatar
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    Don't show when they get hit, especially ranged? I don't know. Have a look at 0:22 in this old video.

    (This is a long time ago, so don't judge that harshly based on what you see for animations)


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  5. #65
    Scarab Lord zealous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trollsbane View Post
    Don't show when they get hit, especially ranged? I don't know. Have a look at 0:22 in this old video.

    (This is a long time ago, so don't judge that harshly based on what you see for animations)
    Oooh I really wish you hadn't linked that.

    It's a video from one of the first builds of the game, with horrible graphics that don't represent what the game looks like now AT ALL.

    I know that wasn't the purpose of your video, but I already hear the swarms of trolls descending on it to comment how crappy TOR's graphics are and how it will fall flat on it's face and crap like "see you back in WoW in three months" etc.
    - Looks like they took him to some bolt hole in the Wounded Coast.
    - I wonder if it's near the Injured Cliffs? Or the Limping Hills? Massive-Head-Trauma-Bay? No? Just me? *sigh* Forget I said anything.

  6. #66
    Scarab Lord Trollsbane's Avatar
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    Or look here at the Force leap animation with the body movement, or the troopers body gigrating with full auto, or there's the rocket punch:

    http://www.swtor.com/news/news-article/20110916

    Or check out this old video highlighting all the combat animations:




    Even in these last 3 videos I posted, and how old they are, you can see many of the things actually are happening that this thread is saying they aren't seeing or don't like.

    (Btw, pretty much every animation you are seeing has been GREATLY improved since then. Especially running)

    ---------- Post added 2011-10-30 at 04:50 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by zealous View Post
    Oooh I really wish you hadn't linked that.

    It's a video from one of the first builds of the game, with horrible graphics that don't represent what the game looks like now AT ALL.

    I know that wasn't the purpose of your video, but I already hear the swarms of trolls descending on it to comment how crappy TOR's graphics are and how it will fall flat on it's face and crap like "see you back in WoW in three months" etc.
    If they can't realize that, that just shows they already have their minds made up. And if they troll, I just give them the red card. =)
    Last edited by Trollsbane; 2011-10-30 at 11:49 PM.

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  7. #67
    Scarab Lord zealous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trollsbane View Post
    snip
    Great video in terms of self-education on the game =)

    I loved the fact that you can knock back somebody mid-jump like the Trooper did to the SW.

    Most of the animations look not only smooth to me but also very visually-pleasing. The lightsaber attack with the knocback looked great to me as someone who plans on rolling an SW =)
    - Looks like they took him to some bolt hole in the Wounded Coast.
    - I wonder if it's near the Injured Cliffs? Or the Limping Hills? Massive-Head-Trauma-Bay? No? Just me? *sigh* Forget I said anything.

  8. #68
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    This was something that kinda (and only kinda) bothered me when I first started gobbling up videos on youtube about tor will I realized I was looking at 2 years old trailers.

    As a side note, my heart goes out to all you guys who have been waiting that long for this game. I count myself lucky that I only got into it a month or so ago. Don't have to wait nearly as long!
    "I'll tell you something, my Tenchi, you know the carnival comes and goes. But if you wait for a while, it'll always come back to you, Tenchi."~Ryoko TENCHIxRYOKO FTW!

    "The crystal is the heart of the blade. The heart is the crystal of the Jedi. The Jedi is the crystal of the Force.
    The Force is the blade of the heart. All are intertwined. The crystal, the blade, the Jedi. You are one.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Saintphoenix View Post
    LOL sorry mate but i think ur watching the wrong game,<Snip> this games combat owns wows, no auto attacks so u do everything is awesome, and ive avoided playing almost every other star wars games about jedi for that reason, they all are stiff, this is NOT
    nah uh. I even preordered it, but yes, the combat does NOT look any where near as fluid and polished as WoW combat. IMO. Don't bring the auto attacks into this because we're talking about combat fluidity, not ability selection.
    Last edited by Trollsbane; 2011-10-31 at 03:05 PM.

  10. #70
    I think this refers to combat with player vs npc mobs. Standing toe to toe firing blasters at each other spoils immersion they should be ducking behind cover etc.

    Videos which aren't stiff seem to be player vs player, or clever editing.

    Are there any recent vids that show player vs npc?

  11. #71
    Still looks pretty stiff to me. Would be cool if you could roll to dodge shots when in a gunfight, or take cover behind objects.
    Last edited by Shriekbat; 2011-10-31 at 12:41 PM.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Shriekbat View Post
    Still looks pretty stiff to me. Would be cool if you could roll to dodge shots when in a gunfight, or take cover behind objects.
    There are two classes built entirely around this mechanic.
    /CantTellIfTrolling

  13. #73
    The Lightbringer vian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doozerjun View Post
    The individual animations in TOR are great. But in combat (and running) there is just something...off. Perhaps it is the lack of a reaction while getting hit. Compare that to a game like Vindictus where you "feel" every hit. Even in AoC you can see the blood spatter when you get hit, it seems a lot more viceral. Perhaps you don't need that level in TOR but some static combat animations might be nice to put in. I think the biggest culprit of what I'm talking about is when you see a ranged fight.
    If this is a major issue for the gamers post-launch, you can bet your ass that BW will dive headfirst into the matter! : )

    ---------- Post added 2011-10-31 at 02:31 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Will View Post
    nah uh. I even preordered it, but yes, the combat does NOT look any where near as fluid and polished as WoW combat. IMO. Don't bring the auto attacks into this because we're talking about combat fluidity, not ability selection.
    Heads up!

    You call the WoW combat fluid? Have you actually seen what happens when you spam buttoms? It's called jumping-animations, at a set point the client ignores the animation fully - shows you a number - then goes back into hacking and slashing.

    But yeah, I do get why you mean it's the most fluid, movement is really solid but! I would consider it one of the most boring ones, almost on par with EQ2 - Telekenetic Swings anyone? : P
    Last edited by Trollsbane; 2011-10-31 at 03:06 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by bizzy View Post
    yeh but lava is just very hot water

  14. #74
    Fluid combat was my #1 biggest worry about the game, watching videos doesn't do anything because it could look great in a video and once you sit down something is still.....missing.

    After playing it at a convention a few times, I can honestly say that they hit it on the head with fluid combat, comparing it to WoW which is by far the best at this aspect, it feels at home and comfortable, unlike another game to date.
    Last edited by Trollsbane; 2011-10-31 at 03:26 PM.

  15. #75
    I've seen older videos and I've seen newer ones and I totally agree here. It looks very stiff.
    That's also what made me quit Rift after the first month. And that's also the only thing WoW does better than other MMORPGs.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    You really just proved his point with that video. They literally do not react to getting hit by lasers and light sabers.
    Have you ever played WoW? Just wondering; WoW is the posterchild for poor combat animations.

  17. #77
    I find that whole "animations" argument to be a crappy one anyway.

    Personally, when Im fighting a NPC or a person in PvP I don't care how pretty it looks when my sword/lightsaber/laser bolt hits them or when I get hit. I care how the combat feels when I'm playing. WoWs combat animations are truly terrible but the gameplay is extremely fluid, and i think this has been captured in TOR which is fantastic.

  18. #78
    Brewmaster link064's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will View Post
    Don't bring the auto attacks into this because we're talking about combat fluidity, not ability selection.
    Why does auto attack not affect combat fluidity? You do realize that all those extra swing animations get thrown in there somewhere and makes the combat look the opposite of what you're suggesting, right? It gets even worse when you're dual-wielding because there's a second auto attack animation thrown in there that usually gets completely chopped off.

    Watch this first minute of this video and this video from about 8:13 to 13:30 (they aren't the best videos, but they're what I could find quickly). Tell me how many skipped frames of animation you're counting. Seriously, the second video highlights how insanely jerky combat can be. I'm not trying to bash Wow, just showing that you shouldn't hold it on a pedestal for "fluid combat".

    Honestly, I think people are experiencing one of two symptoms while watching swtor combat:
    1) They're associating "really fast attacking and ability spamming" with "fluid combat". I can totally see that some people won't like swtor's combat because it isn't a gigantic numberfest filled with quick, choppy animations. However, "fluid combat" and "lightning fast number dumps" should not be confused with each other. Just because swtor doesn't look like a caffeinated squirrel on speed doesn't mean it isn't "fluid".
    2) They're seeing actual, full combat animations and starting to veer into "uncanny valley". People aren't used to seeing full animation sequences in MMOs and so anything that is more realistic looking begins to look more unrealistic because of this effect. It's like watching a movie with really detailed CGI people and going, "there's something wrong with that person, but I can't figure out what". Or, for me at least, watching movies/tv on screens with a frequency higher than 120Hz causes this effect. I usually think that it is playing the movie in fast forward until I can really settle on the speed.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Xandel View Post
    What i was talking about are the animations. The characters look so stiff because they move like robots. Too smymetrical and perfect.
    There is almost no movement in torso or like people before said it looks like a wooden stick clipped to their back.
    Body takes no response from feet touching the ground while running (well "jogging").
    In many situations animations look too fluent and slow but undynamic and should be more abrupt and impulsive( stopping, sprinting,abilities...)


    And the might not be many MMOs who do that better but i think wow does this way better (at least with some races: Orcs , Undead, nightelf) in this and is 7 years old.
    I can dig where you are coming from, as I feel the same about games (not that MMO's can do anything about it, but thats another subject).

    However, I am stunned by your thinking that WOW, (a game I still play) has anything CLOSE to good animation. Its truly horrible and is the dated engine is the point of many jest from devs, users, and the internet alike.

  20. #80
    Scarab Lord zealous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by link064 View Post
    snip
    Or 3):

    Some people are so defensive about a new game coming out that they want to find fault with anything they possibly can, even though judging combat fluidity from videos is one of the most idiotic missions ever.

    I watched videos of Rift and the combat looked amazing, because what I mostly saw were highly edited vids that never exposed more than 3 seconds of actual gameplay per scene.

    Then I bought the game and the reality left me scratching my head.

    There is much more real (non-edited or only slightly edited) footage of TOR at this point, including stuff that is under NDA but can still be found on the web. And the animations look fine if you take into account that people that played at conventions and in beta are clicking skills, keyboard turning and forgetting to spam the "auto-attack replacement" ability.

    The animations themselves, from a design and engine perspective, are miles ahead of WoW. I feel confident enough saying that, since I played the game for 5 years.

    And I assure all the people that are satisfied with WoW's animations, you will be more than satisfied with TOR's, once you actually get your hands on it instead of watching journalists that barely know how to play Bubble Bobble try to PvP, pressing an average of 1 skill per minute.
    - Looks like they took him to some bolt hole in the Wounded Coast.
    - I wonder if it's near the Injured Cliffs? Or the Limping Hills? Massive-Head-Trauma-Bay? No? Just me? *sigh* Forget I said anything.

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