[Megathread] Final Fantasy XIV

[Anzaman]

FINALLY! The nightmare of PLD is over, its 60. Thats all 23 jobs levelled, every quest in HW done and my quest log is clean and empty ready for Stormblood.

I'm just looking at my last jobs.. leveling 50-60 through PotD is just slow, nightmarish, boring slog.

[dope_danny]

I'm just looking at my last jobs.. leveling 50-60 through PotD is just slow, nightmarish, boring slog.

HW tribe dailies, roullette and fate runs for relic alts gets the job done.

[Kazgrel]

FINALLY! The nightmare of PLD is over, its 60. thats all 23 jobs levelled, every quest in HW done and my quest log is clean and empty ready for stormblood.

Now just gotta get my crafter and gatherer accessories for a the launch boost and i'm good to go

Nice. I'm a level and a half-ish on MCH away from having everything at 60 also. Then I'll toss some 250 crafted gear together (fuck having to run Creator normal a hundred billion times for one set of gear) and those will be pretty much as good as I'll get them to go for Stormblood leveling. Unless the scripture cap is doubled up, healer and MNK gear gets priority on that for rest of the xpac (BLM and tank gear pretty much all done).

Funny, I suppose I'll have baller gear for RDM/SAM as well assuming RDM uses caster gear. I'm definitely good to go for SAM.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm just looking at my last jobs.. leveling 50-60 through PotD is just slow, nightmarish, boring slog.

Dem potsherds, though...I burned through a good dozen of them over the last month and change upgrading all sorts of shire gear to 270. o.o

Lately I've had a friend who's been leveling up through the game for the first time and I made it a point to run leveling roulette with them every day, which helped out a lot also.

[StrawberryZebra]

And bullshit DPS meters don't cause toxcity.

The DPS meters themselves aren't directly responsible for that kind of behaviour, it's just an easy tool to use for it. If they're not availible people just swap to other metrics to compare their ePeens with. Gear Score is another common one, as are Achievements as well as things like ELO, KDA and various other ranking systems for PvP. While DPS meters themselves do not help the situation, they're by no means the root cause of it.

It's worth considering the positives that DPS meters offer too. They generate reliable data on what people are doing during a boss fight, and from that can look for ways to improve. I've had WoW raiders in the past who've shown massive improvements with half an hour and Recount, in some cases as much as tripling their DPS, due to having the right information to quickly find the faults in their rotations.

DPSing is a role where it's much harder to gauge how effective your perfomance is without these kinds of tools, especially in group content, so it's understandable that people want some form of feedback on how they're doing. At the end of the day it's up to the players how they get used.

[Anzaman]

Dem potsherds, though...

Hehe, yeah - still need few to get everything from vendor (mount, minions, music roll(s)..).

Tho, I'm getting them while pushing higher floors. Monk is soon level 58, after that it'd be just BLM (50). WAR (51) and DRK (51) shouldn't really have too much of issues getting into dungeons, hopefully.

[Remilia]

FINALLY! The nightmare of PLD is over, its 60. thats all 23 jobs levelled, every quest in HW done and my quest log is clean and empty ready for stormblood.

Now just gotta get my crafter and gatherer accessories for a the launch boost and i'm good to go

You scare me. I do... nothing of that,
Only have SMN/SCH, WHM and AST at 60. Gathering (not fishing) at 60, and one crafter at 60. >.>

Yep. Once you are at 101 and above, a wipe means you can't progress any further on that save. That said, 101+ is only available for fixed parties aka full premades. I'd love to see an option to start at 101 with a fixed party since 50-100 is a total snooze fest when you're at 90+ aether pool.

You want 51-100 to collect consumables though. That said, 101-150 imo isn't that hard either. It's 151+ that gets pretty bad especially if RNG decides to roll over you.

[Kazgrel]

You scare me. I do... nothing of that,
Only have SMN/SCH, WHM and AST at 60. Gathering (not fishing) at 60, and one crafter at 60. >.>
You want 51-100 to collect consumables though. That said, 101-150 imo isn't that hard either. It's 151+ that gets pretty bad especially if RNG decides to roll over you.

Fair point, but as you pointed out, 101-150 isn't too bad, so one can use those to stockpile for 151+. I haven't fully cleared but I can say from experience that 181-190 is a significant jump up even over 151-180.

[Wrecktangle]

By that thought process, you should be hard locked at minimum ilvl and de-leveled permanently. There should be no form or function to overpower save perfect execution of mechanics, otherwise you're just getting a participation medal. And bullshit DPS meters don't cause toxcity. It's been an observable phenomenon for years in WoW. Talk shit during fight, post meters after fight, talk shit on everyone who isn't above a certain level. Who cares that the group one shot the boss with no problems, someone didn't meet your DPS e-peen measurement, TALK SHIT ON THEM! POINT AND LAUGH, EVERYONE! The very definition of toxic behavior.

Not sure I follow your analogy. Tanks have a very obvious feedback mechanism. Healers have one of the most obvious. DPS have nothing. That's an issue IMO. They literally just show up do what they want and earn their medal, meanwhile no one is wiser as to what that person actually did. I can also argue that having a healer out dps and keep everyone alive needs a commendation and a shout out, but without the data, you couldn't tell them apart from an AFK fairy healer. That IMO is also not good. Same thing, having a tank hold threat, not die, make it easy for melee to DPS, and does competitive damage? He needs a shout out, but the only info you'd have is that he didn't die and he kept the boss still, just another average tank to you.

I play both games so let me tell you a story. I pug raids all the time, hard current content. I can tell you since Legion dropped how many times I have seen a DPS meter linked in a group (this includes mythic plus, heroic, AND mythic pug raids).

0.

Yep that's right. I have seen it a total of 0 times since Legion launched. No one links meters to talk shit, because everyone has access to it and can see it. No one needs to say anything to the person because they can see themselves how poorly they performed.

I'm not exaggerating either. I haven't seen a DPS meter linked since wotlk. The DPS meter doesn't CREATE or facilitate toxicity. People who are toxic will use whatever means they have to be toxic. That doesn't mean more people will crop up, it just means they'll change their tool. Right now people persecute on "new player bonus" or ilvl, or their "feelings". I cringe at the thought that you guys are ok with that over the alternative.

Though you make me ponder...which is more cruel? Dark Souls or classic EQ with the corpse runs, corpse decay, and xp loss + deleveling punishments?

Unfortunately I missed out on the EQ days by about a year so I can't share. DS actually isn't a hard game, it's punishing. If you're patient and smart DS is actually fairly trivial. If you don't get greedy the patterns aren't terribly hard and the healing items give you plenty of sustain. I did lose a lv 99 hardcore barbarian in d2 in act 3 hell because my awesome dial up died. That was a fun day. Not.

Well I'm happy with the community in FFXIV, but you're welcome to enjoy the clearly superior community of WoW, I suppose. Clearly they have a better community with all the conflict and competition they've had of harshly differeng views of the game. :|

Pump the brakes my friend. I am not saying or implying that WoW is superior. However, if you want to get technical what metric would you use to define a quality community? Size? Political Affiliation? Existing Player retention? New players month over month?

They were both duty finder runs. And no, we wouldn't kick someone pointing out mistakes and explaning how to deal with them. Why would you even think we'd kick someone helping? No, honestly, what anywhere in what I said remotely makes you think they were just trying to help and all of us were in the wrong?

Then he is clearly wrong. Thank you for providing the details.

In regards to kicking people who were trying to help? Yeah as a matter of a fact I do think FF14 players would do that. In fact, some of the players in this thread very clearly embody that philosophy. If you don't agree with their philosophy they'll kick you, blacklist you, then talk trash in /s or /y about you, all because you asked about a different strategy (fictitious scenario, but tell me you couldn't see Sorrior or Ralqadar doing it after the way they've spoken LOL). That's the go to strategy instead of using insight and experience to have a productive discussion.

[Sorrior]

I wholeheartedly believe some of the restrictions that people rail against are the reason for this and fostering a positive community is at the forefront of Yoshida's mind. Just look at the weekend live letter when DPS meters came up again. He said he understands the desire to use them for self improvement, but even if you can only see your own DPS, it becomes "Tell me what your DPS is" and they feel it would be negative for the community. They're looking for ways to give players these improvement measurements for self use without injecting toxicity found elsewhere and I greatly respect them for it.

And as much as some are going to hate it, and disagree with me on it, I feel like the MSQ requirements for each expansion to move to the next is another factor that attributes to a more positive community, though I agree with them pruning the MSQ and adjusting xp requirements to speed up 2.x for new players wholeheartedly.

Here's my latest "I love this community" story:

We were in Dun Scaith last night. We're on Diabolos and my friend tell the tank "turn him away when he casts that" which was incorrect. The stacking debuff is based on mid-range hit, so you get at range or stack on him to avoid it, but my friend thought it was a direction attack. No big deal, really, but a monk decides the proper response is "ARE YOU RETARDED?" and it played out like this:

Friend tank: Turn him away from group to avoid that
Monk: ARE YOU RETARDED
Healer: That escalated quickly.
Friend tank: You want the stacking debuff?
Monk: CONFIRMED. RETARDED.
Other player: Nah, it's mid-range based. Get close or at max range and you'll avoid it, it's not based on his facing the group.
Monk: ^ FEEL RETARDED NOW?
MCH (another friend of ours): Use a different word.
Monk: Sorry, sorry. MENTALLY HANDICAPPED.

This was then followed by numerous players dogpiling the Monk with "wow you're so edgy" "Such edgy, teach me please" "There's no reason to be a jerk, just explain how the mechanic actually works" "No need to be an ass, man" and things like that.

We had another player during this expansion talking trash on people messing up on mechanics in one of the Alexander runs. That poor jerk didn't know that my FC had the majority of the party. He got the boot and we kept the ones screwing up. Had a healer (who wasn't messing up) speak up after they were glad he was gone and we proceeded to help the new folks learn the mechanics and down the run easy peasy.

So yeah, there are bad eggs here and there, but it does me proud to see most push back against them when I've personally come across them.

- - - Updated - - -



Fully agree with you. I was just noting how bad that license was implemented at US launch in XI because of the RNG server placement.

I wholeheartedly would like to have one in FFXIV. Currently I just tell friends that if they try it on another server and like it (give them room to play around on their own for a bit) I'll pick up the server transfer for them. Though I advise them to make alts first since it transfers the whole lot of 'em and they can fantasia later if they do decide to poke around on alts.

HOWEVER!!!!

We've not only got cross party finder, but Yoshida was talking about cross server FC membership at Fan Fest, making me think they want a way for other server players to access FC chat and eventually FC housing on a server they aren't on. I'm guessing they want to do like WoW and make server separation as invisible as possible for players wanting to play together, which could be interesting in time. Just doesn't help us NOW. :/

Lol you reminded me of a keepers run back in 2.55. I had to take a call from a now ex due to family drama our tank was in FULL Coil gear so a hardcore raider. Well we were making phenomenal time like damn never saw it before. Buut ge stops and starts yelling at me for not doing all my nest dps(I was attaching dots and moving for non bosses but I think my ex was texting me so irl ya know) anyways everyone backs me up(I had apologized abd explained once or twice before) and was doing my thing on bosses. Anyways he gets pissy and bam he gets votekicked or leaves.

So what do we do? I apologize and they go "np man he was a jerk" we then sit around mid dungeon for like 10 minutes shooting the breeze till we get a new tank.

Was amazing and shows how great this community is

- - - Updated - - -

Not sure I follow your analogy. Tanks have a very obvious feedback mechanism. Healers have one of the most obvious. DPS have nothing. That's an issue IMO. They literally just show up do what they want and earn their medal, meanwhile no one is wiser as to what that person actually did. I can also argue that having a healer out dps and keep everyone alive needs a commendation and a shout out, but without the data, you couldn't tell them apart from an AFK fairy healer. That IMO is also not good. Same thing, having a tank hold threat, not die, make it easy for melee to DPS, and does competitive damage? He needs a shout out, but the only info you'd have is that he didn't die and he kept the boss still, just another average tank to you.

I play both games so let me tell you a story. I pug raids all the time, hard current content. I can tell you since Legion dropped how many times I have seen a DPS meter linked in a group (this includes mythic plus, heroic, AND mythic pug raids).

0.

Yep that's right. I have seen it a total of 0 times since Legion launched. No one links meters to talk shit, because everyone has access to it and can see it. No one needs to say anything to the person because they can see themselves how poorly they performed.

I'm not exaggerating either. I haven't seen a DPS meter linked since wotlk. The DPS meter doesn't CREATE or facilitate toxicity. People who are toxic will use whatever means they have to be toxic. That doesn't mean more people will crop up, it just means they'll change their tool. Right now people persecute on "new player bonus" or ilvl, or their "feelings". I cringe at the thought that you guys are ok with that over the alternative.



Unfortunately I missed out on the EQ days by about a year so I can't share. DS actually isn't a hard game, it's punishing. If you're patient and smart DS is actually fairly trivial. If you don't get greedy the patterns aren't terribly hard and the healing items give you plenty of sustain. I did lose a lv 99 hardcore barbarian in d2 in act 3 hell because my awesome dial up died. That was a fun day. Not.



Pump the brakes my friend. I am not saying or implying that WoW is superior. However, if you want to get technical what metric would you use to define a quality community? Size? Political Affiliation? Existing Player retention? New players month over month?



Then he is clearly wrong. Thank you for providing the details.

In regards to kicking people who were trying to help? Yeah as a matter of a fact I do think FF14 players would do that. In fact, some of the players in this thread very clearly embody that philosophy. If you don't agree with their philosophy they'll kick you, blacklist you, then talk trash in /s or /y about you, all because you asked about a different strategy (fictitious scenario, but tell me you couldn't see Sorrior or Ralqadar doing it after the way they've spoken LOL). That's the go to strategy instead of using insight and experience to have a productive discussion.

Actually I don't I have very very strict rules about it and even in Wow I almost never kick. I always am the last to mention it if someone is afk and if a new player I do what I can to help.

Seriously why would you even think I woukd do that? I am anti kick bar extreme cases(such as a healer who just stays at entrance and comes back when kicked trolling).

[threads]

FINALLY! The nightmare of PLD is over, its 60. thats all 23 jobs levelled, every quest in HW done and my quest log is clean and empty ready for stormblood.

Now just gotta get my crafter and gatherer accessories for a the launch boost and i'm good to go

PLD is so damn boring. It's one of my last 3 I need to finish leveling but every time I play it I just end up shelving it for a week or two.

[Remilia]

Fair point, but as you pointed out, 101-150 isn't too bad, so one can use those to stockpile for 151+. I haven't fully cleared but I can say from experience that 181-190 is a significant jump up even over 151-180.

Worst floors is definitely 171-190. 191-200 is easier just because the mobs aren't 100% assholes, just 99%.

[Grishnok]

The DPS meters themselves aren't directly responsible for that kind of behaviour, it's just an easy tool to use for it. If they're not availible people just swap to other metrics to compare their ePeens with. Gear Score is another common one, as are Achievements as well as things like ELO, KDA and various other ranking systems for PvP. While DPS meters themselves do not help the situation, they're by no means the root cause of it.

It's worth considering the positives that DPS meters offer too. They generate reliable data on what people are doing during a boss fight, and from that can look for ways to improve. I've had WoW raiders in the past who've shown massive improvements with half an hour and Recount, in some cases as much as tripling their DPS, due to having the right information to quickly find the faults in their rotations.

DPSing is a role where it's much harder to gauge how effective your perfomance is without these kinds of tools, especially in group content, so it's understandable that people want some form of feedback on how they're doing. At the end of the day it's up to the players how they get used.

Which is exactly why Yoshi P leaked that they are working on something that will tell ONLY you how well you are doing without making a comparison to everyone else and their epeen. In fact he said its something no MMO to date has attempted before. I am excited to see how it turns out. Actual DPS meters and things like DBM, Gearscore and other such addons are IMO what caused the toxicity and complete break down of WoW's community over the years. Its all a "my numbers are bigger than yours" neckbeard tourney now and Blizzard has embraced it. I am so Glad that Yoshi P and FFXIV are going against that tide. I mean we are 4 months away from the games second xpac after a failed launch of 1.0 and I still encounter the nicest community to date which only help the immersion and the feeling of the old school MMOs even more. When is the last time you queued for a random 5 man in WOW and had anyone say anything nice to anyone? Or shit said ANYTHING at all? It almost never happens. While in FFXIV I get 2-3 "his or hellos" at the start of each dungeon and people wanting to help.

Also DPS meters only cause epeen neckbeard players to tunnel hard and ignore MORE mechanics. FFXIV needs no global DPS meter and it needs no DBM. The mechanics are broadcasted just fine as is and the less incentive we give players to be cocks to each other the better.

[Anzaman]

Authentic Eastern Cherry Tree.

*Glares at SE* ..maybe we'd be getting these during next Little Ladies' Day?

I've been looking at Eastern Cherry Tree for ages now, but don't feel like bombing 30 mil on one of those..

[Melsiren]

I've been looking at Eastern Cherry Tree for ages now, but don't feel like bombing 30 mil on one of those..

The FC I left to make my own had 9 of those fucking trees cluttering the front yard.

It twas horrible.

[Anzaman]

The FC I left to make my own had 9 of those fucking trees cluttering the front yard.

It twas horrible.

Hehe, I can imagine. Not exactly planning to to fill my garden with them, but I'd love to have one or two there.

But the current 30 mil each price has been keeping me away from it..

[dope_danny]

Lol you reminded me of a keepers run back in 2.55. I had to take a call from a now ex due to family drama our tank was in FULL Coil gear so a hardcore raider. Well we were making phenomenal time like damn never saw it before. Buut ge stops and starts yelling at me for not doing all my nest dps(I was attaching dots and moving for non bosses but I think my ex was texting me so irl ya know) anyways everyone backs me up(I had apologized abd explained once or twice before) and was doing my thing on bosses. Anyways he gets pissy and bam he gets votekicked or leaves.

So what do we do? I apologize and they go "np man he was a jerk" we then sit around mid dungeon for like 10 minutes shooting the breeze till we get a new tank.

Was amazing and shows how great this community is

funny you mention something like that. I was doing the roullettes for my tomes and got tam tara with a greenleaf healer. They get stuck on geometry out of line of sight, the party wipes and they dont release. The tank -who of course had a world of warcraft characters name to keep the stereotype alive- starts doing the "FFS HEALER WTF ARE U DOING" thats been the norm since dungeon finder showed up in wrath along with the 'one wipe and everyone leaves' mentality and tries to kick when they dont release.
I inspect the healer and they have the friendship circlet, novice gear and a PSN ID, clearly they are new. Healer types "dont know how " and the tank goes nuclear but the other dps goes "oh im so sorry i didn't realise you were new" and they try to help but dont know the PS4 interface, knowing whats probably up i say "hit the trackpad in the middle to cycle to a tiny button on the bottom right" and instantly they respawn. I then offer some tips for healing like "use the up and down on the d pad to cycle fast through the party" as the tank calls everyone faggots and says how 'legion is killing this trash game anyways' and leaves so we wait for 5 minutes helping them out with info and a new tank shows up and goes "greenleaf know what to do?" and is perfectly willing to help as well and we get the dungeon and the healer asks what he could do to help more and was very happy people helped and said "i didnt think people online could be friendly in games anymore" and adds the others who were on his server to his friends list and we leave with the duty concluded.

Not wanting to shit on WoW because thats like making fun of a clown for dressing silly nowadays but even with 8 years in it myself it really has negatively coloured peoples expectations of how people can just be decent to each other and maybe its FFXIV's roots as a japanese game where the one character for everything nature means server name and shaming still exists but the worst you see most of the time is people posting dumb memeshit in chats and thats all too rare in online games nowadays.

Gabes 'greater internet fuckwad theory' on anonymity in action i suppose. No need to be nice when you have a dozen alt characters i guess.

[StrawberryZebra]

Actual DPS meters and things like DBM, Gearscore and other such addons are IMO what caused the toxicity and complete break down of WoW's community over the years.

I fear you missed the point. People are toxic online anyway, DPS meters were just one of their weapons of choice because it required very little effort to use them to be a dick.

By removing it from those who are going to use it maliciously, you've also removed it as a useful tool for everyone else who'll use it responsibly too. For what its worth, DPS meters predate the apparent decline of the WoW community into it's supposed "break down" too. Everyone had one in your 10 man Strat Baron group, back when that was still a thing. Everyone. Just something to think about.

A tool that only shows you your personal DPS is great in theory, but in practice it'll be a case of simply asking people what their DPS is before inviting them to a group. A tool that doesn't show how well you're perfoming relative to other players is also of debatable use without additional data to support it. 10k DPS might seem good in isolation, but when your Warrior is doing 15k you're still underperforming and you're lacking vital information to reach that conclusion alone.

[Sorrior]

funny you mention something like that. I was doing the roullettes for my tomes and got tam tara with a greenleaf healer. They get stuck on geometry out of line of sight, the party wipes and they dont release. The tank -who of course had a world of warcraft characters name to keep the stereotype alive- starts doing the "FFS HEALER WTF ARE U DOING" thats been the norm since dungeon finder showed up in wrath along with the 'one wipe and everyone leaves' mentality and tries to kick when they dont release.
I inspect the healer and they have the friendship circlet, novice gear and a PSN ID, clearly they are new. Healer types "dont know how " and the tank goes nuclear but the other dps goes "oh im so sorry i didn't realise you were new" and they try to help but dont know the PS4 interface, knowing whats probably up i say "hit the trackpad in the middle to cycle to a tiny button on the bottom right" and instantly they respawn. I then offer some tips for healing like "use the up and down on the d pad to cycle fast through the party" as the tank calls everyone faggots and says how 'legion is killing this trash game anyways' and leaves so we wait for 5 minutes helping them out with info and a new tank shows up and goes "greenleaf know what to do?" and is perfectly willing to help as well and we get the dungeon and the healer asks what he could do to help more and was very happy people helped and said "i didnt think people online could be friendly in games anymore" and adds the others who were on his server to his friends list and we leave with the duty concluded.

Not wanting to shit on WoW because thats like making fun of a clown for dressing silly nowadays but even with 8 years in it myself it really has negatively coloured peoples expectations of how people can just be decent to each other and maybe its FFXIV's roots as a japanese game where the one character for everything nature means server name and shaming still exists but the worst you see most of the time is people posting dumb memeshit in chats and thats all too rare in online games nowadays.

Gabes 'greater internet fuckwad theory' on anonymity in action i suppose. No need to be nice when you have a dozen alt characters i guess.

Actually I think it is the story. It acts as a kind of patience filter. I have noticed the more toxic people tend to prefer lobby esque stuff abd have a hard time with doing story content considering it pointless or not worth their time. Add in having to do story quests instead of just bam getting dungeons and quing to do everything I feel helps filter them out. They get bored or cannot just do the action to get gear.

It is one reason I am mixed on jump potions(mostly because of alts/rp abd personal use reasons)

[Aruhen]

I'm happy with just a proper greeting at the start of a dungeon and a farewell at the end. Something that I see once in a blue moon in WoW as most people just don't give a rats ass were as its the oddity in FFXIV if it doesn't happen. Of course no one is forcing you to do it but it wouldn't hurt now would it? It makes you seem more human than just Tank #39 or DPS #5003.

[Kyriani]

I wish i could be more chatty in dungeons but since I heal, trying to type while not letting folks die can be dicey depending on the pulls. >_>