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  1. #1

    Getting info about the game & the NDA

    I've had the intent multiple times today to make a sarcastic, angry or trolling thread about SWTOR. I also contemplated making a long thorough explanation about what I went through today and what my findings were. In the end I decided not to on all of them cause I'm not like that in nature and a wall of text helps noone.

    So let me say it without rancour in a concise way: I think getting decent info about this game is too damn hard and the NDA is a contemptable mechanic that may very well backfire on the game. In fact I'm kinda hoping it does backfire in some way, cause if all companies were like this we'd still be in the dark ages.

    I got paranoid at some point and wondered if they were hiding some enormous gaping class and gameplay flaws, but figured even with the NDA something like that would have probably come out. But if they are not sitting on a major disaster, than what the hell have they got to hide? The cynic in me wonders if they have stipulated a plan that they are going to only create massive hype in the last few weeks and ride that hype and the strength of the name to a decent number of initial sales cause they think that that is more important (short term getting their money back) than it is to create a lasting SW-MMO that has a decent future and can compete with WoW. I dread thinking that this tactic may work and other companies start copying it. We need more open info about games, not less.

    For me in the end, not being able to find an answer to the simple question: which spec/class is/are the ranged dps one(s)? led me to give up on my search for that info, and also on the game. Cause I don't want anything to do with a company that hides thier game behind an NDA for this long and prevents me from getting info about a game they expect me to want to buy in less than 2 months. If I can't find out about a game beforehand and it is expected of me that I buy in to the initial hype and not contemplate what I want to do in the game and what I can expect then I say, no thank you, you can keep your game.

    I may or may not look in to info about the game once it's launched and the real reviews start rolling in and I can hear positive and negative info about it, but for now at least, I won't be bothering with it any more. I tried to get interested in this game, and come away thoroughly disappointed.

  2. #2
    Pit Lord philefluxx's Avatar
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    If you cant find what you stated your looking for, thats your fault as that stuff is out there.


    The NDA is in place to protect the story in a story driven MMO, not to hide something.

    Wait until the game launches, you obviously dont need to be there at launch if nothing you have read or seen under the NDA makes you interested.


    Lastly, the market is extremely competitive and Im sorry but to many companies like Blizzard are simply implementing other games ideas in hopes that people who have invested years upon years of their lives will not leave if they provide the features of other games.

    Its really not that big a deal, but to each their own.

  3. #3
    I might suggest a community college course on using search engines.

    Class roles are widely available, and were published in game magazines for awhile now

    Heres a nifty picture link (it's humungous, so didn't insert it). Oh and I found it with Google < 1 min.

    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/--yYaylJ0my...or-classes.jpg

  4. #4
    umm dude the official site has LOADS of info about all the classes planets races AC roles and not to mention there are LOADS of unofficial NDA breaking sites that if you look hard enough you will find.

    But i will just say this because i see troll in your wall of text(just another WoW fanboi trying to downplay the competition)

    NDA here is a play by play over the last few months

    wow has stolen quite a few ideas from TOR and dont tell me that they had them in the works for a long time now, if they did they woulda had that datamined LONG before the blizcon anouncement

    TOR hey we are excited to say that we will have a release date set for end year 2011

    WOW hey guys LOOK we are going to let you kill Deathwing now and give you lots of lore goodies so you dont leave

    TOR hey guys we are glad to announce that TOR will b released Dec 2011

    WOW hey guys guess what we have a NEW expansion coming out and guess what we give you PANDAS and POKEMON
    ALSO if you act NOW buy a 12 MO sub and we will give you our TOP anticipated game Diablo III FREE AND you can get into our Panda beta

    SO as you can see there is a VERY strong reason for the NDA still in effect WoW is desperate and does not want to lose a good portion of its player base. We all know that there are WoW players (prolly devs too) in the TOR beta and are slowly leaking info as well as reporting to blizz what is going on in the world of TOR

    so here is my wall of text to battle with yours, and a TL;DR look and you shall find what you seek all the info you want is right at your finger tips

  5. #5
    Scarab Lord Trollsbane's Avatar
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    Enough WoW vs TOR.

    OP, if you want to find the info, you can find the info. All ranged specs are available to be seen in the main swtor site. The AC page explains all of that. If you didn't look at that closely for your answers, or read any posts that explain all of that, you certainly cannot blame Bioware. Towards the top of the info sticky in these forums has all of those answers, an they are widely available in the swtor forums as well.
    Last edited by Trollsbane; 2011-11-03 at 07:37 PM.

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  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by xskarma View Post
    I've had the intent multiple times today to make a sarcastic, angry or trolling thread about SWTOR. I also contemplated making a long thorough explanation about what I went through today and what my findings were. In the end I decided not to on all of them cause I'm not like that in nature and a wall of text helps noone.

    So let me say it without rancour in a concise way: I think getting decent info about this game is too damn hard and the NDA is a contemptable mechanic that may very well backfire on the game. In fact I'm kinda hoping it does backfire in some way, cause if all companies were like this we'd still be in the dark ages.

    I got paranoid at some point and wondered if they were hiding some enormous gaping class and gameplay flaws, but figured even with the NDA something like that would have probably come out. But if they are not sitting on a major disaster, than what the hell have they got to hide? The cynic in me wonders if they have stipulated a plan that they are going to only create massive hype in the last few weeks and ride that hype and the strength of the name to a decent number of initial sales cause they think that that is more important (short term getting their money back) than it is to create a lasting SW-MMO that has a decent future and can compete with WoW. I dread thinking that this tactic may work and other companies start copying it. We need more open info about games, not less.

    For me in the end, not being able to find an answer to the simple question: which spec/class is/are the ranged dps one(s)? led me to give up on my search for that info, and also on the game. Cause I don't want anything to do with a company that hides thier game behind an NDA for this long and prevents me from getting info about a game they expect me to want to buy in less than 2 months. If I can't find out about a game beforehand and it is expected of me that I buy in to the initial hype and not contemplate what I want to do in the game and what I can expect then I say, no thank you, you can keep your game.

    I may or may not look in to info about the game once it's launched and the real reviews start rolling in and I can hear positive and negative info about it, but for now at least, I won't be bothering with it any more. I tried to get interested in this game, and come away thoroughly disappointed.
    A strict NDA is an extremely smart move and is truly the only way to deal with a growing % of whiney ass MMO players who will BETA test a game and think it is a free trial and start spewing useless bullshit on the internet about aspects that may/may not change before release.

    There is plenty of information out there for a consumer to make a rational choice, > 750k pre-orders prove this point. If there isn't enough specific information for you, then wait til release and you can get all the info, feedback ect. that you like.

    Don't cry about BW being a smart company trying to move into a new market and protecting their ass legally from being slandered by every other fanboy who doesn't like competition for their game of choice.

    I bet you'll end up pre-ordering and getting in a couple days later than the rest of us who have had faith from the get go and start complaining "How are you level 30!!!!~!! not fair not fair!!"

  7. #7
    On the accusation I need a search engine course, well thanks for the compliment, but I'm rather above average in that department, and I could not find any easy accurate links that were recent I did find some stuff from 2009/10, but I want to know what is going on right now, not months ago when stuff was still being finalised =/

    Quote Originally Posted by Trollsbane View Post
    Enough WoW vs TOR.

    OP, if you want to find the info, you can find the info. All ranged specs are available to be seen in the main swtor site. The AC page explains all of that. If you didn't look at that closely for your answers, or read any posts that explain all of that, you certainly cannot blame Bioware. Towards the top of the info sticky in these forums has all of those answers, an they are widely available in the swtor forums as well.


    Picked out your post cause you're a mod and had the point I mostly wanted to talk about.

    1) I hope you didn't mean for me to read through the entire "from various sources etc." thread, cause that thing is HUGE

    2) First place I went was the official forums, I suggest you look hard at those descriptions, cause they tell you diddley squat, an example from the Sith Inquisitor, the one I deemed most likely based on the info I did find and looking at freaking armor type, however little that says >.<


    Quote Originally Posted by Combat Tactics
    Whether facing a traitorous fellow Sith or a crowd of Republic soldiers, the Inquisitor fights with unlimited fury to create a storm of destruction. Expertise in conducting Force energies further allows Inquisitors to draw upon the life essence of themselves and others. This energy can be channeled to bolster their powers, harm their foes, and even to reinvigorate their allies. An Inquisitor’s skills with a Lightsaber are equally impressive. Often wielding a double-bladed Lightsaber, Inquisitors use quick, guileful, and lethal maneuvers to strike their enemies down with astonishing speed.
    The bolded parts completely go against what I was lookign for, so hwo am I supposed to conclude that this is a ranged dps char?

    Quote Originally Posted by Specialisation
    The Dark Side holds dangerous secrets – and immense power for those
    who dare to uncover them. The Sorcerer reaches into the darkest corners
    of the Force to harness volatile energies that can wreak devastation
    on his enemies and bolster or even heal his allies. The air around
    a Sorcerer crackles with dark energy, and those foolish enough to
    get in a Sorcerer’s way soon learn a new definition of suffering.
    This from the Sorcerer specialisation, I mean, the NAME says ranged DPS, but the text tells me nothign at all, except that I'll probably be usign dark energy. It also again talks about healing, if it talks about healing how am I supposed to knwo if it's a damage dealer that can heal or a healer that can DPS. I don't know that!


    You can look at my post history on this site I'm not looking to troll you, I said that cause I had in mind to make a thread called "Melee wars?", cause I couldn't find any recent info about classes, that's trolling to me and not my style, innocent though it is.

    I just was seriously put off by the lack of info on all the sites. There is no simple page or wording anywhere to say, this class can do this and that and the other, not even on the fan sites like Darth Hater. I mean that is stupid is it not? I shouldn't have to go out and search for that stuff.

    But I can see that we may end up in a flamewar if we keep this discussion up. Just wanted to let you see and know I wasn't trolling or looking to start a fight, just genuinely disappointed about the game, and thought I'd share for others that maybe ran into the same problem

  8. #8
    Scarab Lord Trollsbane's Avatar
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    Come on now. =) Yes, my info post is huge, but you can't blame that for a reason not to find the info and instead blame the NDA. And the official forums has a sticky of known info for the game. All the answers are there, just like my huge post.

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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by xskarma View Post
    <SNIP>
    If I'm understanding you correctly - what you are looking for is a detailed analysis of how the classes play? As in, you want to see the Sith Sorcerer trees, see the skills, etc. If that's what you are looking for, then - game is still in Beta, and it is still being fine-tuned - those trees, as they stand now, are not necessarily what you will see in the game. Even then, I have found sites that do have some of that information out there (just don't trust it, because until they release it officially, I promise you it IS changing)



    If you are purely looking to see a basic of which class is ranged dps/ melee dps/ heals / tank - seriously, that is in the huge ass thread, and all you have to do is open it, click CTRL + F and search on the word "class"

    Copy/Pasted from that thread:

    Republic
    -Jedi Knight:
    Jedi Sentinel (Roles: Close Range Damage Dealing. Wields dual Lightsabers)
    Jedi Guardian (Roles: Close Range Damage Dealing, Tanking. Wields a single Lightsaber)

    -Jedi Consular:
    Jedi Shadow (Roles: Close - Mid Range Damage Dealing, Tanking)
    Jedi Sage (Roles: Mid-Long Range Damage Dealing, Healing)


    -Trooper:
    Vanguard (Roles: Close - Mid Range Damage Dealing, Ranged Tanking)
    Commando (Roles: Mid - Long Range Damage Dealing, Healing)

    -Smuggler:
    Gunslinger (Roles: Mid - Long Range Damage Dealing, wields dual pistols)
    Scoundrel (Roles: Close - Mid Range Damage Dealing, Healing, wields scatter gun)

    Empire
    -Sith Warrior:
    Sith Marauder (Roles: Close Range Damage Dealing. Wields dual Lightsabers)
    Sith Juggernaut (Roles: Close Range Damage Dealing, Tanking. Wields a single Lightsaber)

    -Sith Inquisitor:
    Sith Assassin (Roles: Close - Mid Range Damage Dealing, Tanking)
    Sith Sorcerer (Roles: Mid-Long Range Damage Dealing, Healing)

    -Bounty Hunter:
    Mercenary (Roles: Mid - Long Range Damage Dealing, Healing)
    PowerTech (Roles: Close - Mid Range Damage Dealing, Tanking)

    -Imperial Agent:
    Sniper (Roles: Mid - Long Range Damage Dealing)
    Operative (Roles: Close - Mid Range Damage Dealing, Healing)


    http://www.swtor.com/news/blog/20110408
    http://www.swtor.com/info/systems/advanced-classes
    http://www.swtor.com/info/holonet/classes
    Last edited by Trollsbane; 2011-11-03 at 08:30 PM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Sollis View Post
    If I'm understanding you correctly - what you are looking for is a detailed analysis of how the classes play? As in, you want to see the Sith Sorcerer trees, see the skills, etc. If that's what you are looking for, then - game is still in Beta, and it is still being fine-tuned - those trees, as they stand now, are not necessarily what you will see in the game. Even then, I have found sites that do have some of that information out there (just don't trust it, because until they release it officially, I promise you it IS changing)



    If you are purely looking to see a basic of which class is ranged dps/ melee dps/ heals / tank - seriously, that is in the huge ass thread, and all you have to do is open it, click CTRL + F and search on the word "class"

    Copy/Pasted from that thread:

    Republic
    -Jedi Knight:
    Jedi Sentinel (Roles: Close Range Damage Dealing. Wields dual Lightsabers)
    Jedi Guardian (Roles: Close Range Damage Dealing, Tanking. Wields a single Lightsaber)

    -Jedi Consular:
    Jedi Shadow (Roles: Close - Mid Range Damage Dealing, Tanking)
    Jedi Sage (Roles: Mid-Long Range Damage Dealing, Healing)


    -Trooper:
    Vanguard (Roles: Close - Mid Range Damage Dealing, Ranged Tanking)
    Commando (Roles: Mid - Long Range Damage Dealing, Healing)

    -Smuggler:
    Gunslinger (Roles: Mid - Long Range Damage Dealing, wields dual pistols)
    Scoundrel (Roles: Close - Mid Range Damage Dealing, Healing, wields scatter gun)

    Empire
    -Sith Warrior:
    Sith Marauder (Roles: Close Range Damage Dealing. Wields dual Lightsabers)
    Sith Juggernaut (Roles: Close Range Damage Dealing, Tanking. Wields a single Lightsaber)

    -Sith Inquisitor:
    Sith Assassin (Roles: Close - Mid Range Damage Dealing, Tanking)
    Sith Sorcerer (Roles: Mid-Long Range Damage Dealing, Healing)

    -Bounty Hunter:
    Mercenary (Roles: Mid - Long Range Damage Dealing, Healing)
    PowerTech (Roles: Close - Mid Range Damage Dealing, Tanking)

    -Imperial Agent:
    Sniper (Roles: Mid - Long Range Damage Dealing)
    Operative (Roles: Close - Mid Range Damage Dealing, Healing)


    http://www.swtor.com/news/blog/20110408
    http://www.swtor.com/info/systems/advanced-classes
    http://www.swtor.com/info/holonet/classes
    Yeah this was the kind of info I was looking for, I just didn't think about it, just saw that it was a huge thread and didn't even look at the first post, it would have saved me a few hours of looking for reliable info. >.<

    And I don't mind having talent trees and such layed out in front of me, don't need that per se, but for example GW2 has several people writing about it, what tactics the class will be using in various scenarios, what their strenghts and weaknesses are, all that jazz. I could not find very much usefull and recent info about it for SW. I mean normally official sites/forums and 1 or 2 fan sites + MMO-C is all I need for that, hell I don't even have to look fo rit cause it comes my way naturally.

    But this info is a start, thanks for that, might do a search class by class if I can motivate myself tomorrow, really done with it for today.

  11. #11
    Field Marshal Shonough's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xskarma View Post
    <Snip>
    Another great tool, very visual one even, to help you get an idea of how the classes work are the official progression videos (granted not all are out yet, but the ones that are give a nice synopsis of what you can expect from that class and it's AC's).

    I believe all of them can be found in Troll's uber-post, but I'll link them below for convenience because it is my desire to convert you to TOR not turn you away =p. Do not underestimate the power of SW:TOR!

    Smuggler - http://www.swtor.com/media/trailers/...er-progression

    Bounty Hunter - http://www.swtor.com/media/trailers/...er-progression

    Trooper - http://www.swtor.com/media/trailers/trooper-progression

    Sith Warrior - http://www.swtor.com/media/trailers/...or-progression

    Jedi Knight - http://www.swtor.com/media/trailers/...ht-progression

  12. #12
    The bolded parts completely go against what I was lookign for, so hwo am I supposed to conclude that this is a ranged dps char?
    Maybe you didn't look or don't comprehend how the game works.

    Each class has two advanced classes, which are not specs like wow but rather two unique classes themselves. Then those advanced classes have trees with two fairly different playstyle class abilities, i.e. healer or dps tree. So while the sorcerers can heal, ranged dps, or melee, playstyle is determined by class--> advanced class--> talent tree points.

    There its plenty of info easily available, so I don't know why you're not getting it.

    NDA is purely still on for the purpose of protecting the story pig a game based heavily on .... Story!
    Since the depth of character decisions hadn't been seen in mmo like this, the nda lift timeline of previous games has no validity.

  13. #13
    Pit Lord philefluxx's Avatar
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    Maybe this will help

    http://swtor.wikia.com/wiki/Mercenary

    This is the BountyHunter Mercenary. If you scroll past the description at the top you will see Primary Focus.

    Look at all the AC's, they will list healer/dps/tank/rangedps if that AC has a viable tree to perform that roll.

    ---------- Post added 2011-11-03 at 02:39 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by tripplebooya View Post
    Maybe you didn't look or don't comprehend how the game works.

    Each class has two advanced classes, which are not specs like wow but rather two unique classes themselves. Then those advanced classes have trees with two fairly different playstyle class abilities, i.e. healer or dps tree. So while the sorcerers can heal, ranged dps, or melee, playstyle is determined by class--> advanced class--> talent tree points.

    There its plenty of info easily available, so I don't know why you're not getting it.

    NDA is purely still on for the purpose of protecting the story pig a game based heavily on .... Story!
    Since the depth of character decisions hadn't been seen in mmo like this, the nda lift timeline of previous games has no validity.
    I think the AC's are throwing the OP, many people dont realize they are classes and not specs and that there is a spec within that class.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by philefluxx View Post
    Maybe this will help

    http://swtor.wikia.com/wiki/Mercenary

    This is the BountyHunter Mercenary. If you scroll past the description at the top you will see Primary Focus.

    Look at all the AC's, they will list healer/dps/tank/rangedps if that AC has a viable tree to perform that roll.

    ---------- Post added 2011-11-03 at 02:39 PM ----------



    I think the AC's are throwing the OP, many people dont realize they are classes and not specs and that there is a spec within that class.
    Agreed, but its soooo easy to find info that makes that crystal clear

  15. #15
    Pit Lord philefluxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tripplebooya View Post
    Agreed, but its soooo easy to find info that makes that crystal clear
    True. But I really think people are just gun shy and this NDA scares them because lets face it, how many titles have come out in the past 4 years that we were promised would be game changing titles? How many have actually lived up to it?

    I dont think the OP really had a hard time finding the info, I think that the OP has a really hard time believing what he is being told with the NDA still in effect.

  16. #16
    If you want talent trees, search for 'tor guild talent calculator' in goggle and its some Aussie linked page with them, although i dont think its been updated since the late beta build.

    Yes i no its under nda, sorry but i didnt put a hyperlink in

  17. #17
    There's really only two "core dps" classes, in the Jedi knight/sith warrior's DW class and the smuggler/imperial agent's rdps class.

    Every other class gets a second role to work with.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by philefluxx View Post
    Maybe this will help

    http://swtor.wikia.com/wiki/Mercenary

    This is the BountyHunter Mercenary. If you scroll past the description at the top you will see Primary Focus.

    Look at all the AC's, they will list healer/dps/tank/rangedps if that AC has a viable tree to perform that roll.

    ---------- Post added 2011-11-03 at 02:39 PM ----------



    I think the AC's are throwing the OP, many people dont realize they are classes and not specs and that there is a spec within that class.
    Those advanced classes were exactly what was throwing me for a loop.

    When I saw that I went back, to see if I had missed it and I had, because it's not under classes, but under game systems, I mean seriously, WHY?

    Why in the world is there no link from the classes, to the advanced classes like they are explained here: http://www.swtor.com/info/systems/advanced-classes

    THAT is what I was looking for, and so it IS on the main site, just in a totally weird place. It still doesn't excuse the fact the NDA is banning you from talking about what the strenghts and weaknesses of the different classes are and how they interact, but had I had this information directly when I was looking at the classes I would have never made this post in the first place and would have happily just grumbled about the NDA, and left it at that.

    Thanks for all the help guys, I'll be going over these "Advanced classes" in some detail and see what I learn

  19. #19
    I know it sucks the nda is still intact for reasons like this but with a game thats different based on class, faction, and choices do you really want class info at the cost of discovery. I'll take the nda over storyline spoilers any day with a game this diverse.
    Last edited by tripplebooya; 2011-11-03 at 10:55 PM.

  20. #20
    Mechagnome Ixator's Avatar
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    did JO just violate the NDA?!?!?

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