Challenging fights

[Blznsmri]

I was talking about mechanics such as in the Sicaron or Drusella fights. You are directly responsible for the success or failure of the entire group. That won't ever happen in DEs.

Oh hey, Sally Standsinfire has a 2 min run back but I can go about the business of the DE unperturbed to win this? Then who cares. Meh.

But hold on, Sally is negatively effecting the encounter through poor play such that I can't go about the business of the DE to win this?

Oh. Hell. No.

I'm sure the events will scale down once a participant stops participating/ gets out of range of the event. So if they're "Corpse Running" then they wont count and the event will start to scale back down.

[sacrypheyes]

I was talking about mechanics such as in the Sicaron or Drusella fights. You are directly responsible for the success or failure of the entire group. That won't ever happen in DEs.

Oh hey, Sally Standsinfire has a 2 min run back but I can go about the business of the DE unperturbed to win this? Then who cares. Meh.

But hold on, Sally is negatively effecting the encounter through poor play such that I can't go about the business of the DE to win this?

Oh. Hell. No.

i just can't get what you want really.

you don't want some jerk to be able to ruin your big DE fight but at the same time want to be able to feel "responsible" for the success (or failure) of an event.

i might be wrong but i feel like those two are mutually exclusive.

[Fencers]

If anything thing mechanics like what you want discourage new plays and promote a "make one fuckin mistake and we will make sure you will never play on this sever again" type attitude. And for a game that wants to have the community (on a sever at least) stand as one and work together like one big guild. Those types of fights seem very counterproductive.

Yea, I don't think this multiple guilds thing or unified server meta-concept is a good thing at all either.

There was a great letter on the last Guild Cast that expressed how much of a deterrent that is to serious guilds/players of PVE in MMOs. Which was said.

Natch, different games aim for different markets. Nothing wrong with that approach at all. Is what it is though- DEs can only provide so much and still allow Joe Funspec to play alongside Billy Elitist. Kind of a casual's paradise.

[sacrypheyes]

casual =/= noob

well, my 2 cents...

[ashburg]

well i guess its a good thing blizzard decided who the game is for now we dont have to worry about the elite any more its made for us noobs who consider the dam game way to hard to finish hell my guild is still trying to clear fire lands after 2 nerfs we still need a 3rd think god for easy mode in 4.3 and panda

[Blznsmri]

well i guess its a good thing blizzard decided who the game is for now we dont have to worry about the elite any more its made for us noobs who consider the dam game way to hard to finish hell my guild is still trying to clear fire lands after 2 nerfs we still need a 3rd think god for easy mode in 4.3 and panda

So you make an account to post something in the wrong subforum?

That's what it looks like.

[Deleted]

I'm sure the events will scale down once a participant stops participating/ gets out of range of the event. So if they're "Corpse Running" then they wont count and the event will start to scale back down.

Problem solved.

[ddsad2212]

I think were some of us are coming from , in terms of high end PvE is that, if GW2 truely hard content is out doors, players will ruin it for competitive guilds(well i cant say ruin it its there boss to tbh) in alot of way, this is due to the fact that they can just run in, and do dmg to the boss, and similarly you can corpase run when you die. What we are saying is to prevent this and make the game fun for all you need the games hardest content to be put into dungeons, imagine for a second yoggy even normal mode been an out door event, you could be the best guild in the world by a wide margin and never kill it, due to all the people who failed to the insanity mechanic running around killing you. And similarly if people, who lets face are not good enough, go to a boss it increase in difficulty , that usally counter by the number of people but because they are not good enough as it is, then the boss will just jump X% in difficulty. To be honest i dont want any hardcore competitive PvE envirment , i dont care if thats there or not, just give us hard fun dungeons!!

[Eorayn]

I love the idea of fighting a world boss, moving across the continents Like that example of a Norn Worm

[Jovanaar]

Okay let me set stuff straight here, I've noticed some posts regarding high-end content which shouldn't be doable by random people and only high-content PvE guilds.

this is NOT what I'm trying to get out of this topic. Fights should be challenging, fun. There should never be fights like; "LOL I'M STANDING HERE HITTING 1,1,1, THIS SO EASY!" I want people to actually see what's happening instead of everyone hitting some buttons that does damage. Moving away from stuff, help allies when needed.

Also there should be fights where people who doesn't do fights correctly, they would die. Please be reminded that, there's a timer in some fights, for instance; "Kill this big dragon before he destroys the town, and in 12 minutes, he will. You will see him fly up, and ignite the fricken village into flames".

So is there anything wrong here? No, will people be frustrated whenever ANY Dynamic Event will fail? Yes, always. Should fights fail whenever someone dies? No. Could event fail if people die multiple times by standing in fires or like I explained falling rocks and spiking stalagmites? Yes it could, people should be able to fail against a Elite Event if they aren't good enough, what reason what so ever. That's why these event's should scale up to many people, because doing fights like these with 10-15 people, and people will kill themselves, you can get frustrated by other people because you will most likely fail the event, in a 50+ event, if you have people who will kill themselves by not moving, or whatever. You might still have 30 people who could finish the event, and get a gold medal, the others could get a bronze medal when they run back to the fight after being resurrected by the Asura Portal.


TL;DR -- Fight's should be challenging, there will always be people who fail on stuff, these things should NOT mean fights are impossible to do without a guild (could be just hard) Because if you don't, you most likely get a gold medal, and they will get none or a Bronze.

---------- Post added 2011-11-09 at 11:53 AM ----------

I think were some of us are coming from , in terms of high end PvE is that, if GW2 truely hard content is out doors, players will ruin it for competitive guilds(well i cant say ruin it its there boss to tbh) in alot of way, this is due to the fact that they can just run in, and do dmg to the boss, and similarly you can corpase run when you die. What we are saying is to prevent this and make the game fun for all you need the games hardest content to be put into dungeons, imagine for a second yoggy even normal mode been an out door event, you could be the best guild in the world by a wide margin and never kill it, due to all the people who failed to the insanity mechanic running around killing you. And similarly if people, who lets face are not good enough, go to a boss it increase in difficulty , that usally counter by the number of people but because they are not good enough as it is, then the boss will just jump X% in difficulty. To be honest i dont want any hardcore competitive PvE envirment , i dont care if thats there or not, just give us hard fun dungeons!!

You seem very obsessed by Dungeon high content, does this mean people with high PvE guilds should be able to do Dungeons? Because THAT's were the challenging part should be? I'd say false. If the only hard part of Guild Wars 2 is inside the dungeons, anyone who's looking for a challenge will endless grind those Dungeons and that's what this game is not about. Dungeons are just another part of the world and also challenging, I'd say that the exploration mode of the dungeon are the hardest part of the game, but World Bosses should not be easy at all.

[ddsad2212]

@Bloodhunter . I agree i was just on about where the games hardest content would be, ofc hard fun world bosses will be in it, they even said there will be hard world boss in eilite zones(whichi havent heard much about apart from the fact that they will be there for max level players)

[Durzlla]

I think were some of us are coming from , in terms of high end PvE is that, if GW2 truely hard content is out doors, players will ruin it for competitive guilds(well i cant say ruin it its there boss to tbh) in alot of way, this is due to the fact that they can just run in, and do dmg to the boss, and similarly you can corpase run when you die. What we are saying is to prevent this and make the game fun for all you need the games hardest content to be put into dungeons, imagine for a second yoggy even normal mode been an out door event, you could be the best guild in the world by a wide margin and never kill it, due to all the people who failed to the insanity mechanic running around killing you. And similarly if people, who lets face are not good enough, go to a boss it increase in difficulty , that usally counter by the number of people but because they are not good enough as it is, then the boss will just jump X% in difficulty. To be honest i dont want any hardcore competitive PvE envirment , i dont care if thats there or not, just give us hard fun dungeons!!

Well to me it sounds like yogg would be a lot more challenging as a world event, just think of it in an rp standpoint, not -everyone- is going to be strong enough mentally to not be driven insane by him... Or by a pve standpoint and think of them as "many whelps, Handle it!!"

[Jovanaar]

Well to me it sounds like yogg would be a lot more challenging as a world event, just think of it in an rp standpoint, not -everyone- is going to be strong enough mentally to not be driven insane by him... Or by a pve standpoint and think of them as "many whelps, Handle it!!"

Or think it this way.. how would 10 people be able to kill an old god? Or defeat the Lich King? Or kill Deathwing? It doesn't make any sense... these fights belong in the open world.

[Durzlla]

Or think it this way.. how would 10 people be able to kill an old god? Or defeat the Lich King? Or kill Deathwing? It doesn't make any sense... these fights belong in the open world.

I know right? I also never understood how in wow bringing less people to the same fight made it.... Easier? (10 man raid vs 25) but they changed that so now their = but scale...

Oh just imagine how BA it would've been to fight lich king and sindragosa together in a DE!!

[Mif]

Slightly OT, but relevant when it comes to fights being realistic.
Despite the fact that in wow we continually fought boss that we barely came up to the knee of, only Gnome attack animations are of an upward style

[Jovanaar]

I know right? I also never understood how in wow bringing less people to the same fight made it.... Easier? (10 man raid vs 25) but they changed that so now their = but scale...

Oh just imagine how BA it would've been to fight lich king and sindragosa together in a DE!!

That would be Badass!

[Durzlla]

That would be Badass!

I remember being thoroughly disappointed by the lack of a huge undead army during the lich king fight...

[Valeron]

I find most "boss" fights a huge disappointment from a scale perspective. The battle versus the Lich King should have been massive, with armies fighting each other. Instead we just fight an oversized human with different phase mechanics. It's not just WoW that does this but almost every single mmo boss fight. You would think an mmo would be a perfect platform to design fights with armies in mind.

[Jovanaar]

I find most "boss" fights a huge disappointment from a scale perspective. The battle versus the Lich King should have been massive, with armies fighting each other. Instead we just fight an oversized human with different phase mechanics. It's not just WoW that does this but almost every single mmo boss fight. You would think an mmo would be a perfect platform to design fights with armies in mind.

Exactly, the exact same reason why these fights in GW2 should be in open area's. I still have faith in Zhaitan since it will be an encounter, nothing states we'll actually fight/kill him. If we kill him in a 5 man Dungeon with the help of some 'superheroes' I will be disappoint.

I'd say it again, if Sally Standfire fails on the fight, it will be Sally's problem, and Sally will get no medal or a Bronze medal (or whatever the mech. is for giving out medals).

If not only Sally, but 19 other Sally's out of a total of 25 people.. the remaining 5 Sally Notstandinginfires, will fail as well. Fights should be challenging but it's should not mean if someone dies/fails, everyone would. When a DE is being failed, a new one will appear in responds to the other and we will continue with that one.

[Deleted]

Alas I don't perfectly know how the Guild Wars 2 world looks... I don't even know its name!

But I can make an event and hope such a part of the world exists:
-so event happens in some caves
-at first you can hear some screeching and suddently some tunnels open
-from there... some kind of giant worms pour out, and they have 3 heads each.
-and you need to support Asura while they build some special cannon for them along with the Charr (I understood there are the more "tehnical races")
-you need to support the Sylvari while they try to keep the worm heads on the ground with forest magic
-you need to help the Norn and the Humans channel their gods and spirits against the worms

-now if you try to attack the worms without helping the races, and you do succed in taking out a head, 3 more pop out, like hydras, so you need to work together and help the races
-once you have helped either of the three parts of the events and even one is good, the worms pop less heads, as in if you kill one only 2 pop if the Asura and the Charr built their cannon and if you also helped the Sylvari only 2 heads pop.
-note that you can go fight the worms before, but only with npcs can you weaken them, if your npcs die 3 new worms pop, if they don't when it's close to death all the heads of one worm are sort of dazed and no more mini-maggots come

-yes, mini-maggots attack you, along with earth elementals who had their rest troubled by the worm moving and are now enraged attacking everything
-and if you don't stop the worms, they produce cavern falls and some parts of the caverns are isolated from others and you need to carry stones or put explosives or place giant support beams to re-make the giant cave
-you also need to rescue people trapped under rocks, and send them bandages through cracks while you move rocks
-also you can help get parts for building cranes to lift the boulders

Ok, I think I wrote enough, I have more ideas, but I'll write them another time when it's not 3 am in the morning