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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Chevelle View Post
    The showing respect to the raiders happens in several ways. I do point them out on what they are doing wrong for instance ( I do this on ventrilo with everyone in the channel ) But I don't tell him "OMG YOU SUCK THATS SOO EASY!" I offer him another way of doing it and try to help him improve instead of treating him like sh!t.

    ....[snip]...

    I think the break idea you have there is pretty good. At this moment we call a break halfway through the raid (after 2 hrs.) unless we are ofcourse wiping on something silly .. I'll push them to keep going at that point for another 15 minutes at least. But we have one 15 minute break. Maybe several smaller breaks might work , I'll definately take this into consideration because it sounds like something that could be nice. (Even for me as a heavy smoker )

    ...[snip]...

    I haven't tried asking my raiders about my performance etc. I did however ask the officers every now and then. Again this is something I could/should start doing. I'll give it some thought at least. I do however analyze their play as much as I can while still doing my own task in the raid. And try to tell them about what I saw and what I think should be done different. I start off by suggesting it. If people do not take the suggestion and keep failing I'll basicly force them to do it a different way.)
    Yeah, i agree entirely on the pointing out when people are wrong - it needs to be done, but I find it can be dangerous territory and my personal approach is "you really cocked up that time lol, i know you're better than that". Semi-guilt trip with a side serve of humour. It works for me, but milage'll obviously vary on style. I think I'd add in "good raid/guild leaders can be a hardarse without being a hardarse" actually, which it sounds like you've probably got but certainly seems like a non-common ability at times =)

    I highly recommend the 5 minute breaks on the hour. You've gotta be strict about the 5 minutes, turning it into the 10-15 minute breaks people are used to really cuts into your time, but if you just think about the average attention span of a human being it really does make a lot of sense. I like to try to look outside the WoW environment for management (time, personnel, motivational, et cetera) approaches and I like the ability to build my RL general organisational skill-set in WoW.

    And yeah, I find asking them about my performance invariably turns it into a dialog of compare+contrast "these are my strengths, these are your strengths, these are my weaknesses, these are your weaknesses" where it's normally so easy for people to close their mind to perceived criticism. Plus I take the PoV that the raid/guild leader should clearly be one of the strongest players to demonstrate that they deserve their role, so it's handy to have a bunch of critics there to keep you on your toes & hopefully you won't instinctively dismiss their criticism when it's done in a mutual dialog scenario =)

    Edit: And I very much agree with Qujam's comment above.
    Last edited by lakhesis; 2011-11-03 at 05:39 PM.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilentStocket View Post
    Promote good performance
    Make baddies wanna kill themselves.
    What he said.

    We only raid twice a week in my guild, so if you're shit you're not coming to the raid.

    I'm a bit of an asshole at times but when i am people generally deserve it. Like spending 30 minutes wiping on BalerocHC because people are being fucking durps about taking crystals properly.

  3. #23
    I agree with a lot of the points here but just figured I'd throw my raid lead experience in here as well.

    From what I've found it's very difficult to be both raid leader and guild master; these roles should be performed by two separate people. The guild master should handle diplomatic relationships and the problems of the guild in general whereas the raid leader handles the problems of raid performance.

    Why is this significant, in my opinion? The raid team has to respect, and in a way, fear the raid leader. The fear of being replaced or called out on vent is good motivation to perform properly, and if you're buddy buddy with them it makes this difficult to do. They begin to think their raid spot is guaranteed because they're pals with the raid leader, which it should never be.

    If done properly the raiders will not want to bother you with problems of guild politics and would rather go to the guild leader for that purpose. Again, this is the role of the guild leader in this situation, to deal with politics and guild relations. He can shoot the shit and be buddy buddy with people in the guild, as long as he doesn't interfere with your raid decisions.

    TLDR - Raid leader is meant to be a hardass, if you need someone to cater to the carebare side of your guild promote someone to guild lead to deal with politics.
    Last edited by Bcons; 2011-11-03 at 06:05 PM.

  4. #24
    Good thread. Only have one piece of advise.

    I raid lead a group with 3 brothers and a cousin, the rest are all peoples I met online, also im the oldest of my bros/cousin. I made a pretty huge mistake in the beginning of this expansion when I decided that we should vote on most issues. Unfortunately the goals of individuals are just that, individual goals. In a group setting you have consider whats the best way of reaching the groups Main goal and in order to do that you will have to be a dick and unfair every now and then. Long story made short I learned there is no such thing as a democracy when raiding.

    The raid leader is DICTACTOR. Remember that anything another raider suggests is just advice/counsel.

    Also reward your committed raiders to show them your appreciation.
    I recently handed out 4 Living Embers to every raider in the group when we achieved Glory of the Firelands Raider as reward for their efforts this tier.

    Amateratzu - US Kel'thuzad
    Juice

    ---------- Post added 2011-11-03 at 01:14 PM ----------

    Bcon beat me to it.

    Once your a nice hardened leader the real test begins... MUAHAHAHAHA

  5. #25
    High Overlord Chevelle's Avatar
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    @Rikhart
    A raider PoV is very much appreciated Rikhart, this thread is not only for GuildMasters or Raid Leaders. I do think a person in the roles described should be as fair as possible. Now do note we are all human and this can be hard at times. I at least find it hard so I think the raiders and people involved should know that too. But things like it should always be up for debate. I talk to people who do not like decisions I make after the raid. This goes for loot council issues or why I benched a person that night.

    @ Qujam
    Thank you for your input. I do not really have a lot to add there.

    @lakhesis
    I think I'd add in "good raid/guild leaders can be a hardarse without being a hardarse" actually, which it sounds like you've probably got but certainly seems like a non-common ability at times =)
    This is what I try to do. And I personally think I am doing a good job at this. I am not an asshole in real life unless I need to be one. And this is the same I do in a raid environment. I won't be very harsh with a person unless they really have it coming. I'll always try the soft way first. Being a hardarse without being a hardarse is a pretty good description in my opinion.

    @Khargillian
    If a person causes wipes all the time by making the same mistake you definately need to change something there. If you tried improving them for that past half hour you should be replacing them if possible indeed. However do ask yourself the question did I do all I could to help this person improve. That is what I try to do. I once was one of those raiders and have not forgotten about that. I do not like being treated as dirt when I try my best either.

    @Bcons
    I do think being both the GM and RL is something difficult. But however not impossible. I think I have managed to take both of those roles upon me and I am doing quite well. The thing is don't have people think they are in the safe zone because they are your friends. I even call out on my real life friends in the raids if there is need to do so and the same goes to people I play with a lot inside the guild. Outside of raids they are friends and they are still friends inside the raid. But they won't get any special treatment however. Although this is sometimes hard to do ... it has to be done.

    @Napoles
    Some people think guilds should be a place where everyone has their say. I try to do this as well... for certain things I ask the raiders to vote and state their opinions. However the raid leader is indeed the "dictator". The system Blizzard has provided us with is a hierarchy and it should be treated as one because that is in my opinion that which works best.
    I am still thinking of ways to reward my raiders (the dedicated ones) but I do not want to do this in any form of loot. I would like to give them "special" benefits though ... maybe things such as guild repairs 24/7.




    Chevelle founder and Guild Master of<Divide and Conquer> @ Frostmane EU
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  6. #26
    My guild has a somewhat odd setup, in that the power is completely centralized around two co-gms. One handles raid leading mainly and one handles the rest of the gm responsibilities. We use a loot council system which the two co-gms handle completely on their own. Our raid leader is an alt of a world top 50 guild that plays with us on his offdays, and its nice to have that perspective when progressing.

    pros: RL's experience, when dealing with loot council the GMs are knowledgable about every class enough to make fair decisions and distribute loot evenly. Everyone in the guild knows and trusts the GMs so 99% of the time there is no dispute over loot handed out to x person over y, and when there is, GMs are understanding and will change their decision appropriately if there is valid cause to. Additionally, the loot council almost always gives themselves last priority on loot so that it is apparent there no bias/exploitation of the system going on. Raid leader maintains discipline, refrains from being offensive when correcting people's mistakes, and does all this without coming across as some power hungry nerd. Part of it is that side this is his alt and less serious than his main guild so that we really end up seeing the best of him while he's raiding with us. He's like the dad we never had :P*

    side comment: I think all raid leaders should try to be like an awesome dad in that they keep their kids humbled, keep em doing well in school (raids lol) and reward em when they do something good and criticize them when they do something bad all while maintaining that awesome attitude that makes very kid want to be like their dad. They should be role models!


    back on topic: the cons

    Raid leader is clearing 7/7 heroic on his main and is used to playing in an environment where everyone is performing to the best of their abilities. When we spend a couple hours wiping to stupid shit on bosses we've had on farm or when we're having lots of trouble on farm content and GM/RL gets into a bad mood it really rubs off on the rest of the raid and detriments our morale. And this obviously hurts our performance as well. It doesn't happen much tho so I dont mind :P


    We're not a super serious guild (only 4/7 heroic, raid two nights a week, and a large percentage of us are alts of people in better guilds) but I have to say it's a dynamic that I've really had the most fun being a part of out of every other guild I've been in. GMs set the atmosphere and attitude off guilds and for that, I thank all the GMs who keep things shipshape in their guilds. Your efforts may seem unnoticed but trust me, we see them. Cheers!

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corjha View Post
    10 commandments of being a guild / raid leader

    1. Rule the guild with an iron fist.
    2. Make sure your best raiders are noted regularly.
    3. Make it a note to call people out over vent in-front of the entire raid.
    4. Require a 90% attendance and benefits if you can make 100% attendance.
    5. Be the raids / guilds friend. Get to know everybody.
    7. Don't be afraid to yell at people.
    8. Teach your guild not to be attached to loot. Make sure that your raiders are friends with each other and are willing to make sacrifices for their fellow raiders.
    9. If you have to remove somebody for being disrespectful make sure that if the situation comes down to a good player being an ass to a bad player, keep the good player kick the bad player.
    10. If progress is not happening, find the problem, and remove it.

    Looks bad on paper, but has been my raid philosophy since 2.0 and works very nicely.
    Wheres 6?

    I think perseverance and patients are huge keys at being a good raid leader, being able to solve critically is also one, trying crazy things can be good if you just keep failing, change is good.

    If you really want to learn the philosophy about what it takes to be a good leader, read the art of war by sun tzu, it is very relate-able even to modern day life.
    Time...line? Time isn't made out of lines. It is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round. ~ Caboose

  8. #28
    I'm GM and RL of my small guild. We have like forty unique accounts in guild, if that. I became GM and RL when our original one burned out and quit the game. With no warning and no expectation, at that. I really didn't expect to be the next GM at all. It kind of just got dropped on me

    Our guild is pretty much just our 10m raid, and some friends who've dropped off alts at some point or another. We take in a lot of friends temporarily if they're between guilds as well.

    We're relatively young (formed at the start of Cata after splitting off from a couple guilds), and were formed entirely around the raid.

    The most important thing for me has been putting my foot down when the time comes. I'm ultimately GM, and this is ultimately my guild. The bottom line is that I put more time into maintaining this guild and raid than anyone else by a wide margin, so in the end, I win. That's been the most instrumental part of running this guild for me. Your guild is never going to entirely agree on anything that really matters, so you eventually have to pick a side and stick with it. You're going to piss some people off, and you won't be able to be friends with everybody.

    The other thing is we promise nothing. As a member of the guild, the only perks you get are 25% AH price BoEs and crafting mats from the gbank, lvl25 benefits (lol), and help with anything you need about your class. We don't offer guild repairs to non-raiders or anything else.

    This keeps people in guild who are friends we get along with. Generally not their mains, but we're really not too concerned with that. Players who are raiders are very clearly raiders, and players who aren't understand they won't be getting raid invites.

    I've gkicked people for being rude, immature and retarded. We don't allow trade trolling, and have a neutral to good relationship with the other guilds on our server. We don't try to poach from other guilds, and they've yet to do so for us.

    I used to be a mean RL in raids. I would yell regularly between wipes and completely shit on people for making dumb mistakes. I've called people retards with downs over vent before. This worked a little bit in the short term, but I've found it really doesn't help and will only kill your raid's focus and morale, which are both very important. Going into t12 I made a point to calm down, be more constructive and more forgiving in raid, and it's helped us out quite a bit. Our efficiency has improved dramatically, and everyone in general gets along better. We ended t11 at 9/13 HM due to persistent personnel issues. In t12, despite taking a full four weeks off, we hit 6/7 HM pre-nerf, and are expecting a H Rag kill this week.

    I think the main reason why all of this works is that we're a small guild, and I really don't flex my power often at all. I'm usually the butt end of jokes, and there are dozens of inside jokes with me on that end. I let it all go to help create a more relaxed atmosphere. This also makes it so that when I do need to put my foot down, it has a much more weight.

    So to sum up, I do whatever I need to do to keep my guild running the way I want it to. This sounds narcissistic and egotistical, but if you're a decent guy running a guild that was shat on your lap out of nowhere, you'll do just fine with that. I get along with most everyone in the guild by being the guy everyone makes fun of and all that, but when something needs to get done, I just do it.

  9. #29
    As a semi-serious/casual raider, your guild sounds like one that I would absolutely love to be in.

    Hope that helps.

  10. #30
    A rarely interesting thread on these forums. Good points all around. Before I share mine, I think we need to set the tone for this discussion:

    1) Being a good raid leader and being a good guild master, in my experience, require two different skillsets. A good guild master excels primarily on social skills; a good raid leader thrives on knowledge and the ability to create solutions. Some of the best raid leaders I've come across were horrible guild masters, and vice versa.
    2) Many paths lead to Rome. Whether decided by culture or group discourse, different guilds can be lead differently and still achieve the same goals. It's important to remember that there is no right or wrong here - what matters is what works best under the given circumstances.

    I'd wager that for any endgame guild the raid leader is much more important than the guild master (case in point: I'd rather join a 7/7 hc guild with a great RL than a 3/7 normal guild with an awesome GM). A good raid leader:

    ...Leads by example: does more DPS than anyone else, makes fewer mistakes than anyone else, is never late, never loses temper, is able to maintain full focus etc.
    ...Is consequent: hands our acknowledgement and critique based on who deserves it; not guild rank, who's more vocal etc.
    ...Is informed: knows all relevant mechanics and abilities
    ...Is methodical: is able to use that knowledge to form ideas, be creative and figure out a way

    The main hurdle of game leadership, in my limited experience, is that you can't talk to people face to face - you can't charm your way in or persuade through appearance, but are limited to a creaky voice in a wire. I'm sure some would argue that you don't have to be the best 'DPS' to lead (figuratively speaking, you can replace that with healing or tanking), but in order to lead you need people's respect - and few things give more respect than when you're consistently beating everyone else.
    Last edited by Lachtobi; 2011-11-04 at 01:45 PM.

  11. #31
    OP

    Some things I do to add to your list. Run World of Logs and review peoples performances. I use this to see rotations, trinket usage, cooldown usage, etc.
    I also review every raiders gear once a week on the armory to ensure people are correctly gemmed, spec'd, glyph'd, and enchanted. One thing I tend to find alot is people not using their profession bonuses.

    These reviews sometimes can help improve the under performing and allow you to fix the situation more privately then in front of the whole raid. Of course my guild is by no means hardcore or even semi hardcore. We raid 4 hours on tuesday and 4 hours on Wednesday. Hardcore guilds might need a different approach.

  12. #32
    After listening to my raiders argue one too many times about how someone should be playing their class, I decided it's high time I get a vice-grip on every class' mechanics. So I started leveling all my alts. I realize I can look these things up but I don't feel comfortable telling someone their business if I don't feel like I can play their class better than they can. (Yeah, it's really cocky for me to say that, but it's not as bad of a stance to take if you can actually back it up...)

    I've currently got 8 of 10 classes at 85 and haven't let a class mechanic argument escalate since.

    (My personal favorite: Nourish won't give you stacks on Baleroc.)

    ---

    I have a surprisingly good sense of when raid cooldowns are needed and when they aren't. On fights like Majordomo and Rhyolith and Beth'tilac's final phases, I request my raiders wait for my command to use their raid walls, which more often than not results in far less gray hairs for everyone.

    ---

    I rock the mic like no one's business on Ragnaros. I'm like an MC leading a square dance, telling people where we're moving.

    ---

    I can tell when people are about to die to something they could've avoided. Myself included...

  13. #33
    High Overlord Chevelle's Avatar
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    First off sorry for the late response from my side, I have been rather busy lately.

    Quote Originally Posted by gakpad View Post
    I think all raid leaders should try to be like an awesome dad in that they keep their kids humbled, keep em doing well in school (raids lol) and reward em when they do something good and criticize them when they do something bad all while maintaining that awesome attitude that makes very kid want to be like their dad. They should be role models!
    I do think this is something to strive for you need to get the respect and trust of your raiders. This is however sometimes a lot harder then it sounds. I am personally still improving myself on this front and trying to get that done.

    Quote Originally Posted by apepi View Post
    If you really want to learn the philosophy about what it takes to be a good leader, read the art of war by sun tzu, it is very relate-able even to modern day life.
    I'll definately have a look and see if I can find this book ... I tend to find those kind of things rather interesting. Thank you.

    Quote Originally Posted by PHsname View Post
    The most important thing for me has been putting my foot down when the time comes. I'm ultimately GM, and this is ultimately my guild. The bottom line is that I put more time into maintaining this guild and raid than anyone else by a wide margin, so in the end, I win. That's been the most instrumental part of running this guild for me. Your guild is never going to entirely agree on anything that really matters, so you eventually have to pick a side and stick with it. You're going to piss some people off, and you won't be able to be friends with everybody.

    The other thing is we promise nothing. As a member of the guild, the only perks you get are 25% AH price BoEs and crafting mats from the gbank, lvl25 benefits (lol), and help with anything you need about your class. We don't offer guild repairs to non-raiders or anything else.

    This keeps people in guild who are friends we get along with. Generally not their mains, but we're really not too concerned with that. Players who are raiders are very clearly raiders, and players who aren't understand they won't be getting raid invites.

    I've gkicked people for being rude, immature and retarded. We don't allow trade trolling, and have a neutral to good relationship with the other guilds on our server. We don't try to poach from other guilds, and they've yet to do so for us.
    Putting your foot down as the GM is sometimes indeed very much needed. Although it can be tough. I am one of those people who TRIES his best to keep everyone happy. And this takes a lot of stress and time sometimes. I've recently started realizing I just can not continu this way. That is also a reason why I put this thread up.

    As for promises , all I promise my raiders is a good environment to improve in. In which we can help eachother and get to the top as a TEAM. Although this often seems more like a goal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Timun View Post
    As a semi-serious/casual raider, your guild sounds like one that I would absolutely love to be in.

    Hope that helps.
    Well ofcourse it helps, Timun. Although we are trying to be a bit more serious then a semi-serious / casual guild. So this also points out to me I have work to be done. Or maybe not ....

    Quote Originally Posted by Lachtobi View Post
    1) Being a good raid leader and being a good guild master, in my experience, require two different skillsets. A good guild master excels primarily on social skills; a good raid leader thrives on knowledge and the ability to create solutions. Some of the best raid leaders I've come across were horrible guild masters, and vice versa.
    2) Many paths lead to Rome. Whether decided by culture or group discourse, different guilds can be lead differently and still achieve the same goals. It's important to remember that there is no right or wrong here - what matters is what works best under the given circumstances.

    I'd wager that for any endgame guild the raid leader is much more important than the guild master (case in point: I'd rather join a 7/7 hc guild with a great RL than a 3/7 normal guild with an awesome GM). A good raid leader:

    ...Leads by example: does more DPS than anyone else, makes fewer mistakes than anyone else, is never late, never loses temper, is able to maintain full focus etc.
    ...Is consequent: hands our acknowledgement and critique based on who deserves it; not guild rank, who's more vocal etc.
    ...Is informed: knows all relevant mechanics and abilities
    ...Is methodical: is able to use that knowledge to form ideas, be creative and figure out a way
    Thank you for your input, and I am happy you find this thread interesting. I do agree that a GM and RL are two different tasks requiring different skillsets. However I do think they can be combined. As you might have figured out I do both of these jobs in my guilds and am rather successfull. I would not mind giving one of them up because ofcourse it is a lot of work. But I think in many aspects the roles are similiar. As a raidleader and a GM I have the respect of at least most of the people in my guild. Some of them sometimes seem to lack it but I'll set that straight rather quick whenever they become disrespectfull

    I will however agree with you that a raidleader is at least from a raiders perspective more important then a GM. But the things a GM does behind the screen tend to go unnoticed ... there is a lot going on behind the screens for both these roles. And both tasks require quite some time spent in-game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dagreightone View Post
    Some things I do to add to your list. Run World of Logs and review peoples performances. I use this to see rotations, trinket usage, cooldown usage, etc.
    I also review every raiders gear once a week on the armory to ensure people are correctly gemmed, spec'd, glyph'd, and enchanted. One thing I tend to find alot is people not using their profession bonuses.
    Mostly my officers check their designated team of raiders out. The healing officer for instance checks his healers on armory on a weekly basis. We do not keep world of logs. Basicly because I have too much on my hands I don't run it and noone else has bothered. But I do look at data in Skada mainly at the moment and this is working quite well. I do think running world of logs (for me personally) would be a bit too much of the good stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by DeanyKong View Post
    After listening to my raiders argue one too many times about how someone should be playing their class, I decided it's high time I get a vice-grip on every class' mechanics. So I started leveling all my alts. I realize I can look these things up but I don't feel comfortable telling someone their business if I don't feel like I can play their class better than they can. (Yeah, it's really cocky for me to say that, but it's not as bad of a stance to take if you can actually back it up...)

    1. I've currently got 8 of 10 classes at 85 and haven't let a class mechanic argument escalate since.
    (My personal favorite: Nourish won't give you stacks on Baleroc.)
    2. I have a surprisingly good sense of when raid cooldowns are needed and when they aren't. On fights like Majordomo and Rhyolith and Beth'tilac's final phases, I request my raiders wait for my command to use their raid walls, which more often than not results in far less gray hairs for everyone.
    3. I rock the mic like no one's business on Ragnaros. I'm like an MC leading a square dance, telling people where we're moving.
    4. I can tell when people are about to die to something they could've avoided. Myself included...
    I do think some kind of knowledge is very needed but I think you should give your role officers something to do as well. Right now you are taking too much hay on your fork. (I hope that was the right saying ) I used to do things like that but it became too much so I have my officers doing such things. I do have basic knowledge of most classes and speccs and extended knowledge of at least 5 of them because I have 5 level 85's at this moment.

    As for sense with raid cooldowns, I either do this myself (depends on the fight) or have my healers for instance decide on this. They know when damage is becoming tough to heal. And this way I can do what the raidleader should be doing. Have an overview on the raid and just look at people and check their positioning.

    As for the raidleading itself, yeah I am pretty much doing the same you do. I am constantly shouting stuff out. And for fights where there is too much to shout out for just me I assign officers or raiders to call certain things out as well. Else I'll be doing too much at the same time and cannot keep my eyes on the raid.

    I am not a psychic. I can only look this up in the logs for others most of the time. For myself I usually know what I did wrong or what went wrong though.




    Chevelle founder and Guild Master of<Divide and Conquer> @ Frostmane EU
    Also please follow me on Twitter

  14. #34
    I've actually started putting a lot of thought into this. I've been leading for 7 years and now have 3 teams under my team in the guild and decided to finally put my leading methodology to "paper." I did a few articles that when read as a whole, imho of course, creates a well rounded and successful raid leader in WoW. I would love the experienced leaders here to help add the tips/tricks/full articles to this resource. The more we help the new / existing raid leaders adopt good practices, the better we are all off in the long run. Less nerfs to content ftw imho.

    http://www.iHazLead.com

  15. #35
    The way I guild lead and raid lead is mostly to everyone's standards here.

    Decide ahead of time what we will be accomplishing, go through and check with everyone that they understand and can meet the requirements of raiding and time schedule. Personally assist in helping everyone (easier in 10m than 25m) understand encounters, mechanics, and their role. I always assist with reforging, enchanting, gemming and rotations with classes to optimize their DPS.

    I take the time to help all my raiders because if I personally know they are going to perform well by first hand knowledge then I have no worries in raid. By then its purely on if you kill it or not and fixing minor details and nothing about them personally. Once in a while I get a bad player in the batch that won't put the time or effort into character investment so once a new player pokes his head in for recruiting I throw them into the mix and seat the bad.

    I am fair with the bad, I say "I appriciate your effort in our raids and we all are grateful for how much we've achieved, but our guild is always progressing inside and outside of raid. We are always looking for talented players that can prove themselves and benefit our raid, you're more than welcome to stay with us in case we need you, but for now you're free to look for a new guild and/or raid team. I wish you the best of luck and if you need any help let me know."

    You must always remember you're the leader, you call the shots and if those who agreed to follow order disapprove then they can find somewhere else to go. Just make sure your calls are for the benefit of the raid and always lend an ear to opinions.

  16. #36
    when we raid we usually have everyone with input on a boss when progressing. we listen to each other and discuss which is the right one. im usually the one calling stuff during the fight. our group works well together because we mesh together. we make fun of each other and we all laugh about it. its about finding the right people. when our spriest quit we found someone that was compatible with the group first before skill. everyone in the raid knows that they are replaceable including myself and the gm(im not the gm) if they dont perform to the level that we are used to and imo it makes them stay at the top of their game.

  17. #37
    Our raid has a practice that I've found helps us improve exponentially.

    If we get stuck on a progression boss one night, I will spend the next morning looking at my logs and compiling a list of my own mistakes. I go on our guild forums and put together a post about what I personally was doing wrong, and how I personally plan to improve my performance the next time. Occasionally I will pair this with a threat to not show up next raid night unless I see some introspection from the rest of the team. This usually sparks a thread where everyone looks at their performance and bounces ideas off of one another. And the next time we get together we progress, sometimes just to the next phase but often to a kill.

    Nobody gets criticized or ends up feeling bad, we all build one another up, and we all take our performance to the next level.

  18. #38
    I would highly suggest not doing both the GM work and Raid Leading.

    GMs are in place to control the roster. Their goals are to improve overall quality of the Guild. Typically, GMs should be "liked".

    Raid Leaders must make the raid environment as efficient as possible. Ensure buffs, pots, flasks, rotations, assignments, CDs, positioning, and all the other aspects of strategy are in place. They must be able to add/remove raiders at a whim if progression demands it. Raid Leaders should be respected (but not necessarily liked).

    Raid Leaders should never have to deal with Guild drama because they are the most important people in your Guild - so you need them to focus on their job!

  19. #39
    I completely agree with Superdooper that the skill sets can be different. Someone who's good at raid leading isn't necessarily good at GM logistics or might not enjoy it.. the same way a great player doesn't necessarily make a great raid leader. That being said, I do both and love it. Find your perfect balance, delegate annoying chores to your officers, and go get em! -- www.ihazlead.com for more of my thoughts on leading /ducks from flames.

  20. #40
    Moderator LocNess's Avatar
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    I guild lead and raid lead, first time this expansion (besides raid leading back in WotLK). I tried to make it a democracy and all nice and stuff at first. It is a mistake. Be an asshole if needbe, boost the guild, not the individual needs. Replace those who are needed. We are currently going through the changing phase and it is fun....
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