Which tank is more viable?

[Dethknell68]

Go with what feels good man, do that and your skill with either class will skyrocket, it's harder to get good at something you don't really like all too much. My vote is level them both then pick the main tank once your at 85.
If you are in a cutting edge "hardcore" guild, I'd honestly have to go with the warrior at the moment.

[Peldorain]

An Excellent Death Knight Tank can be an unstoppable force in Hard Modes, for example, twice I have seen the main tank in my guild solo heroic Ryolith down from around 5-600k HP, just by popping personals, and playing his class right. If a warrior could do that, I don't know, but having a Warrior myself I would lean to thats not possible, but then again warriors have a different playstyle that is based more around passive tanking, only popping personal Cooldowns when absolutely needed, while Death Knight tanking has a higher skill curve that requires more management of resources, and much better timing.

Also inb4 DEATHSTRIKE SPAM HURRR

[announced]

for ease of use id say a warrior. but for a challenge a dk..

although bears seem to be the best with their 40%+ dodge chance and their higher hp coming in 4.3

[hellboyy]

a perfect dk may be able to time his cds and deathstrikes every time but there's going to be a time when u got nothing left and u take a completely unimitigated hit that will hit u for like 80k+ on serious progression. shield tanks have a massive advantage cos they can achieve full combat table coverage. for dks mastery and avoidance works against each other.

when it comes to current content pally tanks bring the most to the table, raid wall is an amazing cd. warriors and bears are both good too. dks on the other hands are simply a liability cos they can get 2 shot no matter how good they r.

[Hanto]

I'll prefer my prot warrior over tanking with a DK any day. DKs don't have enough mitigation for my taste.

[Mawaru]

I played a prot warrior from Molten Core through Sunwell as a main, and then as an alt through all of Wrath. My guild transferred servers, and I only transferred my main at the time, a resto shaman.

During T11, we had been having issues with both tanks being flakes as far as attendance goes. So since tanking is a huge passion of mine in this game, I decided I wanted to MT for my guild again starting in Firelands. My choices were: level a warrior from 1 to 85, transfer my old prot warrior to the new server, or take a chance by making a DK since I hadn't played one before.

In the end, I chose to take a risk on being a DK tank, despite all the rumors (Yes, rumors, because I don't experience any of them) of DK tanks suffering spike damage very often, or DK tanks being a "2 button class", and a ton of other absurd things. And to be entirely honest, it was the best choice I've made in this game so far. I have never enjoyed tanking as much as I do now. DK tanking is just so interactive, and being able to do crazy things that other tanks can't do is part of the fun.

Crazy things like tanking heroic Rhyolith for 60+ seconds, by myself, after everyone else had died. Or beating half my guild's DPS on normal Rag (I'm Blood): http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/z...?s=3578&e=3972 or doing insane amounts of healing on heroic Baleroc: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=8301&e=8633

If you want to have fun, definitely play a DK, especially with the changes coming in 4.3. If you want to be viable for everything, and be bored while doing it, play a prot warrior.

[SilkforCalde]

A good DK is straight up a stronger tank. Finding a good DK tank is kind of challenging.

This isn't true at all. A prot warrior is better in literally every situation outside of Heroic Baleroc and that fight is so easy that it doesn't matter. Prot warriors do much more damage which is very important. Prot warriors have more utility and mobility which is very important on fights like Beth'tilac, Shannox, Rhyolith, Majordomo, Alysrazor, and Rag. A perfectly played prot warrior is a dramatically more valuable asset to a guild than a perfectly played death knight.

This is also true for PVP. Prot warriors make 10x as good of flag carriers as blood dks for the same reasons that prot warriors are better in PVE.

---------- Post added 2011-11-01 at 04:22 PM ----------

depends which one you prefer but in my opinion Dk's are better if you can play them right if you just want to faceroll a tank just roll a warrior and block cap and youll be fine regardless of what shiny buttons you push.

Prot warrior is the most challenging tank to play correctly.

---------- Post added 2011-11-01 at 04:29 PM ----------

I played a prot warrior from Molten Core through Sunwell as a main, and then as an alt through all of Wrath. My guild transferred servers, and I only transferred my main at the time, a resto shaman.

During T11, we had been having issues with both tanks being flakes as far as attendance goes. So since tanking is a huge passion of mine in this game, I decided I wanted to MT for my guild again starting in Firelands. My choices were: level a warrior from 1 to 85, transfer my old prot warrior to the new server, or take a chance by making a DK since I hadn't played one before.

In the end, I chose to take a risk on being a DK tank, despite all the rumors (Yes, rumors, because I don't experience any of them) of DK tanks suffering spike damage very often, or DK tanks being a "2 button class", and a ton of other absurd things. And to be entirely honest, it was the best choice I've made in this game so far. I have never enjoyed tanking as much as I do now. DK tanking is just so interactive, and being able to do crazy things that other tanks can't do is part of the fun.

Crazy things like tanking heroic Rhyolith for 60+ seconds, by myself, after everyone else had died. Or beating half my guild's DPS on normal Rag (I'm Blood): http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/z...?s=3578&e=3972 or doing insane amounts of healing on heroic Baleroc: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=8301&e=8633

If you want to have fun, definitely play a DK, especially with the changes coming in 4.3. If you want to be viable for everything, and be bored while doing it, play a prot warrior.

I have tried to DK tank many times, I tanked all of ICC back in Wrath on my DK, I tanked all of T11 several times... I retired my DK. It is easily the most boring tank. I don't care about healing as a tank. I have healers for when I want to heal. I prefer actually doing damage and prot warriors do a lot more damage than DKs. Linking Rag damage meters is a bit absurd and really throws in question your ability to have situational awareness. Do you realize that Rag puts a debuff on you that deals damage to him? This was almost 7% of your damage. You should also replace your mages. They are insanely bad. Like fresh 85 levels of bad. Your fury warrior is also shockingly bad and that shadow priest under the paladin tank? Replace him immediately. Those kinds of numbers would be bad for T11.

If you had to survive alone as a DK tank for 60 seconds in Heroic Rhyolith (I'd like to see a log on that, the stomp alone will kill you) then you should start absolutely replacing half your raid group. That's not a sign that DK tanks are good, that's a sign that your raid group is awful.

And the most crazy, fun thing that other tanks can't do? Heroic Leap. Nothing else is even remotely as fun or valuable.

[Mawaru]

Linking Rag damage meters is a bit absurd and really throws in question your ability to have situational awareness. Do you realize that Rag puts a debuff on you that deals damage to him? This was almost 7% of your damage.

Situational awareness? On Rag normal? lol

You are aware that as a tank you just stand there for 90% of the fight.. right? What is there to have "situational awareness" for outside of meteors in p3?

And uh.. yeah, I think I'd be aware of Burning Wound, since it's pretty much the only thing tanks care about throughout the whole fight.

You should also replace your mages. They are insanely bad. Like fresh 85 levels of bad. Your fury warrior is also shockingly bad and that shadow priest under the paladin tank? Replace him immediately. Those kinds of numbers would be bad for T11.

Thanks, I'll take all of that into consideration when you become the GM of our CASUAL guild that's still 6/7H on 25 man.

Just for clarification, the mages are socials / recruits that just started raiding with us again. Which fury warrior? The one who topped charts, or the one who died during that kill? lol?

And maybe you should research the shadow priest's gear before saying "lol he bad replace ok". That person just recently main swapped, because we had too many mages when he came back to raid with us again.

You should try having facts to base your arguments off of next time, it might help you look like less of a moron.

If you had to survive alone as a DK tank for 60 seconds in Heroic Rhyolith (I'd like to see a log on that, the stomp alone will kill you) then you should start absolutely replacing half your raid group. That's not a sign that DK tanks are good, that's a sign that your raid group is awful.

Maybe you're not aware of the DK skill called Anti-Magic Shell? Yeah, it pretty much negates the stomp damage. And yes, because being able to survive ON YOUR OWN for an extended period of time somehow doesn't equal that a tank class is good. World of Logs didn't parse it correctly, so you can't actually see my death time, but I was obviously there because I did damage until the very end (Yes, it was only an attempt, I didn't actually kill him): http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/s...?s=6496&e=6867

And yeah, the definite solution is to "replace half my raid group". Sorry, but unlike you who seems to come off as an elitist, I raid with my guild because I like the people I raid with. I've been raiding with them for a few years now, we're one of the few 25 man raid guilds on Sargeras, and we're "hardcore casual". We raid 3 nights a week, for 3 hours each night, and still get shit done (we're currently 6/7H). I could just as easily get into one of the guilds on my server that raids 5 nights a week and wipes on heroic Rag for 3 of those nights, but I'd rather stay with the people I enjoy raiding with and only raid 3 nights a week, than go out of my way just to get better pixels before everyone else does.

[Jinto]

It is much more difficult to play DK well enough to tank end game content (while it is relevant) than a warrior. Then again even with all the skill a warrior tank is still going to be better.

p.s. Lol at the comments on warrior being better because of "utility". A warrior tank is better for 1 reason, it has a shield.

[SilkforCalde]

I meant situational awareness in the knowledge that a large portion of your damage on that fight is not something you do, it is something that is done to you. I thought that was obvious. And no, on Rag normal burning wound is something that tanks get that increases their damage, the damage it does to you is negligible. What, you still two tank that fight on normal? *snort*

6 / 7 heroic is a big deal? I thought it was shockingly easy. Your meters proved that it is shockingly easy as you can carry at least 6 incredibly bad players. How would a fury warrior die on that fight? Replace him immediately.

Anti-magic shell is not NEARLY enough to survive stomps that come every couple seconds. Not even close. Your logs didn't prove anything. I bet you survived about 10 seconds and then went "ha I survived nearly a minute." Being able to survive on your own is not even remotely a sign of a good tank and is absolutely a sign of a bad raid group. Tanks don't solo bosses.

[Kazlehoff]

sorry to not choose one of the 2 options you put forth but.....


Druid.

Seriously we are Excellent tanks.


edit:

if that's not an option: Warrior. Dk's are the weakest of the 4 tank types in raiding environment.

[SilkforCalde]

It is much more difficult to play DK well enough to tank end game content (while it is relevant) than a warrior. Then again even with all the skill a warrior tank is still going to be better.

p.s. Lol at the comments on warrior being better because of "utility". A warrior tank is better for 1 reason, it has a shield.

Let me put this into an example that you can understand. Heroic Rag, phase 1. Trap on the ground. Can a DK pop it? Not unless he is an engineer. Can a warrior pop it? Well yeah. Charge, Intervene, Intercept, Heroic Leap... they all work. So, if you have a prot warrior on Heroic Rag you are already ahead of the game because now you can have your tank pop all the traps so your dps can just focus on pushing it into phase 2. Then Sons spawn. If you have a DK tank, he can contribute dps but since he can't stun, he's not valuable. A prot warrior (or paladin) here can AOE stun, they can charge a son and stun it, intercept and stun it, concussion blow it... then you make it to phase 3. Meteors. If your tank gets in an unlucky position, if it's a DK he has to run. A prot warrior can heroic leap out of the situation. That's just one fight.

You can have your prot warrior easily solo tank Heroic Alys, for example. Using intervene and heroic leap they can easily get to the worms, with revenge and cleave they can easily take down both hatchlings at once, now you can have an extra dps to kill the boss quicker.

Or, take Heroic Shannox. You have your prot warrior on Riplimb. Stacks aren't going to drop, all the traps were used on Rageface, you can just heroic leap away and save the day. DK can try to run but probably won't make it far enough. Or you can do the pro strategy and solo tank it where a warrior will have an inherent kiting advantage due to being able to hit both Riplimb and Shannox at once.

Prot warrior utility is huge.

[brown]

I suggest reading up on each class at EJ. Both are competent tanks but warriors are much easier to excel with.

[bloodwulf]

If you keep up with the current tank talk with blues, dks are in a sore spot right now. They are focused on active mitigation instead of passive like warriors/pallies. Most fights are tuned toward passive mitigation therefore making dks significantly more challenging in the same content.

[SilkforCalde]

If you keep up with the current tank talk with blues, dks are in a sore spot right now. They are focused on active mitigation instead of passive like warriors/pallies. Most fights are tuned toward passive mitigation therefore making dks significantly more challenging in the same content.

You mean "challenging for healers to deal with."

Not "challenging in terms of tanking difficulty."

DKs are easily the least challenging tank to play.

[Bassnectar]

Paladin > Warrior = Druid > Dk

[Ceria]

In a Raid Warriors are a far stronger choice. Whether this will change with the DK buffs remains to be seen.

In a 5man DK DK DK DK DK DK DK.

In outdated or outgeared content it's very hard for anyone to compete with a DK. My Warrior is in almost full Heroic FL gear but my normal mode DK is still my preference to tank a 5man with, simply because you can make up for group/heal failure. You can solo mobs, you can solo bosses, you can run ahead and start pulls while your Healer durps around.

So many times I'd do a 5man on my Warrior, ZG for example, just go in pull that first caster right off the bat and then remember I'm not on my DK so I actually need the healer to be there or it'll be dangerous (I can solo her but it takes some CDs and is dangerous) or the whole group'd die on Dakarra or whatever and I know I could just easily finish the fight myself if only I had DS...

[Stir]

You mean "challenging for healers to deal with."
Not "challenging in terms of tanking difficulty."
DKs are easily the least challenging tank to play.

Your logic is flawed.
DKs are the most challenging tanks to play in such a way that they are as easily healable as any other tank.
Let's face it: That's what tanking is mainly about: Making sure you survive. The better you are at that job, the better you are at tanking. (Well, that, and things like enemy positioning and such, of course.)
'DK's are easily the least challenging tank to play,' is what you say. But that is a silly statement if they also put the most strain on healers. The two statements contradict.
In any field other than survivability, all tanks are faceroll.

[Dalantia]

Prot warrior is the most challenging tank to play correctly.

This is the wrongest statement that has ever been wrong on these forums, or if it isn't, it's pretty damned close.

Protection Warrior is very easy to get the hang of, and to play correctly, once you've passed the hump of initial understanding; very little of the Warrior's (boss, not trash) mitigation is bound up their normal rotation (while their -20% attack speed and -10% physdam are, that's not unique to them - and they have an advantage over the DK in that department as well), their CDs are generally Obvious Use, and carrying a shield means that you can block cap, which gives you a flat out passive advantage over the DK.

Blood Death Knight has a significant amount of their mitigation as part of their normal threat management. This requires timing Death Strikes, gaming Runic Empowerment to ensure it doesn't refresh runes that are irrelevant to you, and maintaining diseases on all targets instead of just the primary. A DK with no runes and no RP has to grin and bear it or pop CDs (ERW or defensive) - a warrior with no rage (A tanking warrior with no rage is probably doing something wrong, anyway) still has his shield's mitigation. As a DK, you have to be aware of your diseases, your RP, your runes, the duration on each, and the damage you're taking, the best time for you to start DSing so you don't waste mitigation.

In order to maintain similar levels of damage intake, a Blood Death Knight has to expend significantly more effort in both learning how and keeping it up.

[Museigen]

A good DK is still worse than a half-good prot warrior that can reforge, enchant and gem correctly and use cooldowns somewhat good.

This person is correct.

There's your bad players who tank on a DK, and it's about the same as healing someone in cloth. You have your average DK tank that can probably handle normals pre-nerf, but may struggle. Then you have your great players who roll a DK and *can* tank everything in the game. In all situations an average warrior or paladin will be able to tank at least as good as the great DK, if not superior to one.

To sum it up, DK is far more intensive to play with far less margin for error and even when played perfectly are still susceptible to face-crushing burst damage that block-capped warriors and paladins do not suffer from.