View Poll Results: Choose one !

Voters
104. You may not vote on this poll
  • Aliens

    21 20.19%
  • Zombies

    19 18.27%
  • Demons

    64 61.54%
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  1. #41
    All 3 for me, you gave no option to that though...why ?
    ALiens is a must in games , roll on colonial marines
    Zombies yes! love all zombie games like lfd2/dead island etc
    Demons yes, cant beat a bit of painkiller!!!!!

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by BatteredRose View Post
    Zombies. They'll nibble on the demons and aliens and turn them into zombies. The end.
    But the skin of a Balor is like armor! They have a +19 natural armor, that's like trying to bite through two suits of diamond full plate!
    If Goku's power level increases at the same rate till the end of DBGT as it does till the end of the Frieza saga, as a SS4 Goku would have a PL of roughly 939 Quinoctogintillion. For reference that is a 260 digit number. A PL of 14,600 is required to destroy an earth sized planet. There are about 2 nonillion earths worth of mass in the universe. That means SS4 Goku can destroy the universe about 32 Octosexagintillion times over. There's a reason they made Goku a god at the end of GT.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Laurcus View Post
    But the skin of a Balor is like armor! They have a +19 natural armor, that's like trying to bite through two suits of diamond full plate!
    Exactly, lots of armor+damage reduction, not counting innate magical abilities.
    Zombies are just fodder, aliens can be quite strong and "alien", but demons are one of the most powerful enemies (in D&D, and most of fantasy that's born from it).

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by muto View Post
    My reasoning as well. Too much Zombie crap, and Aliens aren't far behind.
    eh too bad i guess...

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by jaelrin View Post
    Exactly, lots of armor+damage reduction, not counting innate magical abilities.
    Zombies are just fodder, aliens can be quite strong and "alien", but demons are one of the most powerful enemies (in D&D, and most of fantasy that's born from it).
    Yeah, demons are great. There's a reason zombies are a CR 1 and Balors are a CR 20. By the variant rule of a natural 20 counts as a role of 30, with a zombie's +2 to attack it can't even hit a Balor's 35 AC. Balors also hit for an average of 15 damage against a zombie's 13 HP, and that's before power attack which a Balor would most certainly use considering Zombies have an AC of 10 and a Balor has a +33 to attack. And a typical Balor commoner writeup has them with cleave, so each sword attack would effectively produce two kills. Balors also have a flaming body that deals an average of 21 damage to anyone that tries to grapple a Balor, so no surround and grab BS for the zombies. And as a trump card a Balor can cast firestorm once per day, instantly immolating 400 square feet for an average of 70 damage. They can also use telekinesis 3 times per day as a free action, knocking back those useless zombies.

    What's more, for a physical attack to transmit a poison or disease, it must do at least 1 point of damage. A bite from a zombie would be classified as a small natural weapon, so that's 1d4 + strength. Or an average of 4 damage per hit. Balors have 15 damage reduction, only penetrated by good and cold iron. And no, that's not a piece of low temperature iron, it's an alchemical metal designed to nullify magic. Even if a zombie bit a Balor while it was sleeping, (pretty sure they don't need to sleep, but let's just say they do because it's funnier this way) via a maximized coup de grace it would only deal 2d4 + 2 maximized, or 10 damage.

    So even biting a sleeping Balor in the eye wouldn't be enough to pierce its skin.

    And to top it all off, this is a writeup for a basic Balor commoner that only has base hit dice in their base racial class. Many Balors have levels in character classes in addition to their racial hit dice. Good luck killing a 20th level Balor cleric, 40 hit dice, 40 CR.

    A truly infinite number of zombies would never be able to kill or infect a single Balor commoner. Their generals and nobility are truly killing machines of mass destruction, a handful of which could wipe out the mortal world in days without the intervention of a deity or an army of Solars.
    If Goku's power level increases at the same rate till the end of DBGT as it does till the end of the Frieza saga, as a SS4 Goku would have a PL of roughly 939 Quinoctogintillion. For reference that is a 260 digit number. A PL of 14,600 is required to destroy an earth sized planet. There are about 2 nonillion earths worth of mass in the universe. That means SS4 Goku can destroy the universe about 32 Octosexagintillion times over. There's a reason they made Goku a god at the end of GT.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Laurcus View Post
    Yeah, demons are great. There's a reason zombies are a CR 1 and Balors are a CR 20. By the variant rule of a natural 20 counts as a role of 30, with a zombie's +2 to attack it can't even hit a Balor's 35 AC. Balors also hit for an average of 15 damage against a zombie's 13 HP, and that's before power attack which a Balor would most certainly use considering Zombies have an AC of 10 and a Balor has a +33 to attack. And a typical Balor commoner writeup has them with cleave, so each sword attack would effectively produce two kills. Balors also have a flaming body that deals an average of 21 damage to anyone that tries to grapple a Balor, so no surround and grab BS for the zombies. And as a trump card a Balor can cast firestorm once per day, instantly immolating 400 square feet for an average of 70 damage. They can also use telekinesis 3 times per day as a free action, knocking back those useless zombies.

    What's more, for a physical attack to transmit a poison or disease, it must do at least 1 point of damage. A bite from a zombie would be classified as a small natural weapon, so that's 1d4 + strength. Or an average of 4 damage per hit. Balors have 15 damage reduction, only penetrated by good and cold iron. And no, that's not a piece of low temperature iron, it's an alchemical metal designed to nullify magic. Even if a zombie bit a Balor while it was sleeping, (pretty sure they don't need to sleep, but let's just say they do because it's funnier this way) via a maximized coup de grace it would only deal 2d4 + 2 maximized, or 10 damage.

    So even biting a sleeping Balor in the eye wouldn't be enough to pierce its skin.

    And to top it all off, this is a writeup for a basic Balor commoner that only has base hit dice in their base racial class. Many Balors have levels in character classes in addition to their racial hit dice. Good luck killing a 20th level Balor cleric, 40 hit dice, 40 CR.

    A truly infinite number of zombies would never be able to kill or infect a single Balor commoner. Their generals and nobility are truly killing machines of mass destruction, a handful of which could wipe out the mortal world in days without the intervention of a deity or an army of Solars.
    Uau....Thank you.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by schweinsteiger View Post
    Uau....Thank you.
    Uh, you're welcome I guess? I was just doing one of my typical nerd rants, nothing special.
    If Goku's power level increases at the same rate till the end of DBGT as it does till the end of the Frieza saga, as a SS4 Goku would have a PL of roughly 939 Quinoctogintillion. For reference that is a 260 digit number. A PL of 14,600 is required to destroy an earth sized planet. There are about 2 nonillion earths worth of mass in the universe. That means SS4 Goku can destroy the universe about 32 Octosexagintillion times over. There's a reason they made Goku a god at the end of GT.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Laurcus View Post
    Uh, you're welcome I guess? I was just doing one of my typical nerd rants, nothing special.
    quite some insight there :P

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Laurcus View Post
    A truly infinite number of zombies would never be able to kill or infect a single Balor commoner.
    Well, I guess an infinite number of zombies can be considered a swarm that doesn't need to roll attack, and does damage just by entering target space...and maybe they'll manage to pierce DR. Yet even the lowliest demons are stronger than average zombie, that's why I never understood Orcus' passion and patronage over undead.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by schweinsteiger View Post
    I find that zombies are really cool for survival etc, but demons and aliens open a lot more room, while demons seem more scary, to me at least. I loved Diablo when i was a child, was always looking for crazy horror films etc as well, can't wait for diablo 3 so i'm sticking out with Demons as well.
    This. Demons are from tiny little annoying things like Warlocks have until diabolo and much more mighty beasts.

    @schweinsteiger

    Ich schäme mich im Internet regelrecht zu zu geben Deutscher zu seien und du posaunst das einfach so raus Find ich Klasse :P
    Please excuse my inability to speak correct English.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by jaelrin View Post
    Well, I guess an infinite number of zombies can be considered a swarm that doesn't need to roll attack, and does damage just by entering target space...and maybe they'll manage to pierce DR. Yet even the lowliest demons are stronger than average zombie, that's why I never understood Orcus' passion and patronage over undead.
    I don't think medium sized creatures can ever be considered a swarm. And they'd never pierce a Balor's DR even with a maximized roll on a crit. They simply don't have the damage output. Also, entering a Balor's space should count as a grapple for purposes of their flaming body ability, which is 6d6 fire damage, easily enough to one shot a zombie if you take average.

    As for Orcus, he controls more than simple zombies. Some undead in D&D are incredibly powerful, and can go toe to toe with most demons quite easily. Like corpse gatherers from the Monster Manual 2. CR 19 gargantuan size undead with 195 HP, +23 melee slam attack, 2d12+18 damage, with a crapton of special attacks and special qualities.

    His mastery over undead is kind of a big deal, especially when you throw in high level liches, or even undead mindflayers.
    If Goku's power level increases at the same rate till the end of DBGT as it does till the end of the Frieza saga, as a SS4 Goku would have a PL of roughly 939 Quinoctogintillion. For reference that is a 260 digit number. A PL of 14,600 is required to destroy an earth sized planet. There are about 2 nonillion earths worth of mass in the universe. That means SS4 Goku can destroy the universe about 32 Octosexagintillion times over. There's a reason they made Goku a god at the end of GT.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Laurcus View Post
    I don't think medium sized creatures can ever be considered a swarm. And they'd never pierce a Balor's DR even with a maximized roll on a crit. They simply don't have the damage output.
    If you have Cityscape, check page 124 for mobs..they use swarm rule for small, medium and large creatures. For example, mob of humans (commoners, I guess) has CR 8, 135 hp and 5d6 melee. But AoE spells and attacks are very effective against mobs, doing +50% damage.
    Last edited by Against the Modern World; 2011-11-03 at 09:52 AM.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by jaelrin View Post
    If you have Cityscape, check page 124 for mobs..they use swarm rule for small, medium and large creatures. For example, mob of humans (commoners, I guess) has CR 8, 135 hp and 5d6 melee. But AoE spells and attacks are very effective against mobs, doing +50% damage.
    That's pretty cool, just read it the entire description. A horde of zombies moving into a Balor's space would activate its flaming body for each creature in melee attack range, resulting in an infinite number of negative levels to match the infinite number of zombies.

    So basically, the mob would advance by its speed, and the Balor's space would be covered by zombies. Before they could make their damage roll though, the Balor's flaming body would kill all zombies in its space, resulting in multiple negative levels, and preventing the attack because there would no longer be any part of the mob in the Balor's space. It's much like attacking a building. A building may have a lot of total health, but individual sections can be destroyed, thus weakening the whole. Because even with infinite numbers, the zombie horde still has to obey the rules of speed, and space/reach. Also, attacks of opportunity are allowed against anything that moves into the Balor's space, simply changing out one or two of the Balor's base feats for combat reflexes, or better yet, great cleave would easily allow a Balor to keep its 10 by 10 space clean of any zombies.

    It's a moot point anyway. A Balor can fly and just spam telekinesis all day, or use its whip from outside the zombie's melee range. Balor wins by mob rules and individual monster rules. With both brute force or intelligent use of abilities.
    Last edited by Laurcus; 2011-11-03 at 10:14 AM.
    If Goku's power level increases at the same rate till the end of DBGT as it does till the end of the Frieza saga, as a SS4 Goku would have a PL of roughly 939 Quinoctogintillion. For reference that is a 260 digit number. A PL of 14,600 is required to destroy an earth sized planet. There are about 2 nonillion earths worth of mass in the universe. That means SS4 Goku can destroy the universe about 32 Octosexagintillion times over. There's a reason they made Goku a god at the end of GT.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Obamadin View Post
    This. Demons are from tiny little annoying things like Warlocks have until diabolo and much more mighty beasts.

    @schweinsteiger

    Ich schäme mich im Internet regelrecht zu zu geben Deutscher zu seien und du posaunst das einfach so raus Find ich Klasse :P
    Wirklich? *scheu* hahah , herzlichen dank =)

    Who is balor anyway? :/
    Last edited by schweinsteiger; 2011-11-04 at 03:22 PM.

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