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  1. #61
    Mechagnome
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    I hate the BH example, I left 3 straight bh groups last lock out, because they kept over stacking my class. Then they have the balls to whisper me and complain about me leaving group.

    As far as reserves go, it's pretty much the same. Don't join them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Slummish View Post
    I don't get it. I've gone AFK a million times to blow my bf so he'd get off my back and let me raid. What's the problem here? People have sex...

  2. #62
    Its fine if its only an item or two, or if its something alone the lines of the fragments needed for the Ulduar mace or Shadowmourne. If you don't like it than simply don't join, or better yet form your own group.

  3. #63
    The Insane det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thaede View Post
    I don't join loot reserved groups. Everyone puts the same amount of effort into the raid, everyone should have a fair shot at the loot.
    Actually I disagree. Already in our guild, officers / raidleaders and assisstants put more effort into it. Effort in this context means time and knowledege.

    While people log when they please and take their bio in the time until the raid, officers are online earlier to do invites, sort the raid, discuss what boss is on the menue. They will then proceed to refresh ppls memory on tactics, are often the first at the raid location to summon, will bring possibly guild mats with them / distribute them. Our officers take care of bank funds by handling mats and BoEs on the auction house, set up and maintain dkp and the website and indeed are the ones who pay mostly for hosting and vent.

    In a pug, the one who invites also has his fair share of work to do to keep a PuG raid organized....maybe even more in a PuG than a guild.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    One cause is a cognitive bias called projection bias. Essentially living inside your own head your entire life makes it exceedingly difficult to understand how others do not also live your same life, think your same thoughts, and hold your same beliefs. In many cases it's quite frustrating to try to empathize and understand why you yourself may not be the center of the universe, which generally results in one 'acting out' in various ways.
    So, in short: the internet.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Krid View Post
    Go make your own group with your own rules if you don't like it.
    I love replies like this. Don't like it GTFO...hurrdurr!

    I think the point of this thread is how do you feel about people being douchey and setting up groups/ raids in a manner that benefit them the most instead of what would be fair and reasonable. See it all too often and yes, I don't like it, so I don't join these raids.

    Ultimately it's their raid and they can run it however they like. Doesn't make it any less douchey though.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Prag View Post
    Premeditated murder will get your more time than just killing someone on the spot. Just saying.
    What a poor metaphor, did you learn to write from Stephanie Meyer?

    Reserving loot is like telling your friend "if you jump off of this cliff, you will die."
    Ninja looting is getting mad at your friend for admitting she had an affair with your boyfriend while standing next to a cliff and you push her off.
    Bringing your friend to the cliff with the intent of pushing her off is premeditated murder. Ninja looting can be and often is premeditated.

    I don't usually join groups that don't MS roll boes. However, I am not totally put off by the raid leader/host guild taking boes that aren't needed for main spec. Shards/embers on reserve dont' bother me, either. It took untiljust last week for our 6/7 H alt 10 man run to get their first legendary, spreading out embers doesn't really accomplish anything. Generally I don't join reserved loot runs if the raid leader appears to be incompetent or inexperienced (ie going to be carried and also reserving loot).

    I run 4-6 10 man firelands pugs a week (yes, I'm a 'no-lifer') Dealing with pugs is annoying at times, considering how progressed I am on my main. I'm also quite skilled with most of my alts. If I ever had the inkling to reserve something, I wouldn't think twice. I'd still fill because people know me and enjoy my runs. If I get tired of losing the same-old thing or really, really want something, I DO feel entitled to take it, with fair warning of course. I spend good time armory checking and hand-holding to make my runs successful and popular.

  6. #66
    Seriously... just... start your own group.

    If you know what its like to raid lead a herpderp pug then you would appreciate the fact that the RL really does deserve whatever he gets out of it.

    If you need some BIS BoE start your own run or join another.

    The fact that this is even a debate makes me lose faith in humanity.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by glowzone View Post
    Let's put it this way...
    You see:"lfm black temple, glaives reserved."
    You're playing a warlock, who can't even use the glaives.
    Oh, how many times have people screamed that at me..


    Anyhow, back on topic..

    The only ones that have a problem with lootreserved runs are people who are too lazy to organize their own runs and want the deal on their terms.
    Anyone that have organized runs for years knows the pain, and althought i refuse to raidlead, i support it.
    Someone is leading a pug that i want to join but loot that i want is reserved? I can either: A) Not join it B) Join it
    If i act on A) then i can A1) Wait for another pug that doesnt reserve the item i want or A2) Make my own run.
    In case of B): B1) hope for a different item B) hope for a random achievement that i want B3) just troll around since reset is coming up
    Last edited by Gravath; 2011-11-01 at 05:22 PM.

  8. #68
    Pit Lord aztr0's Avatar
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    Stop complaining. If you want to do loot your way, make your own group. If you don't want to do that, then deal with it by either not joining or not caring.

  9. #69
    Honestly, mate, I'm tired of people who complain and disrespect people who create their own raids.

    I like to run old content for legendaries, cool gear and just fun. When I don't run with real life friends I find random players, but whenever I announce in the trade channel that I'm looking for players and clearly state (to be polite and avoid misunderstanding) that I reserve certain pieces I always get a number of whispers, or even open flames in the trade channel, about how stupid I am.

    These are players who lack the will to do something themselves. They don't achieve anything in game, they're mediocre normal mode raiders AT BEST or "10 games per week gladiators". They are lazy and pathetic. If they are not having things handed on a silver plate as they expect and believe they deserve, everyone else is wrong. And you just can't argue or reason with them. I wonder what these people become in life. I don't have many hopes for them, honestly.

    A good quote for them is: Wise men speak because they have something to say. Fools speak only because they have to say something.

    You make a raid. You wear the crown. You're the boss. You set the rules. You're God, uncontested. Everyone who thinks that isn't fair: Get the fuck off.

  10. #70
    The Insane smrund's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thaede View Post
    I don't join loot reserved groups. Everyone puts the same amount of effort into the raid, everyone should have a fair shot at the loot.
    Problem solved.

    It's not ninja looting because the RL is telling you up front what he's going to take. Ninja looting is all about stealing when you expected to have a fair shot at things.
    Quote Originally Posted by Masark View Post
    People in cars cause accidents. Accidents in cars cause people.
    Sometimes life gives you lemons, other times life gives you boobies. Life is always better with more boobies.
    Blizzard removed my subscription from WoD's features, it'll be added sometime later.
    And thus I give you: MALE contraception!

  11. #71
    A ninja in that sense is generally someone who gave the impression of fair loot distribution when they intended otherwise.
    While there may be other names for someone who reserves loot, they are not a ninja if such a reservation has been made clear in advance.
    Selfish, arrogant, self-inflated sense of worth etc are all valid, but ninja is not.

    Running a raid does not automatically justify that behaviour however, especially old content which you outgear and outlevel.
    It is no longer current content, and therefore your "leadership" contribution is rather diminished and not worthy of denying someone else a fair chance at a reward for their contribution.
    Last edited by ComputerNerd; 2011-11-01 at 05:09 PM.

  12. #72
    Mechagnome bloodwulf's Avatar
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    Raid Leader makes the raid, raid leader makes the rules. As long as everything is stated upfront it does not matter. I played on Illidan and the hosted runs are generally guarenteed full clears, so you should be happy to have a shot at going. If you don't like it, join a raid guild and raid with them.
    "Allons-y!" - David Tennant - 10th Doctor.
    "Bow ties are cool." - Matt Smith - 11th Doctor.

  13. #73
    I should have clarified on the "Guild Hosted".

    They require 7/7 achievement.

    That's not a carry. That's an assist.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    Stupid or not - if somebody sets up a run, they may announce loot rules up front. Hell, even our guild will advance loot to tanks and/or healers first in certain situations and overwrite roll through loot council.

    Yes, you may think it is stupid and you are ofc free to not join such a run.
    I know, and i dont think anyone here is suggeting that it shouldnt be allowed. I know its my choice, or the Ops one to join or not.

    Taking away those obvious things, guilds runs are different, they are oreganized between people that mostly know each other, so giving preferences is accepted mostly because of that.

    Now, lets think a little of this and not just throw obvious phrases all around.

    Blizzard has put those BiS BoEs thete, the raid leader probably knows some of those BoEs are BiS for some classes (if not i have serious doubt about the future of the PUG). That raid leader should at least give a chance to those classes/spec whose BIS is a BoE to roll on it, from my point of view.

    Again, cinders are going to obviously be reserved.

  15. #75
    It's not ninja, but it is lame IMO especially if coupled with things like link 7/7. It's like seeing a job advertised that wants a list of advanced skills yet the pay is terrible.

  16. #76
    He's telling you upfront what's going to take. It's not ninja looting. It's pirate looting! YAARRRR!!!

  17. #77
    Over 9000! Gheld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerebrate View Post
    I hate the BH example, I left 3 straight bh groups last lock out, because they kept over stacking my class. Then they have the balls to whisper me and complain about me leaving group.

    As far as reserves go, it's pretty much the same. Don't join them.
    It's already like a 1 in 50 chance that the piece you are looking for will drop from BH to begin with. So if I'm leading I kick people if I hear "wah there's too many ____". Esepcially since the people who QQ like this are just looking for easy offspec pieces of a spec they never play anyways. There's plenty of people running class runs of it.

  18. #78
    The Patient Weiland's Avatar
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    If you don't like it form your own group. In Rift we do this all the time, its our lure or it is content you wouldn't normally see this content. So just be happy you are getting to see this content.

  19. #79
    nin·ja
       [nin-juh] Show IPA
    noun, plural -ja, -jas. (often initial capital letter)
    a member of a feudal Japanese society of mercenary agents, highly trained in martial arts and stealth (ninjutsu), who were hired for covert purposes ranging from espionage to sabotage and assassination.

    Someone stating that a piece of loot is reserved while the raid group is forming, does not fit this definition. Its all fair game, If someone says "X is reserved because I really need it" then its fair game, everyone in the group knows he will take it and do not have a problem with it. Now, if it turns into something like "ABCDEFGHI are all Reserved" then thats getting excessive.

    Oh and people reserving BoEs and Embers are normal, most of the people that do that are trying to get more stuff for their guild, not trying to put some gold in their back pocket.


    Sig by: Arhiana <3

  20. #80
    Dreadlord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prag View Post
    I've started to see a few obnoxious trends on US_Illidan lately. I'll use this to rant a bit and see if it sparks a fun debate. Share your thoughts, criticize mine, whatever!

    What I see in Trade: "LFM fresh FL clear. BOE's & Embers on reserve. Link ilvl and 7/7 achieve."

    What it really means: "Please come make me money. Oh, your BiS items are BoE? Too bad."
    It sounds more like this is a partial guild run and they are tired of giving away BoEs only to see them end up in the AH a few hours later when some pugtard rolled against a guildie who could actually use them. Same with embers. You don't like it start your own. Keeping BoEs in guild prevents the flakes from coming in who only are looking for easy gold.

    What I see in Trade: "<Guild Name Here> Hosted 7/7 FL clear. BOE's on Reserve."

    What it really means: "I don't know what the word "host" implies."
    it means just like I said above, a guild is hosting a few pugs for a full FL clear. They are being generous enough letting you even roll on tier drops. Why do you think you're entitled to everything just cause you show up?

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