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  1. #1

    Is every rotation as complicated as the Monks?

    Since WoW has not much to offer and I can pay my subscription with gold, I was trying FF14 out and I like it a lot.
    Being the noob in a new MMO feels awkwardly good. However, today I was asking myself if I want to play this game anymore. I was quite shocked by the Monks rotation.

    I'm Level 52 now. Another Monk in a level 50 raid told me to learn my new abilities, since I haven't done the class quests since level 35 (either I missed it or nobody told me). Anyway, I learned the new abilities and obviously had to look up the new rotation, which was kinda easy to this point.

    Looking at some video guides and reddit posts like this... https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...o_i_made_this/

    ... I lost all faith in learning this class. Rotations like this are nothing compared to rotations in WoW ... not even close. So my question is: Does every class in FF14 have this kind of hard rotations or is Monk an exception?

  2. #2
    Ah, another one of those made-to-be-confusing infographic pictures. I always hated the NIN one, but at least that one was intentionally a joke. FFXIV community seems to love these things, though.

    In reality, the monk rotation isn't even hard or complicated. It mostly boils down to keeping your three buffs/debuffs up and then using the higher potency non-buff/debuff applying stuff, and then repeating. In other words, the upper right hand corner of that picture is really all that matters to you. (Well, and using your off GCD stuff on cooldown, but just about every class does that)

    The rest is managing cooldowns based on the nature of the fight and such, just like any other class in any other MMO.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    In reality, the monk rotation isn't even hard or complicated.
    Ok, thanks

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cromatus View Post
    ... I lost all faith in learning this class. Rotations like this are nothing compared to rotations in WoW ... not even close. So my question is: Does every class in FF14 have this kind of hard rotations or is Monk an exception?
    All the DPS classes use a lot of abilities. Don't feel overwhelmed, though. Many of those abilities are not on the GCD and used in conjunction with other abilities. If you're having problems with this try setting up a bar that just has these off-gcd abilities on it, in order of what you use them in your opener and just get used to keeping them on CD. You can min/max it more later as you get more comfortable with the class.

    The more important thing to learn, especially on a monk, is keeping up three stacks of greased lightning - managing these stacks is a lot more important than anything else (outside of not dying, ofc!)

  5. #5
    Do healers also use that many abilities?
    Last edited by Cromatus; 2016-03-06 at 01:34 AM.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Cromatus View Post
    Do healers also use that many abilities?
    Healers have a wide variety of abilities but there is no "rotation" but a "what do I use in X situation", you can also weave in damage abilities on your down time but it's mostly spam 2 or 3 abilities.
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  7. #7
    Monk probably has the easiest rotation from all dps classes, don't be mislead by the reddit infographics, they are easier than what they appear to. Healers use quite a lot of abilities as well, in general this game is not like wow where the rotations have been simplified so much you barely need to press more than 4 buttons. However, if you play WHM you can pretty much just spam Medica II and call it a day...

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    Ah, another one of those made-to-be-confusing infographic pictures.
    You find that infographic confusing?

    Ok...

    @OP strictly speaking, Bov is mostly right in that your rotation will largely based on the priority shown in the upper right hand corner, and the "your rotation will mostly look like this" is what you'll be doing most of the time. For now, it's what you should be focusing on.

    The other line details what a lot of damage dealers use, called an opener, and is designed to get the most out of your buffs and debuffs and damage cool downs at the very start of the fight. For this one, the bottom row are your abilities that are on the global cool down, while the raised abilities are those that off the global cool down and meant to be woven between the abilities that are on the global cool down. As the name suggests, you pretty much only worry about this at the start of a fight (you do it exactly once as pictured in a fight), and after that it's the priority and rotation in the right hand corner, with various abilities used either in the right situation (for example, when to use Doton over Raiton in a fight as a Ninja, or for the Monk switching to Fists of Earth just before a big hit then back to Fists of Fire) or as soon as they are available again.

    At your level, I don't even think you have all the abilities needed for the opener, so don't worry about it. Once you hit level cap, though, you can start practicing it and work on adding it to your rotation in boss fights.
    Last edited by Berethos08; 2016-03-06 at 02:32 AM.

  9. #9
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    Every class dpswise and tanks have a rotation that you have to put some effort into. I'd say bard and blm are the easiest imo.
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  10. #10
    Rotations look complicated for most classes, but they just take getting used to, they're not that hard honestly once you understand how they all flow together.

    That said, IMO Monk has the most buttons to hit and things to do to maximize their DPS over other classes. Makes it very interesting class to play.

    Play what you like, don't let those infographics and guides discourage you. You'll get the hang of it =)
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  11. #11
    Rotations aint that hard although they do take some time to master.
    What is hard though is pulling some of them off throughout a fight and that requires both rotation knowledge and fight knowledge.
    For example in some fights with downtime you can't maintain the DRGss blood of the dragon at almost 100% uptime unless you know when and how to use/refresh it throughout the fight. If its a fight where you never stop dpsing though it aint that tough.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Berethos08 View Post
    You find that infographic confusing?

    Ok...
    I don't really see the point of your snipe there, but you'll note that I didn't say I found it confusing. I said they were made to be confusing. Which may or may not be intentional on the part of the people who make them, but just vomiting a ton of icon pictures and bunched together text with a minimum of organization is just going to make new/unfamiliar players say, "What the hell is THAT?"

  13. #13
    It's confusing because the rotation is rather complex... not really the fault of the infographic, which is done very well.

    Not his fault that buffs have different timers are and have to be reapplied in a 2:1 fashion etc.
    And the opener is important because it'll make a significant difference depending on when and what you pop first and so on, since everything is multiplicative.

    Did they change that shit with positional requirements for buff/debuff-attacks for Monks too btw? If not, Dragoon is probably alot easier because no matter what, you'll at least get your buffs and debuffs rolling even if you don't fulfill the requirements.
    Last edited by KrayZee; 2016-03-06 at 01:46 PM.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    I don't really see the point of your snipe there, but you'll note that I didn't say I found it confusing. I said they were made to be confusing. Which may or may not be intentional on the part of the people who make them, but just vomiting a ton of icon pictures and bunched together text with a minimum of organization is just going to make new/unfamiliar players say, "What the hell is THAT?"
    Yet they're rarely confusing to read (for new players, teach them one and they know them all, as pretty much all show the opener, list the priority, and have extra commentary on when or when not to use various abilities), and your first couple sentences of the reply to the OP were little more than an unnecessary snipe of your own at the FFXIV community. You really should not be confused when someone responds in kind.

  15. #15
    I would imagine its a shock after WoW's modern "heres your filler, heres your proc, heres your dot, then rest is cooldowns" gameplay but really you get them as you level for a reason, getting dumped a bunch at once is going to seem confusing, just look at the order they are on the list of abilitys and for damn near every class thats where to start with what combos into what, its very rare you get a skill later that effects something you learnt earlier rather than the other way around.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZee View Post
    Did they change that shit with positional requirements for buff/debuff-attacks for Monks too btw? If not, Dragoon is probably alot easier because no matter what, you'll at least get your buffs and debuffs rolling even if you don't fulfill the requirements.
    I didn't play much Monk before 3.0 so I'm not familiar with what abilities required the correct position to apply their buff/debuff, but as of right now (up to level 39) I've not noticed any buff or debuff that requires the correct position, just the correct position for the highest damage of the ability (still has the most movement required to do your highest damage of any job).

  17. #17
    While all the DoW class/jobs are extremely similar (like specs rather than separate classes) Monk and Dragoon pretty much have the difficulty part locked down if only because they also have to pay attention to their positioning throughout their entire rotation. If you want something that feels like Monk but not as stressful, Ninja and Machinist are just different enough that you might enjoy them.
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  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Berethos08 View Post
    Yet they're rarely confusing to read (for new players, teach them one and they know them all, as pretty much all show the opener, list the priority, and have extra commentary on when or when not to use various abilities), and your first couple sentences of the reply to the OP were little more than an unnecessary snipe of your own at the FFXIV community. You really should not be confused when someone responds in kind.
    For the record, it definitely appears confusing if someone is brand new to the class. I remember when feral dps druid felt confusing but eventually came down to the same idea of keeping buffs/debuffs up and ramping up your rotation.

    This info graphic makes me feel like the monk is terribly more complex than it needs to be (Keeping in mind I dps'd as monk for the second half of MoP). But I am aware once your comfortable with your button layout, basic rotation and awareness of boss fights - It will become a lot easer for a new or returning player.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by dope_danny View Post
    I would imagine its a shock after WoW's modern "heres your filler, heres your proc, heres your dot, then rest is cooldowns" gameplay but really you get them as you level for a reason, getting dumped a bunch at once is going to seem confusing, just look at the order they are on the list of abilitys and for damn near every class thats where to start with what combos into what, its very rare you get a skill later that effects something you learnt earlier rather than the other way around.
    I think it's mostly the openers that trip people up, as those are often a mix of cooldowns at very specific spots (some jobs will even have a different opener as an option if you're above a certain latency, but that's more a min/maxer type approach) mixed in with using your standard rotation abilities in a way that isn't exactly your standard rotation.

    Take the Monk one...the rotation is largely Bootshine->True Strike->Snap Punch, except when you need to use a different ability to refresh a buff or debuff, or pop a cool down, and the majority of those get added as you level so you have the time to get accustomed to them.

    The opener, on the other hand, is pre-pull Meditation 5 times, Form Shift 3 times, then start combat (off global cool down abilities included and in bold) Demolish, Perfect Balance, Snap Punch, Blood for Blood, Snap Punch, Internal Release, Dragon Kick, Potion of Strength, Twin Snakes, Elixir Field, Snap Punch, Howling Fist, Touch of Death, Steel Peak, Bootshine, Shoulder Tackle, True Strike, Forbidden Chakra, Demolish, Dragon Kick, Twin Snakes, Snap Punch.

    Not your usual rotation...but also something you only do once per boss fight (trash mobs rarely, if ever, are worth doing the full opener in my opinion).

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Napee View Post
    For the record, it definitely appears confusing if someone is brand new to the class. I remember when feral dps druid felt confusing but eventually came down to the same idea of keeping buffs/debuffs up and ramping up your rotation.

    This info graphic makes me feel like the monk is terribly more complex than it needs to be (Keeping in mind I dps'd as monk for the second half of MoP). But I am aware once your comfortable with your button layout, basic rotation and awareness of boss fights - It will become a lot easer for a new or returning player.
    Completely brand new, I can agree...but by the time you've hit 50+ the basic rotation should pretty much be in the bag, and it's the opener that is the part that needs to be eventually learned, and this one has a clean set-up to show going through that opener and then the priority of abilities next. Not made to be confusing, as Bov claimed, but made to show all relevant information...and for those who do find it confusing at first, teaching them how to read it means they will almost never find the FFXIV infographics to be confusing in the future.

    Side note...Monk in MoP? Mists of Pandaria? Were you making a comparison based on a situation across two games where seemingly complex rotations that really aren't, or (as sometimes happens) did you lost track of which forum you're in?

  20. #20
    Ok ok, I think I just need some time to master it and get behind some stuff. But it's kinda funny how you say that the rotation isn't even that hard.
    Let me compare the monk to the shadow priest in WoW:
    As a shadow priest I have 2 DoTs (1 instant, 1 with cast time) which last a relativly long time. Beside these DoTs I have 1 stronger cast with 9ish seconds cooldown + 1 filler cast. Every 3 "stronger casts" 1 have to press 1 more button. I dont' really have a strong colldown (2 min cd)
    For Aoe i have 2 casts, 1 of them is a 25 second colldown, the other is a channeling cast I can spam. So beside from some talents (which most of the time don't matter) I have 4-5 buttons to press for my single target rotation.

    Everyone who plays WoW knows there is a bit more to it and stuff you have to look at, but thats the class in a nutshell.

    As a monk in FF14 I have to use combos (press the right button to perform another attack) to get my rotation rolling (beside from Perfect Balance, which is another story). So I have a specific opener. I have 3 Buffs and 3-4 Debuffs I have to keep track of. If I f** up my opener, I lose a lot of damage, If I let 1 buff or Debuff fall off, im f**ked, if I place my DoTs at the wrong time, im f**ked (since I have to kinda "snapshot" them, which I saw in another video). Not to mention the cooldowns that I have to use at the right time, it's absolut madness compared to the shadow priest example.

    Beside from cross class cooldowns/abilities/other cooldowns, I have to press 8-10 buttons in a strict oder (all the time) to not royally mess up and lose a lot of damage. And i haven't even looked at the aoe rotation for monks.
    From what I saw in a video, you have 4 ways to somehow execute your aoe rotation (again very strict, but not that many buttons obviously). Again, it might be very confusing just at the beginning, but just comparing it to WoW it is absolut madness + you guys think it's pretty easy...

    edit: oh, and I forgot the positioning thing. This is the nail in the coffin for me, really annoying
    Last edited by Cromatus; 2016-03-06 at 04:19 PM.


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