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  1. #1

    About that combat revamp

    What do people think about it? You have any theories?
    Personally I'm hoping for less abilities, more uniqueness between the classes as in bigger differences in rotations and maybe even lower the GCD so people would stop complaining about it

  2. #2
    The Lightbringer Manabomb's Avatar
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    Lower GCD would kill the game for me. I actually enjoy that its much slower but more meaningful combat pace (and if you wanted to play with a lower GCD you should be playing MNK/NIN.)

    Personally I see them going through and revamping pointless abilities like one ilm punch, redoing the cross action system to include selective Job abilities as well as putting them into categories instead of separating them by class.

    I could also see them doing small tweaks here or there to help with how the jobs handle certain abilities. For example, I had a theory that they would make Trick Attack and Sneak Attack have separate cooldown, however in doing so adjust the damage of Kassatsu+Raiton so it will always do more damage than a Kassatsu+suiton+Sneak attack to prevent opening with Suiton+Trick attack into a Kassatsu+suiton+Sneak attack. To me that would give use to an ability that has 0 use currently in almost any environment and break from the current raiton train ninjas have to deal with outside of our burst.
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  3. #3
    I say leave the GCD and tab-target system alone, squish skills that have different levels but not different functions(Thunder I-II-III is a perfect example), and cut out useless junk skills to compress the rotations some. And like they've said, get rid of some of these ludicrous cross-class options and get abilities that are actually USEFUL to the roles in place.

  4. #4
    I suspect that we'll see quicker, more efficient combat. Hopefully MCH and BRD will lose the awful cast bar they're stuck with at later levels. We know they're planning to combine and remove certain abilities so hopefully those that remain will be more useful/hard hitting. We should get more information at the next Fan Fest though I forget when that is...

  5. #5
    Scarab Lord Anzaman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graeham View Post
    We should get more information at the next Fan Fest though I forget when that is...
    Next one is Japan, on December 24-25.
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  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Anzaman View Post
    Next one is Japan, on December 24-25.
    Ah, thanks! I'll be busy then but I'm sure there will be people flooding the forum with the key points as they're announced.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Manabomb View Post
    Lower GCD would kill the game for me. I actually enjoy that its much slower but more meaningful combat pace (and if you wanted to play with a lower GCD you should be playing MNK/NIN.)
    I agree FFXIV doesn't need lower GCD, it would actually make it worse. I don't think this game needs to be twitchy/spam keyboard style. It is only noticable early on where people don't know about pre-casting 0.5 second before GCD is up, lack of off GCD skills and also lack of mechanics to keep their eyes on, and for jobs like melee where they also need to deal with correct positioning for maximizing DPS. There's also choice of playing monk or ninja for baked-in lower GCD combat.

    In current game, animation, sound, and pace all work together to make combat feel meaty and impactful. Also FFXIV doesn't have something like DBM and it requires people to learn and memorize boss mechanics while doing their roles. While button per min is lower than WoW, game asks you to allocate your focus on other aspects of fight to balance out.

    Things that need improvement are cross class abilities they already address (meaningless choice as of now), slim down # of abilities and QoL stuff.
    Last edited by Elenion; 2016-10-30 at 02:04 AM.

  8. #8
    Remove the level 60 Scholar skill, it's useless!

  9. #9
    I think FFXIV has way too many buttons to have a lower GCD. Im not sure how many are useless and how many arent since I dont exactly play right now, but with a lower GCD it would be spammy with so many buttons. Im not opposed to complicated rotations but Im opposed to breaking my hands trying to perfect a rotation.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Taeldorian View Post
    I think FFXIV has way too many buttons to have a lower GCD. Im not sure how many are useless and how many arent since I dont exactly play right now, but with a lower GCD it would be spammy with so many buttons. Im not opposed to complicated rotations but Im opposed to breaking my hands trying to perfect a rotation.
    I agree, but not with it being complicated. The difference to WoW is, you have like only one button a time to press, for example in WoW you have your to use more than one finger or have a much quicker reaction since the priority system with rng elements and situational "procs" which exist in FFXIV but have only very little gain.

    I think if they had some more elements like that, it could compensate the bigger gc.
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  11. #11
    I haven't played for almost a year, but anything that would make pvp any better is a plus and would make me re-sub just to check it out. Even not having any attack interrupt all casts would be a very good start (yes, when I was playing I had a BLM). From there on I agree that we don't need another action-based MMO.

  12. #12
    They did some QoL change recently that made auto attacks go off even if you are not facing, as long as you are in range. Also casting won't be interrupted if your target goes behind you before you finish casting.

  13. #13
    Highly doubt it'll be something to the effect of lowering the gcd of the entire game. It's more likely their way of saying "ability consolidation/prune" without using that particular dirty word (prune). Lot of jobs have abilities that are essentially redundant at some point (BLM Thunder spells, as previously mentioned, and WHM Stone 2 and 3 come to mind).

  14. #14
    just imagine all those abilities you never need to be changed or removed. reduction of buff/debuff management probably aswell.

    they basically want it to be more like 2.x where you didn't have to stare at all these little timers and focus on boss mechanics instead.

    one thing i would like is to rework tp. make skillspeed also lower costs or something.

  15. #15
    Mechagnome Pilkie's Avatar
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    Removing the cross class skills would be a good start and then having combo abilities on the same button rather than having a single combo take up 4 different slots would be a dream.

  16. #16
    If they change the GCD to be applied after an ability, item, or spell has been pressed. (instead of on button press), Imma' rage. D: A few MMO's have done this, and it just gives major advantages to Melee classes, squeezing in 3-4 attacks for every Caster attack. They just get ripped apart unless they're abusing the terrain.

    The combat overhaul... I'm not sure what they could do? I mean, the target-combat system they have now is based on... FF12's? Don't think FF13 added anything new combat wise for mechanics that would need to be coded into ARR.

    I'm thinking maybe a bit of a dumb-down on class combo's, or the min/maxing of the mixing of classes abilities? Some additional mobility wouldn't be too bad: Such as more flexibility for cast-on-move situations.
    Last edited by Shadow Fox; 2016-10-31 at 11:14 AM.
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Pilkie View Post
    Removing the cross class skills would be a good start and then having combo abilities on the same button rather than having a single combo take up 4 different slots would be a dream.
    I would like something as follows. Starter A has a button. Middle A and End A are tied to it as well. Starter B has a button. Middle B and End B are tied to it. When Starter A is pushed, Middle A and Middle B both light up, same if Starter B is pushed. And after Middle A or B is pushed, End A and B light up. This would GREATLY reduce the bloat classes like MNK and DRG generate.

  18. #18
    What I'd like to see:

    1) Combos remapped to 1 button (i.e. VT replaces TT after casting).
    2) Pruned/combined abilities.
    3) Defensive/mobility spells added for all jobs. Something to give a player tools in hopes that FF14 can develop meaningfully engaging solo play.
    4) I'm cool with tab targeting, but I'd be lying if I wasn't down for some action based combat. BNS still king when it comes to MMO combat, EVEN in PVE.
    5) Fix the weird sliding while attacking animations and make combat a little more fluid.
    6) I'm cool with the longer GCD (where some job get shorter), but I'm not opposed to changes here either, to make the game more comfortable and accessible to new players. Anyone who says the leveling combat in this game was fun is out of their mind. The GCD is fine at max level with oGCDs, but leveling is very painful.
    7) TP rework. They need to do something big with this. It just doesn't ever feel fun to be limited by it, to regain it, or even to spend it.

    Just my .02.

  19. #19
    I've played other MMOs where such combo abilities are done via a single button (GW2's "auto attacks"). While part of me finds the idea rather boring, it would also go a loooooong way toward cleaning hotbar space.

    Outliers I can think of: PLD and DRK, since they have 2 different finishers for some of their combos once they reach 60. But they are also shining examples of how such a cleanup could go a long way.

    DRK:

    - Enmity combo: 3 buttons
    - Syphon combo: 3 more buttons; both start with hard strike (same as enmity), but syphon (that's another button) can end with soul eater (another button) or delirium (yet another)

    Turn this into:

    - Enmity combo: 1 button, push it 3 times in a row
    - "resource combo": 1 button, this would be hard > syphon > soul eater
    - "dps combo": 1 button, hard strike > something new > delirium

    On the surface, I'd say this is a rather boring way to address the issue. That said, the 3 buttons freed up could go a long way; could be some additional oGCDs that could be weaved in and/or additional defensive cds...or maybe even an offensive cd for DRK that isn't dark arts.

  20. #20
    I feel like the more we can do to reduce it down to a single hotbar of must-use abilities and a second hotbar of very situational abilities as all that's required, the better. You shouldn't need to feel like you're playing piano in order to execute your class rotation.

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