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  1. #1

    Is the mentality of the FF XIV community more "hardcore"?

    Ok, so this is the situation.

    I'm an officer at my FC, to be more specific, I'm a raid officer.

    Yesterday I was organizing a grup for Thronmarch Extreme since almost half of our current members hadn't done it yet, and once we had our full party and were inside, I asked on mumble "Ok, who hasn't seen or read a guide for the boss so I can explain?" and the answer I got from everyone was "There is no need for guides, you learn a boss by doing it".

    I was shocked. As easy as that. It's not that I don't like, on the contrary, it was amazing and we enjoyed the fight a lot (we didn't manage to kill him, but we'll manage today), but I was struck by the fact that people willingly wanted to wipe in a boss in order to learn it instead of just reading/watching a guide.

    That made me question myself if the FF XIV community is more hardcore in that sense than other MMORPG.

    What do you guys think?

  2. #2
    The FFXIV playerbase is much smaller, thus the odds of ADHD kids and epic leavers at the first wipe are much smaller as well. WoW has a shit ton of junk players who bail at the first sign of raid weakness.

  3. #3
    A year ago when I gave the game a shot I found FF14's community to be an odd mix of personalities that I'd seen elsewhere. People seemed generally more friendly than SWTOR or WoW, lacking that edgy "has something to prove" attitude from SWTOR or the edgy post-post-post cynicism of WoW's group. I found a lot of groups had no patience for picking daisies (watching the cutscenes) but were generally amicable about not knowing fights, and if you were cordial in dealing with others, you got the same back. There was an odd sort of naivete to people in how they approached the game. Some old hat game design elements that are overlooked, rushed past, or obsolete in games like WoW were treated as new and engaging concepts there. And I think that's maybe at the root of some of it, FF14 is new and original for the people coming into it and this engenders a bit more respect. The game is treated with more gravitas for both being new, and a new experience for some who are coming in.

    My tl;dr, I guess, would be something like: FF14 is where the new blood is at and with it a community that feels fresher and even happier for it.

  4. #4
    Not sure about 'hardcore' but the FFXIV community is light years better than WoW's. And it has nothing to do with the number of players...that excuse is bullshit to be honest. There are plenty of players for FFXIV to get a very good sample size to compare to WoW's. Statistically speaking the WoW sample size being larger has nothing to do with the results as it suffers from the law of diminishing returns.

    Simply put the player base for FFXIV is more mature, less entitled and more willing to help others learn the game. One of the best mmo communities I've seen.
    Last edited by Budong; Yesterday at 07:43 AM.

  5. #5
    Pit Lord Issalice's Avatar
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    As a FFXIV player, I would say that incident isn't enough to judge the community as a whole. That's awesome your FC felt that way, but some people could view that as they being lazy and didn't want to learn before trying. Seriously it could be viewed either way....it doesn't mean anything.

  6. #6
    I think you're confusing hardcore with actually enjoying the game itself. Most people playing WoW these days don't play it because they enjoy figuring out how to kill bosses and then killing them, but instead do it for competition against other people.

    To contrast, what is even the point of doing Extreme primals? No one does them for the gear anymore, so you really have people that just want to experience the fight, and people that are willing to do the same boss 20+ times just to get a mount themed after that specific boss. No one is there to rank higher than anyone else, or to wave their giant epeens around flaunting that they were the 256th group in the world to down it and thus are better than all of the plebs that hadn't killed it yet. They're only there because the primal fights are crazy and whacky with no trash, awesome music, and interesting mechanics.

    Hell, if there's one thing I enjoy most about FFXIV it's playing with other people that actually are interested more in playing the game than just proving they are better than someone else.

  7. #7
    OPs example is the opposite of hardcore

    hardcore is defined as running ptr to get an advantage so you can full clear the raid zone the day it comes out.

    hardcore is not wiping 40 times because youre too lazy to look up strats.

    thats called casual

    and to answer your question, no.

    not even close

  8. #8
    Pit Lord Issalice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    I think you're confusing hardcore with actually enjoying the game itself. Most people playing WoW these days don't play it because they enjoy figuring out how to kill bosses and then killing them, but instead do it for competition against other people.

    To contrast, what is even the point of doing Extreme primals? No one does them for the gear anymore, so you really have people that just want to experience the fight, and people that are willing to do the same boss 20+ times just to get a mount themed after that specific boss. No one is there to rank higher than anyone else, or to wave their giant epeens around flaunting that they were the 256th group in the world to down it and thus are better than all of the plebs that hadn't killed it yet. They're only there because the primal fights are crazy and whacky with no trash, awesome music, and interesting mechanics.

    Hell, if there's one thing I enjoy most about FFXIV it's playing with other people that actually are interested more in playing the game than just proving they are better than someone else.

    Completely agree, one of the main reasons I have enjoyed playing. It's nice to not feel as if I'm completing at all times, it's fun to just play again.

  9. #9
    I've only been playing FF XIV for about 3 days now, but what few encounters i've had with other players (Sastasha, FATE events etc.) has left a positive impression on me. People seem to have a drive for playing, and don't turn into condescending monsters if your "greenhorns" show on your playstyle.

    Cannot comment on whether or not endgame content groups are more "hardcore", but the community in general is lightyears ahead of most other MMO's out there.


  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Budong View Post
    Not sure about 'hardcore' but the FFXIV community is light years better than WoW's. And it has nothing to do with the number of players...that excuse is bullshit to be honest. There are plenty of players for FFXIV to get a very good sample size to compare to WoW's. Statistically speaking the WoW sample size being larger has nothing to do with the results as it suffers from the law of diminishing returns.

    Simply put the player base for FFXIV is more mature, less entitled and more willing to help others learn the game. One of the best mmo communities I've seen.
    So like WoW was 8 years ago? Because that is exactly how it was then and why I have so many friends I know via WoW.
    WoW how it is now is a a big pile of shit compared to how the community was then.

    Its sad really.

  11. #11
    Herald of the Titans Yggdrasil's Avatar
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    It is less toxic. The game doesn't have all the underpinnings of what allows toxic to breed. You cannot prove or show off how bad ass you are though sheer numbers which makes personality and ability to work with people MUCH bigger part of the picture.

    Like a poster said above me. The game is about people playing the game and not just proving how bad ass they are though it.

  12. #12
    Brewmaster Advent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yggdrasil View Post
    It is less toxic. The game doesn't have all the underpinnings of what allows toxic to breed. You cannot prove or show off how bad ass you are though sheer numbers which makes personality and ability to work with people MUCH bigger part of the picture.

    Like a poster said above me. The game is about people playing the game and not just proving how bad ass they are though it.
    I think this might be one of the reasons combat logging parsers haven't been added to the game yet. It may just be a social experiment.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by apples View Post
    OPs example is the opposite of hardcore

    hardcore is defined as running ptr to get an advantage so you can full clear the raid zone the day it comes out.

    hardcore is not wiping 40 times because youre too lazy to look up strats.

    thats called casual

    and to answer your question, no.

    not even close
    I am so very glad you don't play FFXIV. Please stay on Azeroth, thanks.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Budong View Post
    I am so very glad you don't play FFXIV. Please stay on Azeroth, thanks.
    guess its too bad that i do play ff14

  15. #15
    There's always gotta be a bad apple in every bunch I guess...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by apples View Post
    guess its too bad that i do play ff14
    I do have to ask the question. Why do you play FFXIV if you hate it so much?

    Quote Originally Posted by apples View Post
    FF14 is all of the worst parts of wow put into a game, with a ff spin.

    do you like nonstop fetch quests that have no impact on a story? how about killing 4 of one mob, then killing 4 of one mob, then killing 4 of one mob...

    or how about nonsequitur quest destinations? e.g. i know youre in the desert right now but my brother in the forest on the complete other end of the map needs this wine, go give it to him.

    combat is also subpar. you better not watch animations but rather focus on yellow triangles on the ground and cast bars because animations have nothing to do with when abilities actually activate.

    lastly, the economy is nonexistant as far as ive seen.

    money is used purely to raise crafting professions, once you have those maxed out there is nothing to do with money.
    Quote Originally Posted by apples View Post
    all the best parts of ff14 are a result of dev interaction.

    everything else, which is 90% of the game, is terrible and straight copied from other mmos.

  16. #16
    Pit Lord Skinny Red's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Achelon View Post
    What do you guys think?
    I think you don't know what "hardcore" is. Not trying to offend you or anything, but in the situation you described the players were not hardcore. If they were they would've looked up everything they needed to know. It's not bad at all that they prefer to try the boss instead of looking up strats, it's just not a hardcore mentality.

  17. #17
    The mentality in FFXIV, judging by what I've read here, on the official forums and in the game is really really casual. That's not a bad thing even though I don't agree with them. The dev seems to be also really casual.
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  18. #18
    It doesnt have the epeen RECOUNT PLS constant dick waving which cuts off a lot of the "im a pretty big deal and why dont you recognise it" crowd, but its also got a userbase largely used to the turn based single player games or FF11. Both require more patience and the ability to stop and slow down. Whereas things like wow have rts roots and draw on a "CLICKCLICKCLICKCLICKCLICKCLICK" audience used to constant stress and paranoia of a scouting peon in your base.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by apples View Post
    OPs example is the opposite of hardcore. Hardcore is defined as running ptr to get an advantage so you can full clear the raid zone the day it comes out.

    Hardcore is not wiping 40 times because youre too lazy to look up strats. thats called casual

    and to answer your question, no, not even close
    So everytime Blizzard makes a unique boss not testable on PTR, nobody can be hardcore ?

    Not sure about Le PTR for every new boss released, in FF14 tho.

  20. #20
    Warchief Sylreick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paraclef View Post
    So everytime Blizzard makes a unique boss not testable on PTR, nobody can be hardcore ?

    Not sure about Le PTR for every new boss released, in FF14 tho.
    I think you're confusing things. Hardcores do everything within their power to gain an edge, which would mean using every tool to get the job done. So the OP would be describing the opposite. A hardcore player WOULD look at the guides, and they might even check another to compare the different approaches. They'd do their best to find the optimal way to play their chosen class/job, with proper gear and potions and stuff.

    Casuals take a relaxed approach to things. They would roll in and play the game without being bogged down by guides or stuff. They play to enjoy playing.

    My answer would be no, I do not see the FFXIV community as "hardcore". But that is (imo) a very good thing. Hardcores tend to bring burnouts and disgruntled players when they finish all they want to finish and can't go on because there is either 1. nothing else to move into, or 2. other players aren't "on their level" and they need more people to push on with them (and they cba to go back and help the "wittle newbies" get to where they're at).
    "Believing something is not an accomplishment. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because “strength of belief” is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. Listen to any “die-hard” conservative or liberal talk about their deepest beliefs and you are listening to somebody who will never hear what you say on any matter that matters to them — unless you believe the same. Wherever there is a belief, there is a closed door."

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