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  1. #1
    Stood in the Fire Zolascius's Avatar
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    Question Endgame? [Video]



    I'd love your opinions on this guys. Gw2 uses a non-subscription model, so obviously it doesn't have to create the illusion of infinite content like WoW does with new raiding tiers - My question is, will you miss this kind of never-ending endgame? Do you think the dungeons will make up for no raids?

    Aside dungeons, are the open world dynamic events enough in terms of PvE content to keep the players who don't adore PvP busy? I can't really tell because i'm looking forward to the PvP aswell

    Though i'm a PvP fan I personally still think there will be enough to keep the PvE'rs playing, but are you guys that are just interested in the PvE side of the game worried about lack of content?

  2. #2
    Fluffy Kitten Bloodhunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zolascius View Post


    I'd love your opinions on this guys. Gw2 uses a non-subscription model, so obviously it doesn't have to create the illusion of infinite content like WoW does with new raiding tiers - My question is, will you miss this kind of never-ending endgame? Do you think the dungeons will make up for no raids?

    Aside dungeons, are the open world dynamic events enough in terms of PvE content to keep the players who don't adore PvP busy? I can't really tell because i'm looking forward to the PvP aswell

    Though i'm a PvP fan I personally still think there will be enough to keep the PvE'rs playing, but are you guys that are just interested in the PvE side of the game worried about lack of content?
    Like the first game, this game as well has many stories to be unfolded. The game at release will highly not be the end. End-Content will be through-out 1-80 as well. During upcoming patches we can expect the Fire Islands and the Crystal Desert as new area's to explore. There are still 4 other dragons to encounter. Cantha's story, and Elona's story as well and many things we might not even know about. So it's easy to say that the things we DO know we'd be expecting in the future, might take up to 4-5 years before even getting that far, they will keep adding more Dynamic Events into the game, not just around the lv 80 part. But also in the low level or mid-level part. Don't see this game like; "Hey I'm lv 80 now, let's ignore the world and do nothing but dungeons and pvp". Because it doesn't work this way. You can experience EVERYTHING like you should experience and that's what this game will make time-consuming and challenging.

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  3. #3
    High Overlord
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    I have a feeling that there will be a nice amount of unexplored or (player side) undocumented content before arenanet announces an expansion.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Zolascius View Post
    -

    I'd love your opinions on this guys. Gw2 uses a non-subscription model, so obviously it doesn't have to create the illusion of infinite content like WoW does with new raiding tiers - My question is, will you miss this kind of never-ending endgame? Do you think the dungeons will make up for no raids?

    Aside dungeons, are the open world dynamic events enough in terms of PvE content to keep the players who don't adore PvP busy? I can't really tell because i'm looking forward to the PvP aswell

    Though i'm a PvP fan I personally still think there will be enough to keep the PvE'rs playing, but are you guys that are just interested in the PvE side of the game worried about lack of content?
    It's not an illusion. Gw2 has the option to sell content (expansion, patches, in-game store content) frequently, where in WoW you pay $15 a month and hope for some decent content every now and then. Gw2 is able to offer content and perhaps new professions/races/etc as well. It's up to you to decide whether you think it is worth it or not, which is an incentive for Arenanet to offer the best content. I don't know if Arenanet has said anything about this yet, but it's ofc still possible for them to implement 5+ mans in future expansions as well. This is no reason to be afraid of micro-transaction inbalance or high costs, just a matter of choice!

    The B2P model actually gives the playerbase some power, where you may end up paying for something you don't even want in a F2P model.

    Note: Anet stated that they don’t plan to continue with the standalone expansion model.
    Last edited by Ghostrider; 2011-11-01 at 01:47 PM.

  5. #5
    WvWvW will never get old ;P
    A man chooses, a Slave obeys. OBEY! - Andrew Ryan, Bioshock

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaelkyri View Post
    WvWvW will never get old ;P
    I sign under this statement

    It really depends on what one like, but WvWvW is never boring. Those who never experienced RvR in Warhammer Online, will taste it in GW2 in much bigger scale, with much better graphic and much better optimization (no server lag, no hardware lag). That's one of endgame routes. And trust me, most of U will find it awesome. And if one gets bored with it and will like to do smth on a smaller scale, like arena or battlegrounds (scenarios), one will have these options too These are another part of the endgame.

    Also, remember that endgame in GW2 starts at level 1. Not at max level. So I am guessing that we all are gonna be very busy doing everything in every possible way, just like almost everyone playing WoW now...is alting like crazy, doing dungons, raids, pvp. It's gonna be much better in GW2
    Last edited by Slaughty8; 2011-11-01 at 04:58 PM. Reason: more arguments

  7. #7
    WvWvW in DAoC only got old once the graphics made your eyes bleed... but that took like a LONG time (6-7years? when I quit).

    This is the single best feature I see coming in GW2 - not to say that the game is lacking in awesomeness either.

    Warhammer Online was a sham compared to RvR in DAoC - WvWvW seems to be a spiced of version of RvR that I hope has the recipe of win.

  8. #8
    Certain dynamic events (think the Shatterer, Tequatl) actually require you to have at least ten people to even start it off in the first place, so I don't see why people say there's no endgame. Sure, it's not instanced, but that's a good thing! There's no more pugging in the game! (Or, well, it's done automatically, but you get my point.) The content is literally there for everyone to find!

    You ask for more? Then come, traveler, to the Whispering Deep, where only the mad walk.
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  9. #9
    Also, about puging - GW2 PvE seems to be pug-friendly, even more then that...made for pugs, which is great.

  10. #10
    The Lightbringer Durzlla's Avatar
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    Idk why so many old wow players think endgame= raiding, and if it requires less then10 people it's easy... 10+mans were stupid because they weren't hard, and all it was was a waiting game on finding enough competent people to do anything... An from the sounds of it 5mans in GW2 are gonna be legit! I've heard that in one of the explorable versions the dev team was showing off they couldn't even finish the second boss because they kept whipping!

    Btw even if dynamic events and the explorable versions of the instances end up not being good enough tere always wvwvw where I can put the laughter in slaughter >=D!
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

  11. #11
    My question is, will you miss this kind of never-ending endgame? Do you think the dungeons will make up for no raids?
    I believe this to be the REAL gamble Anet is planning and the true risk of the game. To some this will be appealing, to others-- not so much. Anet is splitting their potential audience right down this divide I feel.

    As long term players/guilds are held together by progressive orientated content. People like to feel as though they upgrading or working toward a communal goal; doing so with mates is that much more fun.

    Of course, it's all one big gerbil wheel in these MMOs. But the illusion raid Z is gonna be that much more awesome than raid Y was is what keeps the "one more piece..." hook of an MMO going.

    I want to see what sort of gerbil wheels Anet comes up with as a replacement that can hold together 50+ player plus guilds with robust raiding/grouping intentions over 4, 6, 7 years as Everquest, Final Fantasy 11 and World of Warcraft are able. Open world zerg content wears thin.

  12. #12
    Scarab Lord Blznsmri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    I believe this to be the REAL gamble Anet is planning and the true risk of the game. To some this will be appealing, to others-- not so much. Anet is splitting their potential audience right down this divide I feel.

    As long term players/guilds are held together by progressive orientated content. People like to feel as though they upgrading or working toward a communal goal; doing so with mates is that much more fun.

    Of course, it's all one big gerbil wheel in these MMOs. But the illusion raid Z is gonna be that much more awesome than raid Y was is what keeps the "one more piece..." hook of an MMO going.

    I want to see what sort of gerbil wheels Anet comes up with as a replacement that can hold together 50+ player plus guilds with robust raiding/grouping intentions over 4, 6, 7 years as Everquest, Final Fantasy 11 and World of Warcraft are able. Open world zerg content wears thin.
    The Gerbil wheel in the game being enjoyable...
    Quote Originally Posted by SW:TOR
    Jokerseven - Kinetic Combat Shadow - Praxeum - Canderous Ordo
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    I believe this to be the REAL gamble Anet is planning and the true risk of the game. To some this will be appealing, to others-- not so much. Anet is splitting their potential audience right down this divide I feel.

    As long term players/guilds are held together by progressive orientated content. People like to feel as though they upgrading or working toward a communal goal; doing so with mates is that much more fun.

    Of course, it's all one big gerbil wheel in these MMOs. But the illusion raid Z is gonna be that much more awesome than raid Y was is what keeps the "one more piece..." hook of an MMO going.

    I want to see what sort of gerbil wheels Anet comes up with as a replacement that can hold together 50+ player plus guilds with robust raiding/grouping intentions over 4, 6, 7 years as Everquest, Final Fantasy 11 and World of Warcraft are able. Open world zerg content wears thin.
    I was going to say the exact same thing. A lot of the content of GW2 looks totally sweet, but I'm more of a PVE player than PVP. I like the feeling of progression and accomplishment you get when you finally beat content that some developer somewhere set up against you. I know it's the same thing every "tier" in most of these games, but still, the gerbil-wheel mechanism is pretty fun. It keeps me occupied with responses that I enjoy.

    My one fear about GW2 is that it will be so pvp-centric that there won't be much to do outside of all the pvp content (relatively speaking). Which is ok, I'll pvp too, but I want to like everything about the game. One of the reason's I'm very blah about WoW at the moment is the decline of pve (for me), and I don't want to see the same thing happen in a new game. Here's hoping ANet doesn't let me down.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Kadeth View Post
    My one fear about GW2 is that it will be so pvp-centric that there won't be much to do outside of all the pvp content (relatively speaking). Which is ok, I'll pvp too, but I want to like everything about the game. One of the reason's I'm very blah about WoW at the moment is the decline of pve (for me), and I don't want to see the same thing happen in a new game. Here's hoping ANet doesn't let me down.
    No worries, Gw2 will be all about the PvE as well. It will probably be 50:50 as discussed in another thread.

    *searching*

    There it is, http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...a-focus-in-GW2

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostrider View Post
    No worries, Gw2 will be all about the PvE as well. It will probably be 50:50 as discussed in another thread.

    *searching*

    There it is, http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...a-focus-in-GW2
    Yea, that is the other thing that worries me. I have ZERO PVP interest. If half the activity cycle in endgame is PVP, I am not supporting Anet or GW2. Since there would literally only be half the game that interests me.

    These are the x-factors for me: can Anet provide a steady stream of robust group based instances or make DEs of such consequence that they don't devolve to mindless zerg-a-thons.

    I think it's pretty interesting to look at Rift in the context of GW2. Rift's DEs are trivial and are lackluster zerg-a-thons. But Trion have been on the money in delivering 20 man raids, 10 man raids and 5 man modes in the 6-7 months they been around. There have only been... 3 content x.0s when they didn't deliver a new instance or group based open world event... maybe?

    Though I enjoyed GW1- the game struggled to hold my interests because at the end of the day GW1 became a SP rpg with a chat room. Guilds were either ultra casual or PVP focused. I rarely found anything in-between because the game just didn't encourage guilds sticking together or progressing as a community as WoW and EQ2 did at the time.

    GW1 was very niche. I wonder if GW2 will shake that off...

  16. #16
    Mechagnome Fernling306's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    I believe this to be the REAL gamble Anet is planning and the true risk of the game. To some this will be appealing, to others-- not so much. Anet is splitting their potential audience right down this divide I feel.

    As long term players/guilds are held together by progressive orientated content. People like to feel as though they upgrading or working toward a communal goal; doing so with mates is that much more fun.

    Of course, it's all one big gerbil wheel in these MMOs. But the illusion raid Z is gonna be that much more awesome than raid Y was is what keeps the "one more piece..." hook of an MMO going.

    I want to see what sort of gerbil wheels Anet comes up with as a replacement that can hold together 50+ player plus guilds with robust raiding/grouping intentions over 4, 6, 7 years as Everquest, Final Fantasy 11 and World of Warcraft are able. Open world zerg content wears thin.
    I agree with you completely and it will be very interesting to see how it turns out.

  17. #17
    Scarab Lord Blznsmri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    Yea, that is the other thing that worries me. I have ZERO PVP interest. If half the activity cycle in endgame is PVP, I am not supporting Anet or GW2. Since there would literally only be half the game that interests me.
    That's pretty much the same in WoW and Rift (I think)...


    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    These are the x-factors for me: can Anet provide a steady stream of robust group based instances or make DEs of such consequence that they don't devolve to mindless zerg-a-thons. I think it's pretty interesting to look at Rift in the context of GW2. Rift's DEs are trivial and are lackluster zerg-a-thons. But Trion have been on the money in delivering 20 man raids, 10 man raids and 5 man modes in the 6-7 months they been around. There have only been... 3 content x.0s when they didn't deliver a new instance or group based open world event... maybe?
    Patches for guild wars 2 will most likely consist of major content stuffs... new zones, dungeons and events... with minor patches being there to correct balance and bug issues as they arise.


    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    GW1 was very niche. I wonder if GW2 will shake that off...
    7 million accounts made and 2 million consistently active accounts does not feel very niche-like to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by SW:TOR
    Jokerseven - Kinetic Combat Shadow - Praxeum - Canderous Ordo
    Ce'lia - Combat Sentinel - Praxeum - Canderous Ordo
    Sentinel PVE Basics for the two Specs that matter

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Blznsmri View Post
    That's pretty much the same in WoW and Rift (I think)...
    At least in WoW each option has so much content (or grind if you want to call it that) so you will never really be finished if you choose to dedicate yourself to one of them. I used to be a hardcore raider, and then there was just so much to do that I didn't have any time for serious PvP, and then I got into heavy arenaing so I didn't have time to hardcore PvE.

    From what I have heard, the endgame PvP reminds me a bit of Wintergrasp or BGs, and I havent really heard anything about what the hardcore PvEers will have to do in the endgame. A lot of people here say that the game is a journey and not a race to the max level, while that may be true it's still the developers faults if the players feel like there is no real motivation to continue at 80

  19. #19
    Scarab Lord Blznsmri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ninji View Post
    At least in WoW each option has so much content (or grind if you want to call it that) so you will never really be finished if you choose to dedicate yourself to one of them. I used to be a hardcore raider, and then there was just so much to do that I didn't have any time for serious PvP, and then I got into heavy arenaing so I didn't have time to hardcore PvE.
    7-13 bosses doesn't feel like alot... and with pvp all you get is a new season of gear and a ladder reset.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninji View Post
    From what I have heard, the endgame PvP reminds me a bit of Wintergrasp or BGs, and I havent really heard anything about what the hardcore PvEers will have to do in the endgame. A lot of people here say that the game is a journey and not a race to the max level, while that may be true it's still the developers faults if the players feel like there is no real motivation to continue at 80
    Dungeon Hardmodes. Elite Events and the rest of the world that you didn't experience while leveling.
    Quote Originally Posted by SW:TOR
    Jokerseven - Kinetic Combat Shadow - Praxeum - Canderous Ordo
    Ce'lia - Combat Sentinel - Praxeum - Canderous Ordo
    Sentinel PVE Basics for the two Specs that matter

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Blznsmri View Post
    That's pretty much the same in WoW and Rift (I think)...
    Not sure if you interpret half the content being PVP in the same manner as I do, but disagree if you do.

    I have done 3 PVP matches in Rift. For a quest line. Like... 5 months ago. Never once had to turn to PVP in Rift. The PVE content has been steady and consistent; 3-4 nights a week of raiding 20 and 10 mans and daily 5 mans. I never PVP'd in Warcraft either over ~6 years. I did... 1 or 2 battleground matches. Maybe? PVE'd all the way with no lack of PVE content.

    A handful of dungeons in GW2 ala expert modes in Rift doesn't equal 32 dungeons at all. That's marketing.

    Still on the fence about GW2 delivering robust and fast content updates for PVE. There have only been 2 months or so in which Rift hasn't had a sizable PVE update. Trion set a new standard for MMO content additions. I hope SWTOR and GW2 can keep up.

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