Who will win in 1-on-1 combat: Darth Vader Vs Sauron (with one ring)

[Cashcowcow]

Vader Step 1)*Picks up Sauron*
Step 2)*Throws Over a Cliff, Saron climbs back up*
Step 3) Repeat till empiral forces conquer Mordor
Step 4) Profit

[trotdawg2k]

Lemme guess, you've never read any of the other books about Sauron or Morgoth right? Oh and you forgot some of Vader's powers. He can also use the dark side of the force to continuously stitch his body back together whenever he takes a hit. That being said, Vader would still lose.

Okay okay okay. Let me make this EXTREMELY simple.

Long ago in Lord of the Rings, a powerful god called Melkor decided to turn bad. He renamed himself Morgoth. Before Morgoth existed, the universe was perfect. Evil as a concept did not exist. He is the source of all evil everywhere. Every bad thought, every bit of anger, every negative emotion or deed, it all comes from Morgoth. He created evil as a concept, he is pure evil.

The dark side of the force is not magical, it is science, and has been explained as such multiple times in Star Wars lore. If Morgoth and Star Wars existed in the same universe, that means Morgoth created the dark side of the force.

He has ultimate dominion over all evil. He can make the dark side not exist anymore. He can take away Vader's anger, the source of his strength. Vader is such a fearful creature he would become a servant of Morgoth upon laying eyes on him.With the one ring, Sauron = Morgoth. Vader would instantly lose his will to fight, and worship Sauron, because he IS the dark side.

TL: DR Sauron is literally Vader's god.

Your partially correct. In the Silmarillion, Eru (God) is alone and then sings into existance his Valar (Arch-Angles) and his Maiar (Normal Angles). Then with the help of his Valar, they all sang Eru (Middle Earth/Earth) into existence. Melkor (Lucifer), the strongest of the Valar, instead of singing in harmony with the rest of the Valar, sang of discord and chaos, thus creating all the evils of the world. After Melkor fell, he was renamed Morgoth, and he was imprisoned for over 10,000 years in the Void (Hell). When he was released, he acted all good and started corrupting some of the Maiar. Morgoth's chief lieutenant was a Maiar named Sauron.

So therefore, the "movie Sauron" was a paltry example of how powerful he really was. Sauron had the ability to change forms at will with the One Ring. When he made the One Ring, he poured most of his Essence into the Ring. With the Ring in his possesion, he as all his former abilities, such as the ability to coorce minds, change shapes, change his forms, and control all lesser forms of life, including the Balrogs, who were Maiar of fire that Morgoth corrupted, and the dragons - winged and no-none winged dragons.

Plus, the fact that the Force was explained in The Phantom Menace to make it more science and biology than lore and magic shows that since its more of a superior technology, that while its not something the everyday person has, it is a mortal ability. So Darth Vader, while he does have all kinds of awesome powers, its all mortal powers. Sauron, being the same as an Angel, could easily defeat anything mortal that threatened him. Not to mention the fact, that in order to even remove the Ring from Sauron's finger, it took the combined efforts of the Hosts of Gondor, Arnor, Lothlorien, Khazad-Dum, the Noldor Elves, Rivendale and the Grey Havens. And after all those forces, the only 3 to survive the encounter with Sauron was Isuldur, Elrond, and Cirdan. Even Gil-Gilad, the last High King of the Noldor Elves, and the forger of the 9 Rings for the Men, the 7 Rings for the Dwarven Kings, and the 3 Rings of the Elves, was killed by Sauron.

The power that the Noldor Elves wielded was IMMENSE to say the least. The Noldor Elves were the Elves of the First Age that fought with Morgoth, his Dragons, his Balrogs, and his other minions. Cirdan, one of the survivors of the attack on Sauron, was one of the oldest living beings in Middle Earth, being even older than the Sun and the Moon. Gil-Gilad, was born in the First Age, so was one of the survivors of the War of Wrath, the war that destroyed Beleriand.

[Youarefired]

Star Wars has nothing on The Lord of the Rings. Sauron will win.

[Pool of the Dead]

Darth wins, Force grip Saurons ring, removes from finger, proceeds to assfuck him with his own mace.

Profit.

[OrcsRLame]

Your partially correct. In the Silmarillion, Eru (God) is alone and then sings into existance his Valar (Arch-Angles) and his Maiar (Normal Angles). Then with the help of his Valar, they all sang Eru (Middle Earth/Earth) into existence. Melkor (Lucifer), the strongest of the Valar, instead of singing in harmony with the rest of the Valar, sang of discord and chaos, thus creating all the evils of the world. After Melkor fell, he was renamed Morgoth, and he was imprisoned for over 10,000 years in the Void (Hell). When he was released, he acted all good and started corrupting some of the Maiar. Morgoth's chief lieutenant was a Maiar named Sauron.

So therefore, the "movie Sauron" was a paltry example of how powerful he really was. Sauron had the ability to change forms at will with the One Ring. When he made the One Ring, he poured most of his Essence into the Ring. With the Ring in his possesion, he as all his former abilities, such as the ability to coorce minds, change shapes, change his forms, and control all lesser forms of life, including the Balrogs, who were Maiar of fire that Morgoth corrupted, and the dragons - winged and no-none winged dragons.

Plus, the fact that the Force was explained in The Phantom Menace to make it more science and biology than lore and magic shows that since its more of a superior technology, that while its not something the everyday person has, it is a mortal ability. So Darth Vader, while he does have all kinds of awesome powers, its all mortal powers. Sauron, being the same as an Angel, could easily defeat anything mortal that threatened him. Not to mention the fact, that in order to even remove the Ring from Sauron's finger, it took the combined efforts of the Hosts of Gondor, Arnor, Lothlorien, Khazad-Dum, the Noldor Elves, Rivendale and the Grey Havens. And after all those forces, the only 3 to survive the encounter with Sauron was Isuldur, Elrond, and Cirdan. Even Gil-Gilad, the last High King of the Noldor Elves, and the forger of the 9 Rings for the Men, the 7 Rings for the Dwarven Kings, and the 3 Rings of the Elves, was killed by Sauron.

The power that the Noldor Elves wielded was IMMENSE to say the least. The Noldor Elves were the Elves of the First Age that fought with Morgoth, his Dragons, his Balrogs, and his other minions. Cirdan, one of the survivors of the attack on Sauron, was one of the oldest living beings in Middle Earth, being even older than the Sun and the Moon. Gil-Gilad, was born in the First Age, so was one of the survivors of the War of Wrath, the war that destroyed Beleriand.

I bow to your superior lore skills. I'm okay with being partially correct though, it would still be an ultimate godstomp no matter how you slice it.

[Wynnyelle]

Considering that Sauron got shit on when he got his ring finger chopped off in that one part from the first movie (I know it didn't kill him or anything, but still...), I would think that Darth Vader would kick his ass pretty easily.

[ZenX]

"Different realms of existence, converging of such entities into a common realm is irrelevant, and due to discontinuities between the source of their power upon such convergence, the result would be an unknown."

TL;DR: Stop trying to get villains of two different universes to fight each other, its stupid not fun, seeing as you try to argue on a matter of fantasy using some supposed "facts" that would contradict each other. In addition, its extremely juvenile.

[OrcsRLame]

I guess it all comes down to which universe the 1-on-1 combat takes place then. If it takes place in a universe where the very concept of evil and power are bestowed upon a single magical being with magical powers, and all those powers are bestowed, in a single ring, to one character - then yes, that one character will win. You're essentially saying "In a 1v1 between the most powerful being in creation and X, who would win?"

But, if the combat was to take place in a realistic universe, where concepts such as emotion are internal, not externally influenced and/or created, then Vader would win. Vader, as defined by his trilogy, beats Sauron, as defined by his trilogy.


Sauron would win in his Universe, only because it defines internal concepts, such as emotion, and portions of nature, to be under the control of a singular all powerful being (who, it must be said, is not all-powerful enough to actually not get himself killed).

Vader would win in his Universe through strength and control of natural elements, not require "... and a Wizard did it" to become all powerful, and still be the only person strong enough to defeat himself.

Put them in our universe, and Vader still wins.

I'm not 100% on this, but I don't even understand how Sauron could exist outside of his own universe. To me that seems like trying to put Green Lanterns in a universe that doesn't have the power of will, it's a major does not compute moment to me.

So I don't really think this fight could happen in our universe. Not to mention we have no idea how Darth Vader would react to a universe where the force doesn't exist.

The easiest way to do a comparison like this is taking both fighters at their strongest, where the rules of both universes apply. I can't imagine a Sauron vs Vader fight in our universe, a place devoid of the force and magic. Also, "You're essentially saying "In a 1v1 between the most powerful being in creation and X, who would win?"" Yeah, I know, that's why I made the sick newborn pigeon vs a titan comparison.

---------- Post added 2011-11-03 at 04:44 AM ----------

"Different realms of existence, converging of such entities into a common realm is irrelevant, and due to discontinuities between the source of their power upon such convergence, the result would be an unknown."

TL;DR: Stop trying to get villains of two different universes to fight each other, its stupid not fun, seeing as you try to argue on a matter of fantasy using some supposed "facts" that would contradict each other. In addition, its extremely juvenile.

It's what the thread is about. If you don't like the topic maybe it would be better if you don't post anything at all instead of putting down everyone that enjoys these sorts of discussions. Also, I greatly disagree with your quote. Some things can be calculated to the point that there is no reasonable doubt as to the result.

For example, Call of Duty vs Dragonball Z universes. In particular, Soap Mactavish vs Super Saiyan Goku. Soap is a highly skilled British SAS operative, but he's basically a normal human. SS Goku has canonically been shown to have a minimum of 284 times the power required to destroy an earth sized planet, with speed, physical durability, stamina, hearing, vision, and reflexes roughly equivalent to his destructive power.

No reasonable argument can be made for Soap being able to defeat SS Goku. An argument could be made, as anything can technically be argued, but it would be a very very silly argument.

[crawdaddy029]

The Force is anything and everything, the 1 ring is invalid as it only commands the other rings. Vader cannot lose.

but who would win. the enterprise (with Kirk) vs the millennium falcon.

[etubrutei]

The Force is anything and everything, the 1 ring is invalid as it only commands the other rings. Vader cannot lose.

but who would win. the enterprise (with Kirk) vs the millennium falcon.

um enterprise can take out a damn deathstar

[Shalidor]

Hi. Some of you who frequnt the TOR forums may have seen some of my posts. My username over there is Jorander. I have almost 17k posts in less than a year, and I am basically a hard-core star wars fan and a moderate Lord of the Rings fan. I read the LotR books, the first non-priated edition in fact. I have also read Silmarillion and others.

Vader powers: He can heal himself of terrible wounds through the force, so long as he is angry. He can even do this as he fights. His force strikes can crush bones and rend metal in ways that would require several tons of force to do so. Can also wrap force lightning into a ball of telekinetic power that will explode when it hits something, making a blast that can kill pretty much anything caught in it. His saber fighting style is Shien/Djem So, which is all about counter-attacks against blaster and lightsabers, along with incredibly strong and wide strikes.

Suit: Makes him stronger, not weaker. He didn't lose midi-chlorians and even if he did it wouldn't matter. It also stops lightsaber strikes and gives him increases phsyical strength.

Lightsaber: Red crystals are synth-crystals. They have more cutting power and can short out other lightsaber blades, but can also short out themselves if they come into contact with other lightsabers.

Sauron, with no ring: He can exert his will anywhere in the world that there is corruption, and completely take that person over. He can only be affected by the magics of middle-earth, and only the strongest wizards can affect him. So long as the ring is not destroyed, he is truly unkillable. He can manifest sorceries anywhere in the world that there is strong corruption, and by sorceries, we are talking world-altering magics. It is scary stuff. The only kind of mystical effects that can actually harm Sauron is magic of the Secret Fire. You can't even attack him in this form, save to destroy the ring. Vader would put the ring on, and then fall under the control of the spirit of Sauron because he doesn't have the required virtue to resist it, because he isn't a Hobbit, Elf, Wizard, or ancient Numenorian, Numenorian King, or one of the Valar. Sauron wins.

With the Ring: You have literally turned him into a God. An evil, incredibly angry God that controls all evil, because all evil is nothing more than an extension of himself. He cann't even be harmed at this point, save by the leader of the Order of Wizard wielding the Flame of Anor, or by the King of Numenor wielding a blade with holy virtue and power. Immune to anything that isn't what I described above, and also not immune to other Valar. Sauron wins.

I made a post that was 10 times longer than this, but I lost it because it auto-logged me and I didn't copy it. I was sour about that. So this is the super short version.

[igame]

"Different realms of existence, converging of such entities into a common realm is irrelevant, and due to discontinuities between the source of their power upon such convergence, the result would be an unknown."

TL;DR: Stop trying to get villains of two different universes to fight each other, its stupid not fun, seeing as you try to argue on a matter of fantasy using some supposed "facts" that would contradict each other. In addition, its extremely juvenile.

Thank you for showing up Mr. Fun Police.

OT: Poll still pretty close.

[crawdaddy029]

um enterprise can take out a damn deathstar

and the Falcon can't? Return of the Jedi anyone?

[OrcsRLame]

and the Falcon can't? Return of the Jedi anyone?

He means with raw firepower, not attacking a weakpoint.

[Mizzeeh]

That fight is easily settled by the empire blowing up middle earth with the Death Star! It'll be funny tho...orcs shooting arrows at giant titanium robots

Ewoks seemed to do fine

[Bigitybones]

anybody who actually read the books knows sauron is the clear winner

[Deleted]

With the One Ring, Sauron has the powers of a God. The only thing that can beat him is his own arrogance.

If I recall Sauron was defeated by a Human with broken sword when he was wearing the ring. But anyway I have understood that there is no stronger power than Force, so Darth Vader would win, though not very easily.

[Piemaster42]

It'll be funny tho...orcs shooting arrows at giant titanium robots

Ewoks would liek to have a word with u...

[Obamadin]

Sauron would kick Darth Vaders Ass.

End of discussion

[4KhazModan]

Lightsaber would cut any weapon or armor sauron would attempt to use. So eventually D-viddy chop up sauron.