[Megathread] Final Fantasy XIV

[Granyala]

Give me an example.

There are tons of abilities that can be interrupted. Oo

The main problem is that the mob is immune to stuns after 3 times, which means that you have chose WHAT to interrupt.
Best example: Turtle add in Steps of Faith(?) ... that bridge thingy with the giant Dragon.

Casters have no issue with the gcd considering their casts last as long as the gcd anyway

Have to disagree here. The long cast times are annoying. Esp in high movement encounters where you have to hope that nothing happens for the next 3 seconds. <_<

[Fuubakusatsu]

The thing is, most (every?) bosses after 2.1 are immune to status. So things like Leg Swipe and Blunt Arrow just becomes another DPS button.

I think the last one that you could (had) to interrupt was the Golem from T9 and the add on Levi.

Ignoring the fact that you actually can make use of the stuns and silence in pretty much every fight that involves adds and sometimes on bosses too, why is it meaningless busywork?

Besides the ones I cited, I honestly don't remember any.

[Deleted]

Give me an example.

Adds on A1S, Soldiers on A2S as well as hardhelms and hardminds, adds during tornado on A3S have to either be stunned or interrupted, large hand in A3S that grabs the healer has to be chain stunned or else you won't meet the dps requirement before it reaches the edge when you don't have caster lb, A4S you have to stun the leg(s) that's/re steaming or esle you die.
I could go on but I listed most of the current serious endgame...

EDIT: even the 3 large hounds before cuchulain in the void ark have to be stunned/interrupted during their cast. If they go off at the same time you ll most likely wipe.

[Renathras]

What about players that actually like to have interesting class mechanics and don't choose tank because they can't do anything to make the raid/dungeon a success?
I don't believe in that "people don't play tanks because they are scared" mentality one bit. Tanks have always had the easiest jobs for quite a while now, if a tank dies he can basically blame it on "not enough heal", "not enough damage", especially in FFXIV.
The reason we have more deeps than tanks is because tank is a "support" role and can't do well on his own in most/all games. People like to listen to Linkin Park or SOAD and kill stuff after all.
Since FFXIV tanks are by default weaker than DPS classes, alot of people chose not to play one and since they are quite boring to play too (paladin) they have nothing going for them, with the exception of short queue times.

I think you're generalizing.

I hate DPS, and I dislike complex rotations. I'm one of those people that are "scared" to play a Tank because I like people and I don't like failing other people. So I don't tend to like being the leader because I don't want to mess up and wipe the group, or get people lost if I don't know a dungeon.

...and I like support - I main healer in basically every game. No complex rotations, no leading the party. You could argue a fail healer will fail the group, but for some reason I don't have the same mental issue playing a healer as playing a tank, even though I like support roles and I like protecting and taking care of other people.

So no, you're being FAR too general in saying that people don't play them because they're boring and people would rather DPS and don't like support. While I will admit healers aren't exactly in abundance either, obviously some of us play heals and tanks, so at least some people enjoy that aspect of gameplay. All the things I've mentioned that make me intimidated to play a tank are the very reasons that a lot of people LIKE playing tanks. Back in WoW, I was part of a small family and friends guild and ended up being one of the two primary tanks. Because we needed another one, I was a Paladin (we had like 5 Shaman, so no tanks there, lol), and failures weren't met with scorn and insults (granted, I still disliked failing, but it was an awesome group of people, so it worked out well.)

I would actually like games to have more dedicated buffer/synergist classes, too.

And when I DO Tank, I prefer the mechanics to be simple so I can focus on the battlefield - positioning of enemies, locations of hazards, etc.

I also like that FF14 has different flavors of tanks for different people. While I'd be intimidated to try DRK or WAR, I actually like that GLD seems to have a relatively simple rotation that is easy to pick up for new players or nervous novices. I've always been fond of games that have a "casual, moderate, and hard" version of things, because it lets people play at the level they can handle.

.

In any case, I'm rambling, but you're just not right. Your statements are FAR to general.

[Granyala]

I prefer DRK over Paladin, to be honest.
Both basically play the same way in regards to mana management (albeit DRK being a bit harsher) but DRK has more off GCD stuff to spam when bored.

My main is my Whitemage. I just love that class.

[Aruhen]

Actually there are people who don't tank because of the "they are scared mentality". I'm one of them. I have severe anxiety in real life and some of that translates in-game. There is an inherent pressure when you tank (more so than when you heal I find) as you are the front and center of attention most of the time. You are also the least represented role in a group scenario compared to DPS #24. When you fuck you up everyone will know while there's always an other DPS in the group to pick up the slack of that one. This is also the reason finding tanks for dungeons is really easy when compared to raids. It's a more relaxed and easy environment compared to a raid.

Also complexity in a role doesn't come from just the rotation. By that argument healing would be the easiest role (which is what I believe to be the case). Most of the tank role comes from factors outside the rotation such as proper positioning and CD usage. This is the exact same role you have in say WoW with the only exception being that you have less buttons to press at any given time. Healers are in a similar position too in both games. There isn't anything really that makes healing hard per say but the players in your group can either make you have to heal 24/7 or only throw an occasional heal because of unavoidable damage. There is obviously a few fights that gives healers a spotlight (Anub'arak, Nefarion 2.0) were proper usage of skills makes them shine. DPS on the other hand don't really have any of this in lower tiers of content. For the most part all that is expected of them is just to stand there and throw cans at the boss.

Having said all this I think there is some argument that could be made for the theme of a class. No matter how boring it may seem, if the theme is interesting for you then that can make it fun. For example Paladin is sorta boring when compared to the other two tanks but I still enjoy it just because using a shield is more fun for me.

[Granyala]

Raid tanking isn't so bad. You just need to get used to it. The few raid encounters I have tanked (Karazhan/Zul'aman back in the day, Beth'tilac) I found it rather dull though. Sure it's exciting to have the attention of the big bad and having to position it, but once you did you essentially play the same as any DPS with the exception of popping a def cooldown now and then.

Also, in terms of fuck ups, if you do harder content, a DPS fucking up and dying can easily make the difference between meeting the enrage timer and killing the boss or wiping. There is A LOT of pressure on DPS, imho the most because there is no "good enough" for DPS. Recount/ACT always show where you made mistakes and where you can get more out of your class.

[Deleted]

Raid tanking isn't so bad. You just need to get used to it. The few raid encounters I have tanked (Karazhan/Zul'aman back in the day, Beth'tilac) I found it rather dull though. Sure it's exciting to have the attention of the big bad and having to position it, but once you did you essentially play the same as any DPS with the exception of popping a def cooldown now and then.

Also, in terms of fuck ups, if you do harder content, a DPS fucking up and dying can easily make the difference between meeting the enrage timer and killing the boss or wiping. There is A LOT of pressure on DPS, imho the most because there is no "good enough" for DPS. Recount/ACT always show where you made mistakes and where you can get more out of your class.

You mentioned very simplistic fights though :/
This is no longer the case with tank tactics in neither ffxiv or WoW

[Aruhen]

I'm talking about lower form of content (LFR/Dungeons) as that is were most of the players are. For DPS there isn't a lot of pressure because the fights aren't balanced around skilled players. They're balanced around sub preforming DPS so they can just casually press buttons and win. At the same time a healer has a hard time in LFR because people choose to stand in everything. Tanks have to to keep more adds on them (cough Tortos from ToT) and in turn use proper CD rotation until the DPS finally start paying attention or the adds get whittled down by the tank.

At higher tiers of content? Yeah I 100% agree that DPS is the hardest job at that tier. Healing is the easiest job at that tier as there shouldn't be a lot of avoidable damage going out. Tanking is in between. I agree that it can get dull as most fights are generally the same but there are a few fights out there that change it up. Nefarion 2.0 for example was fun to tank as a really good tank shined on that fight.

In the end tanking (and healing to a lesser degree) is a thankless job at lower tiers of content. Not many people will notice your awesome positioning so there's less downtown for the DPS on the boss. Not many people will notice how the healer kept those imbeciles alive while they proceeded to stand in half the crap on the ground. On the other hand even if you're low on the DPS meters as a damage healer most people wont say anything. This is because usually what the case is there are several sub preforming damage dealers and if you call one of them out, they go with a group mentality and try to pin it on you. This is also comes back to the whole mental thing with why people don't play tanks.

[Granyala]

You mentioned very simplistic fights though :/
This is no longer the case with tank tactics in neither ffxiv or WoW

True, active mitigation changed tanking considerably in WoW. To the point where I would not be comfortable enough to tank any raid boss.
Even on kazzak, I screwed up once -> instagib.

In the end tanking (and healing to a lesser degree) is a thankless job at lower tiers of content

Definitely. You don't get noticed if everything works and you get yelled at for every mistake. Even if it isn't your mistake. :/

[Deleted]

In any case, I'm rambling, but you're just not right. Your statements are FAR to general.

arn't you being far to general too? Saying, just because *you* are scared, that tanks are not being played because of the "pressure"?
I actually like playing tanks (I hope I can stat my The Division character into one hell of a tanky guy), but not in a game where I can't switch to DPS when I want to... like, if I'm doing something solo, I actually have to switch class and gear and since I dislike leveling, I can't be bothered to level more than a few different classes before I give up on the rest.
Warrior is in a good spot, but sword & board is where it's at for me - and paladin is horrible to play.

And as I said, I just don't "believe" it - maybe I should have written it somehow else, like... I don't know, "People who are scared of tanking, are not scared because tanking is such a demanding job, but because they talk themselve into it." Ever since the threat system became "secondary" you shouldn't feel more pressure than deeps or heeps. (and it's not like you can vastly change how much threat you dish out anyway)
In fact, I very often chose to be a DPS class in alot MMOs recently, because a good DPS is the most important class nowadays (and has been for several years now.)

[Aruhen]

People aren't afraid of because they cant keep threat. They're afraid because people generally don't like to be put in a "leader" role which is what tanks are to the average person. Being a role like that generally puts you in the spot light and most people lack self confidence...so yeah. When there's more expectations of a person they tend to be feel pressured and most people don't like feeling pressured. To them playing a damage dealer is viewed as an easy to do role that's very relaxing as they can just stand in the back and press buttons (even if that's far from the truth).

[Granyala]

It not just the "leader role" it's the fact that if you screw up as tank it is GLARINGLY obvious to everyone (opposed to DPS in a game where recount isn't common) and often has hefty consequences for the group.

I'd wager it's more about responsibility than leadership.

[Sesshomaru]

This is one of many reasons why I like FFXIV more than WoW (besides improved gameplay/crafting)


Shamelessly stolen from Reddit. (Original)

And I feel with you on the tank/heal shaming. When everything goes smooth, no one says a thing, maybe a "good job" or two. Once the wipes begin, no one seemingly wants to improve and know if a tact could be used and such. When I first did A4 (Burden normal), I didn't know I was supposed to stay away from the other healer or to soak the balls. Luckily, I got some hints from the co-healer who had done it a few times, saving a lot of wipes.

I feel sorry for the newbie tanks who want to experience the stuff, when the dps (I usually heal) is so trigger happy and want to rush things.

[Binaris]

I can stand a poor tank or poor healer if it seems like they are trying. However, it is becoming more obvious that poor play is becoming such an acceptable norm that people are doing it on purpose.

Had a tank today that was repeatedly pulling way more than the healer could handle, which was obvious by the healers level. But thats not even the bad part. He was Rping as a dark knight who was turning to the light and as such he refused to use darkside, ya know that buff they want to keep up 100% to increase damage and threat to acceptable levels.

Give me a poor player who is trying and wants to improve over these people who think their 15 a month gives them the right to purposely grief in the name of rping. See that crap with Black mages all the time too, rping that they are scared of fire like rydia in ff4.

[Sorrior]

I can stand a poor tank or poor healer if it seems like they are trying. However, it is becoming more obvious that poor play is becoming such an acceptable norm that people are doing it on purpose.

Had a tank today that was repeatedly pulling way more than the healer could handle, which was obvious by the healers level. But thats not even the bad part. He was Rping as a dark knight who was turning to the light and as such he refused to use darkside, ya know that buff they want to keep up 100% to increase damage and threat to acceptable levels.

Give me a poor player who is trying and wants to improve over these people who think their 15 a month gives them the right to purposely grief in the name of rping. See that crap with Black mages all the time too, rping that they are scared of fire like rydia in ff4.

Role-playing in dungeon finder is a no go

Roleplay when questing sure roleplay when in a premade have fun

But in a random you need to do your job right imo

[Aruhen]

Gotta wonder what goes through their head and think that other players who aren't role-playing wont ruin their immersion. Why not just do a low level dungeon without the level sync? Would be nice if there was official RP servers but I guess the playerbase might not be that big to justify it.

[Binaris]

I could see it now, official rp servers. Countless people running around as base classes because it is part of their story. Dragoons who are afraid of heights. Bard who lost their voice *though kind of already a thing*. Scholar's getting into arguments with their fairies mid dungeon and dismissing them.

Im fine with RP, but there is a time and a place. These people are nothing more than trolls playing bad on purpose when they bring their hobby into random dungeons.

[Tazila]

This is one of many reasons why I like FFXIV more than WoW (besides improved gameplay/crafting)


Shamelessly stolen from Reddit. (Original)

And I feel with you on the tank/heal shaming. When everything goes smooth, no one says a thing, maybe a "good job" or two. Once the wipes begin, no one seemingly wants to improve and know if a tact could be used and such. When I first did A4 (Burden normal), I didn't know I was supposed to stay away from the other healer or to soak the balls. Luckily, I got some hints from the co-healer who had done it a few times, saving a lot of wipes.

I feel sorry for the newbie tanks who want to experience the stuff, when the dps (I usually heal) is so trigger happy and want to rush things.

I actually watched a guild break up and argue over party finder, it was kind of amazing. There was like a guild recruitment post, then a post talking about how awful the guild was, then one saying how awful that person was, then people just making their own to make fun of everyone else lol.

[Graeham]

...that isn't role-playing. That's just someone being a prick/troll.

I mean, I'm a role-player myself and I play on Balmung which is the largest unofficial server for role-players to gather. I can't say I've ever seen anyone do anything like that...and when I have they're certainly not the sort of players that I'd classify as 'role-players'.

We have a large Free Company plaguing Balmung that frequently do weird stuff for the sake of pissing people off and when caught out they claim that they're 'just role-playing'. The thing is, they're not role-players - they're the sort of players who act idiotically and then post screenshots of people who fell victim to their griefing elsewhere. They're not above signing up to roulettes purely for the sake of playing terribly on purpose either.