[4.3] Power Torrent VS. Heartsong

[Deleted]

Thanks guys, much appreciated.

[Emaias]

does PT affect Shield stacking with the added SP?

Cant tell if serious.... I didnt know Spell Power made our shields stack..... Thought that was mastery.... guess I have been doing it wrong....

[Valamivan]

Cant tell if serious.... I didnt know Spell Power made our shields stack..... Thought that was mastery.... guess I have been doing it wrong....

Well... technically INT or SP does make your heals bigger, and bigger heals leave bigger shields. So yes, PT affects the shields your mastery leaves but I'm not sure that's the right path to judge the enchant's usefulness.

[Tobley]

I already use Heartsong.
With the changes to JotP, Heartsong will be superior.

Like many have already said, Power Torrent is not controllable.
I might like to find the probability of Power Torrent proccing when you need it. I would guess it would be rather low.
Heartsong will pretty much always be useful. I don't generally find myself at 100% mana at any point but the start of the fight, and that doesn't last long.
Before I switched, I remember PT proccing often during completely worthless periods, reducing the overall effectiveness of the enchant.

[Skulldancer]

I already use Heartsong.
With the changes to JotP, Heartsong will be superior.

Like many have already said, Power Torrent is not controllable.
I might like to find the probability of Power Torrent proccing when you need it. I would guess it would be rather low.
Heartsong will pretty much always be useful. I don't generally find myself at 100% mana at any point but the start of the fight, and that doesn't last long.
Before I switched, I remember PT proccing often during completely worthless periods, reducing the overall effectiveness of the enchant.

do u use it on the PTR? I tried goin back to it on 4.2 and it just felt "wrong"

[Nekovivie]

Hmmm.. have used PT for months now, but with the spirit becoming alot better with the judgement fix, I'm going to go to HS for progress.

With more regen you can throw more heals anyway, which makes up for the throughput :P

[Kurzior]

When all else fails apply math, scary concept right?

Power Torrent gives 500 intellect on ~45s icd. We get roughly 15 mana per point of intellect assuming you use the intellect/mana meta gem. You do use that meta gem, don't you? Assume a character in 378 gear, so roughly 6k intellect and 2.5k spirit.
Replenishment - 500int*15mpi*(1%mana/10seconds)*(12seconds/45seconds) = 10 Mp5
Divine Plea (glyphed) - 500int*15mpi*(18%mana/120seconds) = 56 Mp5
Increase to Spirit regen - [2.5kSpirit*sqrt(6500int)*0.0083625-2.5kspirit*sqrt(6000int)*0.0083625]*12seconds/45seconds = 17 Mp5
Increase to Spirit regen in patch 4.3 = 22 Mp5
*Divine Plea numbers assume DP and Power Torrent overlap completely and the cooldowns coincide.

Assuming about 66% uptime on heartsong, regen from spirit is currently Spirit*Sqrt(Int)*0.0083625. Assume a character with 6k intellect (roughly 378 item level).

Heartsong (patch 4.2) - 85 Mp5
Heartsong (patch 4.3) - 111 Mp5

Power Torrent (patch 4.2) - 83 Mp5 (assumes optimal use)
Power Torrent (patch 4.3) - 89 Mp5 (assumes optimal use)

Basically, from the perspective of raw regen, both enchants are identical in 4.2, although if you can't track power torrent procs to work with divine plea, you're still better off with heartsong. In 4.3, heartsong will be better. Keep in mind though, that PT also gives the passive healing boost when it is up, so in theory, you will use less mana during its duration.

I suspect PT will still be competitive in 4.3, but we may see a lot of holy pallies switch back to heartsong. Currently, it doesn't really matter which one you use, as they both give very similar results.

Edit: This is just napkin math, by the way. Feel free to correct me if I've left anything obvious out.

[Valamivan]

Output-wise PT will have the chance of getting wasted (proccing in low-healing periods will not benefit much) - while HS is never wasted except when you are at 100% mana (which doesn't happen often post-pull). If you time your DP to it (which you really shouldn't do, you should time to the encounter not procs) then it's guaranteed to be wasted every ~2mins (you don't wanna heal much during DP or you can end up losing more mana than you gain). Regen wise it's barely equal (and even only when you time it to DP and such - which again you shouldn't be doing, you shall time to the encounter), and will be far inferior next patch.
So in short again: HS, no doubt about it

[meroko]

Power Torrent is better overall if you are smart about it...such as making a PowerAura for the proc, timing your mana cooldowns with it (Divine Plea returns a lot more during PT)

Personally I feel it always will be the stronger of the two.

[Guenevere]

I use PT now and plan to continue doing so in 4.3.

Maybe HS will be slightly more regen, but I don't tend to have mana problems anyway and overall there is more benefit from intellect than spirit.

[Nekovivie]

Power Torrent is better overall if you are smart about it...such as making a PowerAura for the proc, timing your mana cooldowns with it (Divine Plea returns a lot more during PT)

If only it were that simple, I often have PT proc when I need to heal the tank, I can't just suddenly "ok you guys, heal tank for me aswell as raid, thanks"

[Valamivan]

Power Torrent is better overall if you are smart about it...such as making a PowerAura for the proc, timing your mana cooldowns with it (Divine Plea returns a lot more during PT)

There's a perfect post on EJ from yesterday about the two enchants. HS will give you roughly 70 spirit-worth more regen than PT if you time your DP [and AT] to it (which you shouldn't do), or ~90 spirit-worth if you ignore it with regards to DP/AT - on the other hand PT will net you a gain equivalent of ~150 spellpower and ~38 crit. This is post-4.3 and it's pretty accurate.

Never compare proc INT like it was constant INT. 100 INT constant will always be far superior to 400 INT proc with 25% uptime, never treat it as equal. "INT superior to Spi" will hold true when both constant, but will be far harder to judge if they are procs.

[Evalonne]

I prefer Heartsong. If I have to rely on the alignment of the stars for power torrent to proc when I need to DP or I need more throughput, then something's wrong. I've always preferred on-use items to be int and random procs to be spirit.

[jeepguy16]

Glad to see some others using HS. Couple healers in my guild have been giving me crap about using HS over PT for a while now. As I told them, PT never seems to be up when I need it or just increased my over healing, while HS is always giving me mana back. Sure, I rarely find myself oom but when pushing new content, I really prefer the choice that having more mana gives me, being able to throw another heal or bigger heal when needed.
And as far as timing it with DP...yeah I have enough going on as RL...don't need more crap to pay attention to.