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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Merendel View Post
    That is a danger but not that likely IMO. More likely DE's will fail most often to either nobody being there or folks just flat out ignoreing key mechanics for long enough that it times out. one or two bads will just be labled as non participants and ignored by the scaleing.
    Yea, I agree. Somewhat what I was saying in the other DE related thread:
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post14135711

    There can't (and likely won't) be any true consequence to a public raid/group due to bad play of others. Because if there was serious consequence it would make the game basically unplayable. Difficulty will probably be relaxed & scalable enough to allow actual, um, playability given the general chaos of 20+ people running around with varying skill levels and attention spans.

    Which is about what I expect challenge wise for DEs on live servers and more or less the best way to approach them; Jump in, jump out. Take a bathroom break. Kill stuff. Have fun.

    DEs as fun things to do instead of static world dullness.

  2. #22
    The Lightbringer Malthurius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    Yea, I agree. Somewhat what I was saying in the other DE related thread:
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post14135711

    There can't (and likely won't) be any true consequence to a public raid/group due to bad play of others. Because if there was serious consequence it would make the game basically unplayable. Difficulty will probably be relaxed & scalable enough to allow actual, um, playability given the general chaos of 20+ people running around with varying skill levels and attention spans.

    Which is about what I expect challenge wise for DEs on live servers and more or less the best way to approach them; Jump in, jump out. Take a bathroom break. Kill stuff. Have fun.

    DEs as fun things to do instead of static world dullness.
    I can't say anything about how hard DEs will be, but they do have consequences if you fail to do them. Say if you fail to stop centaurs raiding a village, the vendors will be gone and you won't have that safe haven, it also deactivates the fast travel warp there. Of course these consequences don't stop you from playing, they make life less convenient.

    Harder DEs can have lesser consequences but greater rewards to keep the game from feeling cheap when a rag tag group of scrubs fail at this elite event that was really difficult. No one really suffers because of it, but the rewards are kind of wasted until the event chain cycles back around in god knows how long.

    You also have to keep in mind that DEs = Quests in GW2.
    Last edited by Malthurius; 2011-11-09 at 06:00 AM.
    "Questions are for those seeking answers. Those who have answers are those who have asked questions." -Mike R. (Malthurius)

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthurius View Post
    I can't say anything about how hard DEs will be, but they do have consequences if you fail to do them. Say if you fail to stop centaurs raiding a village, the vendors will be gone and you won't have that safe haven, it also deactivates the fast travel warp there. Of course these consequences don't stop you from playing, they make life less convenient.

    Harder DEs can have lesser consequences but greater rewards to keep the game from feeling cheap when a rag tag group of scrubs fail at this elite event that was really difficult. No one really suffers because of it, but the rewards are kind of wasted until the event chain cycles back around in god knows how long.

    You also have to keep in mind that DEs = Quests in GW2.
    I am aware of what DEs in GW2 are intended as and how they work conceptually. Explanation is unnecessary.

    I meant consequence to other players/allies rather clearly if you read the context of what I was speaking on. The possibly of baddies wiping out the raid/group because they are well, bad players, will be low-to-none. The DEs taking alternate steps due to failing the goals of a DE or successful goals is not really what I was talking about- although that is sorta awesome if Anet pull it off on live.

    I have long wished for a contemporary game where the course of play was meaningful. EQ1 was rather static but at least what you did (&how) mattered somewhat. Since then we got... kinda garbage questing/game worlds.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    I am aware of what DEs in GW2 are intended as and how they work conceptually. Explanation is unnecessary.

    I meant consequence to other players/allies rather clearly if you read the context of what I was speaking on. The possibly of baddies wiping out the raid/group because they are well, bad players, will be low-to-none. The DEs taking alternate steps due to failing the goals of a DE or successful goals is not really what I was talking about- although that is sorta awesome if Anet pull it off on live.

    I have long wished for a contemporary game where the course of play was meaningful. EQ1 was rather static but at least what you did (&how) mattered somewhat. Since then we got... kinda garbage questing/game worlds.
    I agree with this. My enjoyment level of anything in a game, whether its questing or DE, is greatly increased if I know that failure is a possibility. If 5 people show up at a DE and beat it by playing marginally then it loses a lot of its fun for me. I want a game that requires you to play well in order to succeed, not just show up and stand around killing a few thing waiting for the reward once the nearly guaranteed victory arrives.

    One of my favorite things in (old) WoW was quests that require a high level of skill to pull off successfully. I can remember as a little noob hunter trying to retrieve a quest item guarded by several fairly strong mobs and having to take a moment to plan my attack: send my pet on one, trap another, range kill the caster; and being forced to use various abilities in the proper way in order to succeed at it. If I did it right it was a rewarding feeling, and if I did it wrong I would die and learn and try again. And it was a lot of fun. I hope DE require a similar level of skill, and not just 'rush in, kill the guy, take the item' sort of deal.

  5. #25
    I am Murloc! Mif's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by muchtoohigh View Post
    My enjoyment level of anything in a game, whether its questing or DE, is greatly increased if I know that failure is a possibility.
    1) You can fail a dynamic event in GW2
    2) You cannot fail 99% of the quests in Wow

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Mif View Post
    1) You can fail a dynamic event in GW2
    2) You cannot fail 99% of the quests in Wow
    #1 I know its possible to fail, my question is how bad do you have to be to fail? Can I just show up and spam a few buttons to kill things to win, or do I actually need to play with some skill and thought to win?

    #2 pervading the entire game is why I quit WoW

  7. #27
    The Lightbringer Malthurius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    I am aware of what DEs in GW2 are intended as and how they work conceptually. Explanation is unnecessary.

    I meant consequence to other players/allies rather clearly if you read the context of what I was speaking on. The possibly of baddies wiping out the raid/group because they are well, bad players, will be low-to-none. The DEs taking alternate steps due to failing the goals of a DE or successful goals is not really what I was talking about- although that is sorta awesome if Anet pull it off on live.

    I have long wished for a contemporary game where the course of play was meaningful. EQ1 was rather static but at least what you did (&how) mattered somewhat. Since then we got... kinda garbage questing/game worlds.
    Sorry, you just worded your sentence in a way that I'm not used to seeing, it didn't help that the sentence after "There can't (and likely won't) be any true consequence to a public raid/group due to bad play of others." was really easy to take out of context.

    I can't say a couple of baddies in a group not being able to ruin your experience is a bad thing. If they are really bad their presence won't even effect scaling because they wouldn't be contributing per se. Doesn't mean a group of well spoken players can't fail a DE.

    ---------- Post added 2011-11-09 at 08:29 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by muchtoohigh View Post
    #1 I know its possible to fail, my question is how bad do you have to be to fail? Can I just show up and spam a few buttons to kill things to win, or do I actually need to play with some skill and thought to win?
    It's yet to be seen, really can't say until release, and even then difficulty is something that can be tweaked after launch. But if you look at that little lvl 1 intro into the game, they teach you the basics of gameplay right away. No, not looting and equiping your skills, but evading hazards and being productive in game combat. With that precaution to teach the player this, I would hope that you would need some level of skill, the skills they teach you in the first 5 minutes of game play.
    Last edited by Malthurius; 2011-11-09 at 08:31 AM.
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  8. #28
    Fluffy Kitten Bloodhunter's Avatar
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    Please do some more investigation on Wiki's, Reports, Interview and the official website before asking silly questions. =)

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  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by muchtoohigh View Post
    #1 I know its possible to fail, my question is how bad do you have to be to fail? Can I just show up and spam a few buttons to kill things to win, or do I actually need to play with some skill and thought to win?
    How hard it is to fail will varry grately as not all DE's are the same. While there are those big dragon fights there are also DE's that are go gather the shiny pieces of metal scattered around the room and dump em in the forge for me. DE's can potentialy run the entire spectrum between the two extreams. Players at the demos could and did fail to kill the dragon fights. At one of the conventions they had a pack of devs and alpha testers log in remoatly and help kill the thing and even then in a few videos the dev comentator had the operators knock off some HP so the fight would end in time. At the next convention they didnt have the devs helping out and demo players failed frequently and badly. So well likely have events that you have to AFK to fail, ones you just have to understand basic game mechanics, ones requireing more advanced knowlage, and ones where most participants need to really know their shit.

    Part of the problem with wow is they do a rather piss poor job of actualy teaching you class mechanics in game. A new player could get all the way to the level cap and have no idea how to funtion in a group let alone a raid. Nothing in their quest structure teaches you your roll in a group, if a newbie learns its because they are either exceptionaly bright or some random person they grouped with took pity on them and showed them the ropes. Even once you learn the basics you all but need a spreadsheet to figure out if your doing everything right. What we've seen of the starter experience at demos indicates that GW2 actualy attempts to teach players how they are expected to play as they go and builds in previous leasons later on. This gives the option of makeing some of the higher level zones quite dificult as playing through the lower areas you are likely to pick up the skills needed to do a passable job later on. If you still cant hack it well the easier stuff is still valid content not greyed out garbage you'll 1shot.

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