Holy Radiance

[Venism]

Wait... we aren't? You mean I can't just DS spam my way to the top of the DPS charts? Damn =[

On topic: I have mixed feelings about them basically removing HR from prot and ret. I know that it will probably make them easier to balance towards their roles, but it also further kills the paladin-ness of the specs in my opinion. I like having HR; sure it might not be the strongest heal, but saying you shouldn't use it because it's weak for us is stupid. Why use holy wrath at all? It does shit for damage.

Well just imagine a shadow priest using prayer of healing or a feral druid doing wild growth to help with healing. I guess its a little different because they cant dps while doing that but there really isn't a need to dps to do any healing except in pvp situations.I don't really think HR will be the difference between life and death in an arena, especially when its quite easy to go oom without even using HR in arenas. I guess its nice to have, but as far as raids go you should never need to use it, otherwise the healing is too low. There are some situations on my enhance shammy or ret pally where I would use an insta heal to help out a fellow dying raider, but holy radiance is not enough to save anyone.

Also on the paladins being tank healers never really made much sense to me. The point of tank healing isn't to wait for them to reach 30% hp then quickly bring them back up, its being able to keep them above 80-ish% the whole fight. druids have hots, shamans have dmg reduction, and priests are priests. What paladins can do it spend a big portion of their mana and get of a couple big heals on a dying raider. Putting beacon on the tank and healing others is a much more effective way to use a pally healer.

[Nillo]

Edit: Also, been awhile since I've seen ya nillo. You just permanently switch to holy or somethin after wrath?

Yeah .... I really liked holy in the beta while on the other hand ret just felt weak and the mechanics bad so I decided to go for Holy with the release. And just looking at some of the ret topics here it doesn't seem to have improved much.

[Fredzilla]

Yeah .... I really liked holy in the beta while on the other hand ret just felt weak and the mechanics bad so I decided to go for Holy with the release. And just looking at some of the ret topics here it doesn't seem to have improved much.

No, I would say that it hasn't. Hope springs eternal and whatnot for MoP, but only time will tell.

@Venism - If there's no need in raids for things like HR from dps, what is the point of healthstones? Why does ret still have LoH? Why can we use WoG and even have talents for it? Saying that the only reason to use it is because healing is too low is stupid reasoning. Given the opportunity, why wouldn't you do as much as you can to make fights easier and quicker? It doesn't always have to be the difference between life and death, otherwise healers might as well treat every fight like Chimaeron. Helping is helping, and it's never a bad thing. If you think it's too weak, why waste the CD on holy wrath, which is a weak piece of crap AND costs a good chunk of mana?

[dragconus]

We had a initiate healer like you, he didnt last long in the guild.

You play a role and you dont start doing other things then what you are supposed to, that would be the road to failure. Its all scripted.

i can heal up to 18k on beth in Fl still have at least 20% of my mana and keep everything up that i can...and my point was that we can do other then tank heal..even now . It's not my fault your healers suck

[Venism]

I think skills like LoH or soulstones make things a lot more interesting. I'm just saying that HR in its current form doesn't do much and getting rid of it doesn't either. It ticks for less than 1k. As far as prot, you only stack during rag seed phases and sometimes during domo. Holy wrath on the other hand is more used for the stun. Its just used in dps rotations because there's a lot of free time in the ret rotation when your not popping cd's. Maybe I'm too busy looking at the current teir of raiding where I can reforge all of my spirit into something else as holy and never have to worry about mana for heroics. When blizz took out dampen magic no one really complained even when it helped mitigate magic damage. (I'm pretty sure the healing reduction was less than the magic protection by a very small amount) I'm not saying that its useless to do, i'm just saying that getting rid of it wont hurt anyone if they get rid of it. holy wrath on the other hand would hurt a few things, like adds on rag.

[patrixlul]

1. You SHOULD be dpsing during the Alys ground phase.

2. If you've got TV as a Holy paladin congrats on breaking the game?

3. Sure, go ahead, you can have TV as long as I can have Holy Shock added to my toolkit.

Anyway Captain Hyperbole, my point wasn't that Ret and Prot are doomed, but it is a definite nerf to their survivability. Also if you were unaware HR - especially with wings and a decent amount of haste and in the case of Prot stacks of vengeance - can be a very powerful heal. Roughly equal to 10 to 15% or more of the health of the paladin casting it.

And the Holy Shock thing does raise a very good point about ret survivability, which is pretty much when they changed art of war (or was it crusade?) to be only free exorcisms rather than free flashes of light it really took the wind out of the sails of paladin self-healing.

No my point is HR isn't supposed to be a tool for prot and ret. Holy can use crusader strike, but it hits so weak it's pointless. How would you feel if they nerfed CS for ret to buff it for holy? That would be pretty ridiculous wouldn't it? You guys still HAVE all the same heals in your toolbox, and a single heal from PTR HR will probably equal more life than the live HR. "Wahh...but then we have to stop and cast to heal ourselves", well hey guess what, that's what healers are for. And if you're arguing for it's PVP use, well I wouldn't even bother responding to such a terrible reason to leave it as is. I also play ret often enough. In Firelands there's maybe one fight where it's genuinely useful and that would be Homo...if you don't do all cat phases which is stupid anyway. So really there's no reason to use it unless you have terrible healers.

And I do dps during ground phase, HS/exo spam like a boss, I do like 9k dps n junk.

[4KhazModan]

Right. Taking away a mindless AOE heal from a DPS and turning it into another tool in a healer's toolkit is just... dastardly. How dare they. Blizz hates Paladins.

Well, it wasn't useless for prot or ret either. Nice to have to help allieviate the healing on aoe heavy phases. Like Chim, or I'll stack with the group when I'm not tanking beth on p2 and pop it.

[Tatsu]

Well, it wasn't useless for prot or ret either. Nice to have to help allieviate the healing on aoe heavy phases. Like Chim, or I'll stack with the group when I'm not tanking beth on p2 and pop it.

You can still pop it, you just have to cast it now. Like a druid switching forms to cast tranquility.

[dragconus]

Well, it wasn't useless for prot or ret either. Nice to have to help allieviate the healing on aoe heavy phases. Like Chim, or I'll stack with the group when I'm not tanking beth on p2 and pop it.

...yeah.....dg and call it a day