Should I switch to unholy or not?

[MustacheSnowglobe]

I'm in a bit of a dilemma. I recently obtained the ilvl 378 2h axe from shannox, and I was wondering if it would be worth it to switch to unholy since I was currently using 2 359 1hers as DW frost. Would there be a dps boost if I switched to unholy? How about if I switched to 2h Frost, or should I just stick with the 2 359s? Thanks everyone.

[JGWentworth]

it depends on what you are comfortable with. Unholy flows differently than Frost does, the faster you grasp that flow the better faster your dps will go up. If you never get the flow Frost will always be better for you. Ultimately DW Frost is more dps and I don't believe 2H Frost is competitive without a Heroic Sulfras.

[WoOmbat]

2H Frost and 2H Unholy are about equal in DPS and the Ilvl diff on the weapons you have is quiet remarkeable, so DW wont be that much better.It prbly depends on your whole gear what specc ist best for you now so iam afraight the only way you can solve this problem is running some Simcraft to find out which specc provides most DPS (dont forget to reforge/gem correct for each specc).
But if you are constantly running FL form now on you will very likely get some Cleavers soon, so it depens on, if its even worth checking the 2H speccs.
Btw i really dont think you should base this decision on what you are comfortable with, DK speccs are all easy to learn and you really should use the one you raid benefits most from, which is the one with highest DPS.

[Kaosbringer]

Just remember that the main reason UH under performs compared to DW Frost is because there are lots of movement and target switching during the current tier. In theory UH should out perform DW Frost by a small margin. However if you feel that you can perform better in UH then you can in DW Frost got for it.

[Projali]

If you're part of a regular raid group, you have to consider the buff differences between the two specs as well.

Is someone providing 10% attack speed, 4% damage debuff? Is someone providing 8% magic damage debuff?

[Invictus9001]

Just to lob this in, as I read about the 2h weapon being involved in the decision-making process... You may also want to consider the "ShadowFrost" build (I think I have the name right, but it's been a while I admit; and, I am not sure how it compares to standard Unholy/Frost Dual Wield. I forget the specifics but it's mainly a Frost-tree spec with some points splashed into Blood and Unholy, with your DPS being done in Unholy presence. I've never tried it myself, but I recall EJ having some mention of it. I'll toss a link to it here -> Shadowfrost 2.0

Not sure if it helps, but it's something else to consider. Hope whatever you decide works out for you.

[Projali]

All DK specs currently use unholy presence. Shadowfrost isn't as much single target dps as dw frost.

Just to lob this in, as I read about the 2h weapon being involved in the decision-making process... You may also want to consider the "ShadowFrost" build (I think I have the name right, but it's been a while I admit; and, I am not sure how it compares to standard Unholy/Frost Dual Wield. I forget the specifics but it's mainly a Frost-tree spec with some points splashed into Blood and Unholy, with your DPS being done in Unholy presence. I've never tried it myself, but I recall EJ having some mention of it. I'll toss a link to it here -> Shadowfrost 2.0

Not sure if it helps, but it's something else to consider. Hope whatever you decide works out for you.

[Valthios]

If you're part of a regular raid group, you have to consider the buff differences between the two specs as well.

Is someone providing 10% attack speed, 4% damage debuff? Is someone providing 8% magic damage debuff?

This^^

If your buffs can be covered and you'd like to do less than optimal DPS, go for it.

[Invictus9001]

All DK specs currently use unholy presence. Shadowfrost isn't as much single target dps as dw frost.

*shrug* As I said, I've never run ShadowFrost, so didn't know how it'd compare. I also am somewhat stuck in the old mindset where using Frost Presence WAS viable with a Frost spec (obviously back in Wrath). I'm also too used to playing Unholy spec and using Unholy presence by default (or tanking in Blood / using Blood Presence).

[Projali]

*shrug* As I said, I've never run ShadowFrost, so didn't know how it'd compare. I also am somewhat stuck in the old mindset where using Frost Presence WAS viable with a Frost spec (obviously back in Wrath). I'm also too used to playing Unholy spec and using Unholy presence by default (or tanking in Blood / using Blood Presence).

Frost presence was our tanking presence in Wrath. Blood was DPS and unholy was more pvp oriented. They swapped blood and frost's benefits in Cataclysm.

[Deleted]

you want to play that you want the most.

so try out both spec.

[Invictus9001]

Frost presence was our tanking presence in Wrath. Blood was DPS and unholy was more pvp oriented. They swapped blood and frost's benefits in Cataclysm.

I left out the fact my character was made on Wrath launch day, and that I tried tanking in Unholy spec at first / moved on to Frost tanking (in Frost Presence obviously) as my off-spec. My main spec was, and still is, Unholy DPS (so very rebel of me). The statement I made (which you'd quoted) was based solely on Cataclysm's changes to making Blood the dedicated tanking tree, instead of Blizzard still trying to splash tanking abilities throughout all 3 trees like that did in Wrath.

[Deleted]

If you play with a caster unholy 2h is better if you play with melee dual weld is better.

[Actual]

2x 359 frost weapons will probably still outperform a 378 unholy weapon unless you have considerable experience with the unholy spec. Truthfully, unholy has a much higher skill cap and is a lot harder to play to full potential than frost and due to this alone you're likely to perform better with 2x 359s.

As for dw frost vs. 2h frost, it's a harder choice. DW is currently considered a stronger spec, but with an ilvl gap of 19, it may be slightly better for you to go 2h. 2h isn't very competitive against dw frost even with H Sulfuras (e.g. two people of equal skill, one with 2 391 weapons and the other with a 397 Sulfuras, the dw will perform better), but at a difference of 8 ilvl it is starting to become competitive, so 19 ilvl will most likely make it so that 2h is better.

(Sorry for the jumbled sentences, it's 2am and I'm tired)

tl;dr - 2H frost is most likely your best choice.

[Draknalor186]

go 2 hander frost?

[Deleted]

2h frost is just awful unless you're fighting mage teams. But as melee cleave you never go for mage in first place

[Jinto]

Just remember that the main reason UH under performs compared to DW Frost is because there are lots of movement and target switching during the current tier. In theory UH should out perform DW Frost by a small margin. However if you feel that you can perform better in UH then you can in DW Frost got for it.

In T13 yes, currently in T12 no.

[RedFlame]

learn the rotation, and try unholy first. in the same gear, i find i do about 2k more dps as 2h unholy as opposed to 2h frost.

[rigoremortis]

i personally play unholy, but i feel its a harder spec for most people to grasp as it has to do a lot with cd management and when to pop the "super ghoul" and gargoyle to maximize their dps and benefits and such.


imo, it really depends how much time you've spent as unholy, its a lot different than frost. i ms unholy, with a frost offspec, because i find that half the fights, frost can be quite useful (heroic beth spiderlings, rhyo for spread dmg on both legs, rag for multiple meteor control with hb's, etc, etc). so frost certainly has its uses, but i still prefer unholy as it fits my playstyle. i say go with whatever you have the most fun with, but keep in mind the raid buffs and such.


technically speaking, if you know what you're doing, you should outperform 2x 359 frost dw with shannox axe in unholy.


got any questions on unholys setup, rotation, itemization, etc? please feel free to PM me and i will answer them to the best of my abilities.

of my 178 days /played, i imagine 165 of them have been spent playing unholy, lol.