what happened 2 the survivability?

[Deleted]

Hey guys,

I haven't played wow since vanilla. A lot is changed wether we likeit or not. Idlike to have your opinion about the survivability these days in pvp. Today I was checking out pvp and I was shocked how easy it is to survive. Compared to vanilla its just such a different.

People walk around with 140.000 hp and 40% resillience. I asked a rogue friend of mine with pretty decent gear how quickly he could kill an enemy these days. And he said that it took a while. For an example taking a rogues backstab into a plated paladin doesn't give a lot result. The paladin loses around 5% hp. While back in vanilla it would've been around 15-20%.

For what I've seen fights take around 3x as long as back in the early days. Today I saw 4 people spamming a paladin and it still took them a minute or so to kill him. Obviously not the most skilled players but still. In my point of view it shouldn't take more then a few seconds. It just seems weird the way it is now. Frostmages outlasting serveral players easily. What happened to the cloth?

Fights take way longer then before. Reason for it is the new spells such as recuperate but also the enormous healthpools and resillience.

Perhaps its just nostalgi, the days where you could actually do serious damage when popping your cooldowns. These days when doing max burst you can't really see anything happen.

How do you guys think about this? What happened to serious damage? Or am I missing something? In my opinion pvp would be alot more skill based when healthpools were lower.

[TJ]

Ret cds, frost mage shatter, rogue dance, dk pillar of frost, ele shamans with elemental mastery etc still tear through people if left alone. 140000 hp doesnt really mean anything when the damage has been hugely increased as well.

[-Cynical-]

They wanted to make it so you would live longer with Cata but they horribly messed that up.

[rofltroll]

You can still do serious damage with CD's, when used properly. And yes they slowed combat down a ton with Cata and I for one am so glad they did. Play lower level PVP and it feels old school still, and I can't stand it personally. There's no skill in "who see's who first" (and I'm referring to BG's, I dislike Arena for many reasons so don't even participate there anymore), but now if you get 2 skilled players of equal gear then there is a good amount of back and forth action between them. Obviously this isn't always true depending on the classes involved, but for the most part it is.

The 1 thing that is broke is healing in PVP, it's beyond to strong and needs to be addressed. From the patch notes in 4.3 is looks like it is also.

[blaqkmagick]

I like it better. It requires more skill in my opinion. For example in 3's you have to CC a player, force cooldowns (like spriest's dispersion or pally bubble) and then blow CD's and nuke them down.
Way more fun and entertaining than LOLWindfury Proc

[iamthedevil]

I wish it was anything like what you were saying OP, however, in most cases it is the complete opposite. People STILL die to quickly and damage is too high. (except for some classes, but that is Blizzards shitty balancing ie warriors.)

Vanilla PVP was even worse though.

So i can't say i agree with anything you are saying at all.

[kremblin89]

I dunno I have seen a rogue take 5-6 people and not die... and eventually killing all of them.

[Blueobelisk]

Higher survivability is better, it means that you show even more skill that you can win a long battle. Any idiot can burst quickly in the beginning to win.

[PetersenIII]

I wish it was anything like what you were saying OP, however, in most cases it is the complete opposite. People STILL die to quickly and damage is too high. (except for some classes, but that is Blizzards shitty balancing ie warriors.)

Vanilla PVP was even worse though.

So i can't say i agree with anything you are saying at all.

Put everyone in PvE gear and it pretty much is vanilla PvP.

[Zigen]

I dunno I have seen a rogue take 5-6 people and not die... and eventually killing all of them.

Im calling lies on that one. That's total crap, could never happen unless the rogue was 85 in full BiS and the people trying to kill him were 75 or so.

[DiscoGhost]

Im calling lies on that one. That's total crap, could never happen unless the rogue was 85 in full BiS and the people trying to kill him were 75 or so.

ive seen a mage solo 5 people at gurubashi. granted the mage was glad and the other 5 were probably retarded, but still 5v1 lol

[Cairm]

Still too hard to kill ''some class's''. I play a rogue, and while some class are easy as hell to kill. Some others are just impossible, unless retarded. I count here frost mages and holy palli. Jesus it's not skill its just unbalance.

[DiscoGhost]

i've killed some pretty stupid mages on my rogue at the 1500 brackets, it was uber boss.

[Jothium]

If you can't kill shit then soz bro...
Learn your class then...
Me(ret) and frost dk nuking shit in 20secs in 2v2...
Even with an enemy healer...

[Deleted]

Overall I like it compared to the previous expansions, though what I don't like is all the self healing going across the board:

Ret paladins 80k+ WoGs on team mates
Rogues' recup
Hunters pet-heal

It's late and I'm tired, so I might've missed out one when it comes to classes who got a huge boost in survivability and gained a reliable-self healing ability. Get rid of all that for a starter, and I'll enjoy PvP a lot more.

[Deleted]

Ret paladins 80k+ WoGs on team mates
Rogues' recup
Hunters pet-heal

It's late and I'm tired, so I might've missed out one when it comes to classes who got a huge boost in survivability and gained a reliable-self healing ability. Get rid of all that for a starter, and I'll enjoy PvP a lot more.

Are you shitting me? Hunter survivability is deplorable and the... Pet heal? Is that honestly an argument? Going to go ahead and pretend that didn't happen and was only there by mistake due to you being tired and it being late.

[Dermi]

I loved the pvp back in vanilla, but thats only cause I was shit and didn't know what the hell I was doing. In TBC I got way better and loved resilience and the survivability that we had gotten, been loving it ever since. Recently tried Rift and quit because the pvp felt like vanilla pvp, nobody showing any signs of skill just random zerging.

If you like that I guess you have no skill to show.

[omniscience]

People walk around with 140.000 hp and 40% resillience. I asked a rogue friend of mine with pretty decent gear how quickly he could kill an enemy these days. And he said that it took a while. For an example taking a rogues backstab into a plated paladin doesn't give a lot result. The paladin loses around 5% hp. While back in vanilla it would've been around 15-20%.

For what I've seen fights take around 3x as long as back in the early days. Today I saw 4 people spamming a paladin and it still took them a minute or so to kill him. Obviously not the most skilled players but still. In my point of view it shouldn't take more then a few seconds. It just seems weird the way it is now. Frostmages outlasting serveral players easily. What happened to the cloth?

Fights take way longer then before. Reason for it is the new spells such as recuperate but also the enormous healthpools and resillience.

Perhaps its just nostalgi, the days where you could actually do serious damage when popping your cooldowns. These days when doing max burst you can't really see anything happen.

How do you guys think about this? What happened to serious damage? Or am I missing something? In my opinion pvp would be alot more skill based when healthpools were lower.

1. I doubt it did that on equal bad/good geared players.
2. You mention it yourself. Bad players play bad and do bad damage and have bad understanding of how to play good but good understanding to play bad!
3. You're big time nostalgia. I dont know about you but I sure didn't find it fun to get ambush/backstabbed to death in a matter of 2-5 seconds just because I played a cloth class.
4. Like TJ and Jothium writes... Try entering 2v2, meet a dual dps team and see how quick they can fuck you up. Then you'll change your mind about "serious damage"

[Deleted]

Are you shitting me? Hunter survivability is deplorable and the... Pet heal? Is that honestly an argument? Going to go ahead and pretend that didn't happen and was only there by mistake due to you being tired and it being late.

No, I'm deadly serious.

A good BM hunter who knows how to take advantage of his max range and what he's doing can be a pain in the ass with it.

Sure, it's nothing compared to a WoG or a Rogues recup, but it's along the lines and is considered a self-heal - an ability that they didn't have untill Cataclysm just like all the other classes who all of a sudden recieved it. Something that I dislike, and wanted removed, period.

[clault]

Hey guys,

I haven't played wow since vanilla. A lot is changed wether we likeit or not.

We advanced 25 levels since then and gear has gotten increasingly higher with each expac. I would say as the game progresses through its life, it would only make sense that the max level would get stronger and stronger. How would you feel if you jumped back into it and saw it was the exact same game. Plus now gear if scaled so drastically at 85. When I dinged 85 and ha d all the cata quest gear i got torn apart in BGs. get a PvP item in every slot and I can bring down under geared people in BGs in seconds. People who are better geared are around the same are a challenge and require me to save my CDs for pressing times, such as someone coming to help this player making it 1v2 . It's a lot less fast paced but at the same time its still fast paced.